How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Finger Pointing......   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Finger Pointing......

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


0 posted 09-06-2005 07:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


...but what is happening here, is a major error and disgrace...and please, when you watch the news....don't you dare let them wiggle their way outa this.

---LeeJ
We should shout in outrage at the delays. And all I saw from the Pres? another idiot photo op.
---MidniteSun



There is no doubt that this tragedy is by far the greatest opportunity the Bush bashers have had yet. This entire ordeal is Bush's fault. I happen to agree that the government could have certainly handled it better but it's all Bush's fault? What he did was turn to Homeland Security and FEMA, who performed less than adequately. By the time that became obvious people were screaming for Bush's head. Is that realistic? Let's put Clinton in office at this time doing the same thing. Would liberals then scream at Clinton or would they symphathize with Bill at how his organizations let him down? Would Hillary be leading an investigation against FEMA, citing a republican plot to cause them to fail, thus pointing an undeserved amount of abuse at her hubby? But in this case, it's all Bush. He should have flown the helicopters, plugged the break in the levee single-handedly and cooked the meals for the victims. Bush could not do everything. He turned it over to those who were supposed to and they came up short.

There are other things to consider, though, for those with minds open enough to listen.

FEMA is not a first line agency. The state and local leaders are....it's their state and they are there and in control. How did they do?

The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery. The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.

General evacuations that may result from an approaching hurricane will be ordered by the Mayor of the City, upon the recommendation of the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness. The area affected by the warning may range from blocks and portions of neighborhoods, to the entire city.

New Orleans Hurricane Emergency Evacuation Standard Operating Procedures


Louisiana Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco...what did she do? You may be surprised...

By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 4, 2005; Page A01

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said.

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.



What all that means is that the federal government requested from her permission to conduct the evacuation of NewOrleans and assume command of the police departments and national guard. I think the federal government could have done it better, especially since the state did almost nothing. She refused. Why? She is a Democrat, afraid of turning control over to a Republican president for political ramifications. She allowed people to die rather than take the chance she might be giving Republicans a political advantage.

(excerpt from Washington Post)

Though experts had long predicted that the city -- which sits mostly below sea level and is surrounded by water -- would face unprecedented devastation after an immense hurricane, they said problems were worsened by a late evacuation order and insufficient emergency shelter for as many as 100,000 people.

Jack Harrald, director of the Institute for Crisis, Disaster and Risk Management at George Washington University, said researchers and academics have for years been studying New Orleans because of its particular vulnerabilities to disaster. In the Natural Hazards Observer in Nov. 2004, Shirley Laska, director of the Center for Hazards Assessment, Response and Technology at the University of New Orleans, predicted a direct hit could produce "conditions never before experienced in a North American disaster" and said evacuation problems would be severe.

"They didn't get people out. There was a late mandatory evacuation, and it's a very exposed position," Harrald said yesterday. "The realization of how serious the situation was not shared in all directions."

Martha A. Madden, former secretary of the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, said she believes a critical systemic breakdown occurred the moment the levee broke. She said contingency plans have been in place for decades but were either ignored or improperly executed.


Mayor Ray Nagin? What did he do (besides scream at the administration?)

Here is a quote from page 13 of the Southeast Louisiana Evacuation Plan, last revised in 2000:

“5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.”

Source: http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf  


Did Mayor Nagin use these resources to get those without means evacuated? Let's have a look at those buses...




"Louisiana Governor
Kathleen Babineaux
Blanco commented, "The buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit."
"According to WWLTV, during a news conference on Sunday before the hurricane struck, Mayor Nagin claimed he "could and would commandeer any property or vehicle it deemed necessary to provide safe shelter or transport for those in need", but hundreds of vehicles, including city and school district buses, went unused.

http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/0605/sports/buses.html?1125879106453

Experts said one of the major problems with the response effort was an ineffective evacuation that began just 24 hours before the storm hit. Though models for such a storm accurately portrayed the circumstances that arose -- a levee breach, flooding, stagnant water, inaccessible portions of the city and large numbers of people unable to leave -- more than 100,000 people remained when the storm hit.


(excerpt from Exempt Media)

There was simply no excuse for those people to be in harms way. There were plenty of buses. The Federal Government told them to evaculate a full two days in advance of the Storm's approach. Mr. Mayor, why didn't you use the buses to get those people out?

The City of New Orleans failed their own people; NOT the Government of the United States. The Mayor didn't do his job. He and his staff are shifting the blame to the Government, hoping that no one notices that THEY are in fact the first stop in the fault line. Read the City of New Orleans disaster plan. Again, look at the "waiting and unused" buses and tell me, "Who screwed up?"


...and where was the Mayor while all this was going on? he ran off to Baton Rouge despite his responsibility to oversee the execution of the emergency-response plans and ranted at Bush for not reacting quickly enough to the disaster.


A politically-biased governor, an ineffective mayor and a levee system that has been ignored for over 40 years. Reb may stick in that Bush cut funding which may or may not have contributed to this, but what about the other 35 years the warnings have been there? If New Orleans were your house with water around you higher that you house sat and, knowing that if it failed you would die....wouldn't you consider that something of a priority? Louisiana hasn't had any money in t he past 40 years for that?

Now, and not unexpectedly, we have the race card being played.

Grammy award-winning rapper/producer Kanye West appeared on a live on-air telethon simulcast on NBC, MSNBC, CNBC and PAX for Hurricane Katrina victims. Live on air, West said "George Bush doesn't care about black people," after saying "America is set up to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible." He also said "the Red Cross is doing everything they can," and stated that he was going to see what the maximum amount of money he can donate is. West criticized government authorities and stated that "They've given them permission to go down and shoot us."

Jesse Jackson was asked about the sniper activity, to which he responded that he felt it had been exaggerated. When asked how long he had been there, he replied "2 hours" so in two hours he was able to come up with that conclusion, while reports were still coming in and policement being shot.

Oprah Winfrey, in her show today, insinuated that ifit were a "white folks" area, relief would have come sooner....needless to say, I have lost all respect for her.


It's not unnatural to be angry. To see bodies floating down the streets of a major city, to have video of the incredible destruction, to hear stories of the suffering endured by so many.....one has to get angry. People got angry after 9-11, too. They couldn't get ahold of Bin Laden so they got mad at the government. In this case, there's no use getting mad at God because he ain't listening, can't get mad at Katrina because she is blowing gentle breezes on lovers' cheeks in northern Canada or somewhere...so go after the government and, for all the folks who have eagerly put Bush in their sites for so many years, go after Bush. People, this was the worst natural disaster in the nation's history. Accept it. Helicopters are not going to fly in over 45 mph weather no matter how much you want them to. Emergency aid cannot appear in seconds no matter how badly it is needed or how badly you want to see it happen. There were areas where inefficiency was obvious and corrections need to be made....we make them and learn. Screaming at one man gets you nowhere and accomplishes nothing....


[This message has been edited by Alicat (09-06-2005 09:13 PM).]

Larry C
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-10-2001
Posts 10765
United States


1 posted 09-06-2005 07:55 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Ya' know anyway you cut it this whole thing is a tragedy. Period. I still think the frequency of hurricanes ends up in a "wolf, wolf" scenario. It's easy to point fingers after the fact but in advance too many think it's survivable.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


2 posted 09-06-2005 07:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

From a state that hosts (or used to host) "hurricane parties", I have to agree with you, Larry.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 09-06-2005 09:00 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
What he did was turn to Homeland Security and FEMA, who performed less than adequately.


"Louisiana is a city under water"

Then let's focus on that.

quote:
Bush could not do everything. He turned it over to those who were supposed to and they came up short.


Then let's, wait, I'm saying the same thing twice.

I will never understand your veneration for this President -- once being a Japanese studies grad. student, I'm often reminded of what was said (or not said) about Hirohito.

But I don't care anymore.

If you want to point fingers at Nagin and other local officials, go ahead (I have the time line over on LR's thread to try to give some context to their actions), but that doesn't leave Brownie and Chertoff off the hook.

quote:
"The responsibility," of government, Churchill told the British Parliament "for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence."

----------------------------


*the two quotes (the first is Chertoff) are from Keith Obermann:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8514671/
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


4 posted 09-06-2005 09:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I thank you for your permission, Brad
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


5 posted 09-06-2005 09:39 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

You're welcome.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


6 posted 09-06-2005 09:42 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

It's not unnatural to be angry. To see bodies floating down the streets of a major city, to have video of the incredible destruction, to hear stories of the suffering endured by so many.....one has to get angry. People got angry after 9-11, too. They couldn't get ahold of Bin Laden so they got mad at the government. In this case, there's no use getting mad at God because he ain't listening, can't get mad at Katrina because she is blowing gentle breezes on lovers' cheeks in northern Canada or somewhere...so go after the government and, for all the folks who have eagerly put Bush in their sites for so many years, go after Bush. People, this was the worst natural disaster in the nation's history. Accept it. Helicopters are not going to fly in over 45 mph weather no matter how much you want them to. Emergency aid cannot appear in seconds no matter how badly it is needed or how badly you want to see it happen. There were areas where inefficiency was obvious and corrections need to be made....we make them and learn. Screaming at one man gets you nowhere and accomplishes nothing....




Anyone who has ever spent any time in or around Lousiana knows about the corruption in that system.  Blanco is finished.  Nagin -- I don't know... they don't call it the Big Easy for nothing.

They will have to face the music for their respective sins Mike.  

There is no denying though that FEMA is a disaster -- and that GW put his cronie buddy in charge of it -- you just don't do that with an agency like FEMA -- you make him an ambassador to some benign country -- you don't give him a job he has no experience with.

Chertoff -- I personally give a pass too -- he's too new to DHS to hang it on him.  But the buck stops at the top.  This agency is supposed to be able to respond to a terrorist attack.  Bin Laden isn't going to sit off the coast a couple of days and give us fair warning.

I would think that it would be the people who voted for the guy who would be the angriest about this -- and many of them are -- it isn't just lefties out there Bush bashing - but there's plenty of it -- and they're definitely trying to pin the fall of Adam and Eve on the guy.  That shouldn't stop the rest of us from carrying on a reasonable discussion about these people who are working for us.

Nice job on the thread -- but... I'll make the same request I always make of Noah -- Please don't center the text for prose -- standard paragraphs are much easier and faster to read.. and.. I want to read what you have to say.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


7 posted 09-06-2005 10:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

On Bush's tenure, FEMA has handled the Washington earthquake, Tropical Storm Allison, Hurrican Lili, Tropical Storm Isidore and, of course, 9-11. I have not heard of any harsh criticisms concerning those events - not saying there weren't any but I don't recall them. If Bin Laden were to strike with a similar tactic, such as blowing the Hoover Dam or hitting a nuclear power station, I daresay FEMA, or any other organization, would be equally as hampered.

I realize, of course, that the buck stops at the top - a phrase the press was eager to use at the White House press conference today - but should the buck always get to the top? If that is the case, then whoever sits in the Oval Office may be blasted for anything that happens in the United States. If a worker at GM does something that makes thousands of cars unsafe, is the President of GM responsible? I suppose so but is it realistic? If your view is that the FEMA Bush nominee is an incompetent oaf that should never have been placed in that position, I certainly understand your outrage. I haven't heard that many negative things about him before this incident to make that statement - but, then, I don't get out much.

Yes, I have spent time in Louisiana. I went to school there, living in both Monroe and Slidell. Bossier City turned this high school kid into a man I knew every building on Bourbon Street and most of the second-floor apartments. Nagel is safe. No one would dare attack a black mayor at this time, regardless of his actions, or lack of. That's one of the things that made Oprah's comments so laughable. Based on her conclusions, a black Mayor would have done more to save a white population than a black one. I wonder if she considered that...

I will certainly honor your request concerning not centering, as long as that's not a sneaky way to get me to move to the LEFT!


Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


8 posted 09-06-2005 11:12 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I'll give Mayor Nagin a little bit of a pass.  After all, before he was elected Mayor (I found this hard to believe, but it's true), he was an accountant for Cox (cable providor).  No city council, no PTA Board (that I know of), not even sure if he was a board member for a Home Owner Associate or a leader for Neighborhood Watch...no prior political experience.  Granted, he has learned a bit in the few years he's held office, but was never really tested like more political mayors are tested.  And he froze up.  He just didn't do enough mayorial homework, especially regarding Emergency Proceedures, and had never really had anything major happen during his tenure.  Then Baptism by Fire and Water.

What's the major difference between New Orleans after Katrina and NYC after 9/11?  Mayors.  Guilliani was a seasoned pro, and knew how government worked, and what strings to pull to get something done.  Nagin, by comparison, is a rank amateur.  Sure, he could've been helped a lot by Governor Blanco, but she was too busy practicing CYA to be of much assistance.  She's been in politics much longer though.

Nagin gets a bit of a pass, Blanco gets none.  Disaster response starts from within the state, not Federal from without.
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


9 posted 09-07-2005 12:18 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Michael, I knew well you would come out and say just this, so not being surprised by your reaction, I am prepared to respond.

(I just read that earlier response critiquing my constant usage of the "centering" of text here, so in respect of the poster, I will align my text to the left, and not because many of my views usually lean strongly to the left, LOL! )

*****

First and foremost, I am not blaming Bush alone, but the government in general, as I have specifically stated in both the Katrina and A Necessary Rant threads where I also sharply criticized Michael Brown, Mchael Chertoff, FETA in general, etc. I do believe Bush is greatly to blame here indeed because while New Orleans was drowning to begin with and many were already aware and warned of the dangers, he was busy in California on Tuesday continuing to defend his disastrous Iraq mission in comparing it to World War II and strumming guitar with Mark Wills, then later returned to his ranch, and FINALLY on Wednesday morning went back to Washington as though he had just learned about the news of Katrina.

Bush is not just the president, he's our commander-in-chief too. He swore an oath on his Inauguration Day to do everything in his power to protect America, our Constitution and our liberties. He agreed to work "for the people", the ultimate duty and responsibility of being president. And he failed miserably last week in living up to his word, and because of his late response in part with the government in general, dozens have died on their watch.

If Bush had responded immediately, the National Guard would have been there two to two-and-a-half days earlier than they were too. Being the commander-in-chief, you blow the whistle and they'll do just as they're told. He wasn't there to blow the whistle until much of the worst was already happening.

I find it completely understandable why Bush is among the center of this heated finger-pointing situation. Whether or not each person elected him, he is OUR president, he is OUR elected leader. But where was the leadership? Many who elected him last year, like yourself certainly, did so because you trusted that he was the man who would defend this great nation. You truly felt a deep trust in him that he would fulfill his oath, his word to the max, and work for the people.

Bush has himself to blame largely here because he has done the opposite in the past week. He said twice that "we are not satisfied" when touring down there. Not satisfied with what? He just can't make his story straight. What does he mean by "we"?
Why didn't Bush just say, "I'm not satisfied with my government's response."

What I find absolutely disturbing is that while the administration didn't respond swiftly in the rescue mission for the victims down there, they instead are using all their energy swiftly on a rescue mission on their own selves. It just strikes me that their emotions to the tragedy are disingenuous and selfish, that they seem to value their careers over others lives.

And the worst part of all here is, because of his total lack of leadership here, in consequence of that, he in part with the government has damaged many's confidence in our ability to trust or rely on the White House, which I fear this may last for years, and certainly through the end of Bush's second term.

I said before I believe I would do a better job as president than him, and remember how many laughed of absurdity of the comment. After that display especially, I truly believe just traveling straight there and calling for the mobilization of all efforts possible to go out there and rescue those stranded and in need of necessities could show that I would make a better leader than him under that situation. Indeed I don't want to come off sounding incredibly pompous here as I don't believe I ever want to jump into the political field anyway as a vast majority of it truly is all just blood-sucking tick sports and I want to represent the nation at the local level, representing for the people and not for the few at the top in cubicles, but I truly believe so many could have responded much more professionally than that last week.

That is precisely why I consider Bush one of the greatest people to blame here. I remember how many in the months following 9/11, when some began learning about his intent to go to Iraq, that those who questioned and dissented were being pointed at and were told that they think they forget that Bush is not just the president, he is the commander-in-chief as well. But this time around, I think it's the other way around, and Bush failed to play his role as commander-in-chief and just go out there on the spot and mobilize all humanitarian and military efforts in wake of the storm.

*****

Secondly, Michael, you're forgetting or denying that it is not just the usual suspects you often refer to as "Bush-bashers" like myself who have frequently criticized him on a majority of his policies like the war in Iraq (which I still consider senseless by all means) and the Patriot Act that are pointing their fingers at Bush here or consider him very much or partially at fault.

Fellow Republicans, old-school conservatives and conservative thinktanks have also come out expressing their strong disapproval. Many of the victims and families themselves angered of the response taking so long mentioned Bush in name.
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=59785

The New Hampshire Union Leader, one of the most famous and credible conservative papers in America, have sharply criticized Bush:

"A better leader would have flown straight to the disaster zone and announced the immediate mobilization of every available resource to rescue the stranded, find and bury the dead, and keep the survivors fed, clothed, sheltered and free of disease.

The cool, confident, intuitive leadership Bush exhibited in his first term, particularly in the months immediately following Sept. 11, 2001, has vanished. In its place is a diffident detachment unsuitable for the leader of a nation facing war, natural disaster and economic uncertainty."


Newt Gingrich, Chuck Hagel and other voices which have favored his policies a majority of the time have also expressed their criticisms publicly.

*****

Finally, I just have to say the pictures alone should explain the situation better than anything any press conference ever does. When you look at all those anguished, grief-stricken faces and then next to it you see a picture of Bush strumming a guitar in California, one of Condi just outside a Broadway production in New York City, one of Cheney in Maryland preparing to buy a new house, or one of Rumsfeld hanging loose with Dave Winfield and Padres President John Moores in San Diego, you should immediately ask yourself, "What's wrong with ths picture?"

I myself wrote this poem earlier criticizing the administration and the government to their sluggish response titled "Screaming Without Lungs", and I don't take back anything I expressed in that. I placed pictures into that poem that weren't merely designed to attack Bush, but to get readers to asking that question, "What's wrong with this picture?"

*****

In closing statements, I find it quite understandable why Bush is a major face in the blame game right now, and, yes, you are correct that there are others indeed at fault here. The rest of the administration in general, Michael Brown, FETA in general, parts of the Department of Homeland Security, Blanco (a Democrat indeed, to show that my attitudes cross beyond party lines) and certainly some state and local officials who understood the dynamics and warning signs so long and just didn't take the magnitude of the threat seriously.

But I absolutely defend my belief that Bush is one most worthy of blame here in being a leader that showed no true leadership, and it certainly doesn't help either that another Bush (Barbara Bush) had to come out and say today that recolation is working very well for the poor, which that just only makes her son's image look even more controversial and only further drives that nail in going around that there is a racial/poverty issue here too as Kanye west insisted, which I don't quite agree with.

That $40 billion he offered today for the relief effort is certainly a start, but he has quite a way to go to prove himself that he is working for the people and he is a leader, and that means really looking at the whole of the picture as he didn't do much of last week.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


10 posted 09-07-2005 12:18 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Sorry Ali but I can't agree with you on the pass, however small, for Nagin. If one want to run for mayor of a major city then surely some competence should be required. If he did not have it and was just a "figurehead" the he (or those responsible for his election) certainly should have had sense and rationality enough to ensure that there was someone behind the scenes to handle the job.

Other than that, you are right on.

P.S. Oh, BTW, Mike, I think you can safely left adjust your text without any danger of being suspected of "political left leanings."


Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


11 posted 09-07-2005 12:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ah, Noah...

If Bush had responded immediately, the National Guard would have been there two to two-and-a-half days earlier than they were too. Being the commander-in-chief, you blow the whistle and they'll do just as they're told. He wasn't there to blow the whistle until much of the worst was already happening.

Did you miss this, Noah?


Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said.


Bush had nothing to so with the National Guard not responding. The National Guard of Louisiana is under direct command of the governor. If you want to know why they weren't there...ask her!

Unfortunately, you will make sure every finger of yours points in Bush's direction, regardless. Well, that's your right....continue your good fight.


Thanks, Pete...I wuz worried!
Ringo
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-20-2003
Posts 3696
Saluting with misty eyes


12 posted 09-07-2005 12:39 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Another thing people are neglecting to realize (and this from a friend who is feet on the beat in New Orleans disaster services).. FEMA refused to allow anyone in the Greater New Orleans area due to it being unsafe. WHen a city is 15 feet under water n teh ABOVE sea level areas, that the water is rising at a rate measured in feet per hour, one does not send the troops running to the sound of the gunfire, as it were (or in this case, literally). By sending human resources into an area which has not been deemed safe, you end up creating.. what was that phrase???... More casualties.  A rescuer's first responsibility is to themselves. There is no other answer to that. If FEMA had cleared the way for rescuers from the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, the National Guard, or the "Serve and Protect" forces to run into the area, there would have been rescuer casualties... then the media, and the President Bush bashers, and the racial inequality "experts" would have wanted the head of everyone from the president of the city council to the President of the United States. I will tell you, however, that time it took to be fully functional once given the clearance for the Red Cross and the Salvation Army was counted in hours.
This, my dear friends, is a no-win situation for EVERYONE. The inmates were let out of the prison because the place was flooding too fast for them to be "properly" evacuated...and they headed right for the best place for them to "get lost" in the crowd... now those same prisoners are shooting at the police helicopters sent to rescue them and others... The Army Corps of Engineers and FEMA stated that the place wasn't safe for a full-scale rescue operation, the areas where the poor folks lived (yes, the majority were black) are in the more in-accesable areas, and the more flooded areas, which means that they have to be rescued by helicopter... the same ones being shot at... people are being shot in Louisiana for NOT being black, and most of the rescuers are white... UH... am I the only one who doesn't see something wrong with not going balls to the wall into a situation where the people you were rescuing were going to shoot you, or where the chance of you dying instead is unusually high?
Another point of contention for me... I was watching one of the all-news channels, and they were doing a story on how there was a missing child, and while they were doing the story, the child was found and reunited with her father... who just happened to be a non-black newsman. Did ANYONE scream about the fact that there were literally hundreds of people still missing, a number of the children, and the ONLY one that was being profiled was the daughter of an influential member of the community???

I have but one simple request of those who are screaming and criticizing the relief efforts without having ALL of the facts:
Would you please spare us the diatribe of the unknowing?
Yes, it is true that mistakes were made all the way around... Yes, it is true that there are people still waiting to be rescued... yes, it is true that this is going to be nit-picked by the "experts" in the media, and those who sit safe in their towers for years to come, and yes, it is true that this is going to be an electral issue in a couple of years. The fact of the matter is, everyone is blaming the President for mistakes done by people he had no knowledge of, and whom he had no effort in choosing (the governor and the leaders of NO). It is true that President Bush chose a personal friend to head up FEMA, just as President F. Roosevelt chose a Wall Street cronie to head the OSS (pre-runner to the CIA) even though he had NO intelligence background (He was a stock broker, or some such). They ALL do it. President Nixon hired someone who had never served in the military to win the Vietnam War... go figure.
the piont to my tirade (and yes, I have one...which is slightly unusual) is that everyone who chooses to point fingers and send out the blame, and scream about irresponsibility needs to step back, take another sip of their beer, and put themselves in charge of FEMA (or the city of New Orleans, or Homeland Security, or whatever) in their own mind, then given themselves the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States. Once they have that picture in their mind, they should tell everyone what they would do if: their rescuers were being shot at, the rescue zone was unsafe to enter, the main evacuation shelter had to be evacuated because it was unstable, a large portion of the criminal population was back on the streets and was causiing trouble, the situation was becoming more unstable as the minutes pass, and EVERY media outlet in the known world was on your their back, and second-guessing their every move while screaming for action and blood because it wasn't to their liking. The ONLY proper answer is, "Well, gee... I don't know. I have never been in that position and am not there now."
Now that you have realized that... go ahead and complain that they are just like you.

When all is said
All is done
Still I live
And carry on-
Quiet Riot

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


13 posted 09-07-2005 12:43 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

And you hit the nail on the head there, Michael, in why I listed Blanco as one of the characters at fault here.

A commander-in-chief still isn't excused from the duty of mobilizing these military and humanitarian efforts, and the fact it took until Friday for him to request this federal takeover only further illustrates the reality of his sluggish response in getting the federal government prepared to assist in these efforts.

I'm certain that Blanco will be a focus in this investigation. I just find it wrong how this is not an independent investigation like the 9/11 Commission.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


14 posted 09-07-2005 12:47 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

A magnificent response, Ringo....thank you.
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


15 posted 09-07-2005 12:48 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Thank you for beinging up the issue of FEMA again, Bradly, and I certainly have not let my eye off them, as you could clearly see in the original "Katrina" thread where I directly gave a slew of links that expose the numerous humanitarian offers FEMA rejected, from a Navy ship with a hospital wing holding 600 beds to back-up generators.

I do believe Bush must step up to demand some reformation of the Federal Emergency Management Agency and I certainly suggest firing Michael Brown for his complete incompetence, and that is exactly what I meant earlier when I was referring to Bush must prove himself an able leader again by looking at the big picture; focusing on the roles as well.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


16 posted 09-07-2005 01:11 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I stand by my original comments.
And Michael, I sure was hoping it was a typo, that you wanted to discuss finger painting, not pointing
I am far more adept at painting than pointing, but when I point my finger? it's filled with reality paint, not imaginery colors.
As for firing the FEMA man? He is just an employee doing what he was told to do. But do you remember Nuremburg trials????
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


17 posted 09-07-2005 08:30 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Politician after politician ?Republican and Democrat alike ?has paraded before us, unwilling or unable to shut off the "I-Me" switch in their heads, condescendingly telling us about how moved they were or how devastated they were ?congenitally incapable of telling the difference between the destruction of a city and the opening of a supermarket.

--Keith Oberman again

That's pretty much how it looked to me.

The BBC today showed a kind of timeline montage, pieced together from different American stations. The phrase, "NO dodged a bullet" kept ringing through my ears. When the reporters realized they were wrong, when the people watching knew that was wrong, it never seemed to occur to those in charge, democrat and republican alike, to change the endless thanking of each other, to stop saying everything will be okay, help is on its way.

Ringo, you're right, I don't know how I would have acted as a trooper (Fema, police, military or otherwise) I don't know how I would have acted if my family and I had been stranded in NO).

But I'm pretty sure that I would have acted very differently than those guys I saw on television thanking each other.
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


18 posted 09-07-2005 11:23 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Mike, I will admit, I don't like Bush, he and Kerry both scared me...but what scares me more, is the people he puts in charge, not to mention those who have resigned governmental positions.  

Mike, please if you will, allow me to explain.  I hate the fact that the US has only two strong parties, it has not only divided this country...but...has made people extreme left wing, or right wing...meaning, that depending on the party your registered as, regardless of right or wrong or corrupt, b/c that is your party, your vote, you will obviously defend bad behavior...b/c saying this person made a mistake, would mean, you made a mistake, would be an admit ion that your might have been wrong...and due to that human concept...that stubbornness, that fear of being wrong, has allowed political powers to excel.

Mike, I'm registered independent...cuz I tried both parties...and both parties are corrupt in once way or another, no matter how you cut it...some of these guys in politics are not in it for what they can give, but what they can get, and don't give a hoot about their jobs...as long as they receive their pay checks.  

This botch up with Katrina was a perfect example of how prepared this country and its leaders are...

This was a miscommunication on the part of all involved...and in my way of thinking....Bush cut his 28 day vacation short, the day after Katrina had left.  

Now to me, the governor and mayor surely made mistakes, but...Bush should have been on the phone immediately discussing evacuation plans with these people, before he left for vacation, or during?

And by the way, how the heck many vacations does this President have to take?  

My point in the thread I created was to point out...that if Bush has all those Plans in Place that he so loosely uses...then he would have taken the initiative to call both the governor, mayor, while people were in fact evacuating and talked about what might happen.  

God forbid if the super dome would have collapsed, which was a constant on my mind, did anyone else worry about the devastation and the lives lost if that would have happened?

This was a blatant miscommunication problem, along with a lamed attitude in job performance and responsibility, not to mention, the ability to take charge and make decision without having to be handfed.  

How the heck can the head of FEMA perform strategic evacuation plans, when in fact the only experience he's had was as an Arabian Horse Show Judge?  I mean, at least choose a fireman, or police officer, or retired military officer for this very vital position?

And I mean no insult to any of these men, just simply saying, they are not men that fit into the hats of that requires expertise in those areas.

And yes, Deer, I'm very angry, and took those deaths very personal...so perhaps I pointed fingers without thinking things thru...but it also makes me very angry when the NWAACP gets up and starts screaming racism?????  I'm so sick and tired of them excusing bad behavior as well...and I have many Friends who are African American who also say, Polize Jessie, give it a rest and stop rewarding BAD BEHAVIOR.

This situation, to me would have happened regardless of whom was living in this area, be it rich, poor, black, white, or in-between. It was a case of not being prepared...not paying attention...and a perfect example of what is happening in this country today...way to many people are in positions of leadership, who should not be there, b/c they cannot perform they're jobs and need someone else to tell them what to do, even if that means hiring consultants to do so...who only care about the paycheck and not the entire success of the whole....not just themselves.  

Deer, I'm sorry and apologize if I sounded like an unleashed wolf on a human being...but I won't apologize for my opinions of this country today...and/or what we the people have allowed to happen, cuz we're more concerned about being right then the result and ripple effect...

In the end, they will pick a scope goat, which will likely be Michael Brown, he'll loose his job and be replaced with some other local yokels who don’t know a darn thing about evacuation, and people will forget.

Just like, they're going to rebuild these entire cities with frame houses again...above ground wiring...and hope that in our lifetime we don't have to deal with another hurricane or deal with rebuilding and so, let the next generation worry about it. instead of putting good money into better buildings and safer utility lines...please read my Katrina thread...my last comment...

anyway, we all have good Points and bad points but...my greatest concern is hiring men who can do the job and immediately respond, making rational decisions...when it comes to the safety of our nations people.  

To me, this was a dry run of what would happen if we had another terrorist attack.  Mike, we are not ready and we are no safer then we were before 9/11.

How can we be with all these people in this country unaccounted for, who have training camps right here, cells right here...and nobody but nobody cares????

But hey, we have homeland security????  Which has been called a joke by their own members....

See, Mike, money was allocated for Homeland Security, but there were no specifics, so each politician who was handed this money, spent that money anyway they could...and that's a fact jack.  Much money for Homeland Security is gone...

Mike, things have desperately changed since you and I were in school, and today, the entire culture relies on instant gratification...there is no longer concern for tomorrow, it's the concept, heck, why not live for today, cuz tomorrow another generation can worry about the problem.  You wouldn't believe the corporate world today, and the stuff that goes on...and how backs are scratched and pacified.  

I don't care if these guys have Harvard Degrees; they are not suitable for their positions...

Deer, The H. Norman Schwarzkopf’s of the world are gone...those military men who could make a decision without fear of that decision being unpopular...they do not react on impulse but rather with strategic thoroughness with saving lives being first and foremost and least of all, they do not worry about if they're actions are going to gain them votes or not.

Sorry to say, again and again, if our government is corrupt, so to will be it's people, and that's where we've come to...President Bush has the nerve to threaten anyone who price gouges, and yet, his oil company raised they're prices along with everyone else?  Bad Behavior is now days acceptable, and the heck with job description, responsibilities to the people, and this country...decision is made today, solely by...what's in it for me....and that's how people get killed or die.

I'm sorry, hope you don't hate me for my opinion...these are things I would have said about our present administration anyway...
and as far as Clinton, I didn't like the guy either, but...he was literally a genius, and when he left office, we were not in debt.

Certainly not like now, and I feel very bad for the next administration when Bush walks out, not to mention, it literally scars me to think, who else is going to be voted in, simply b/c they claim to be against abortion...or against stem cell research....

yanno, those things will go on regardless of whose in there, has since the beginning of time...

anyway...Deer...respectively and honestly
Hope you understand & find it in your heart to still somewhat like me, if you can  , but Yes, I'm finger pointing
cuz I'm damn mad....
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


19 posted 09-07-2005 11:46 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

LeeJ, a note about most Presidential 'vacations'.  More often than not, they are working vacations and are have been used by innumerable Administrations to get away from D.C.; have informal and formal meetings with state and federal elected officials and foreign dignitaries; draft speeches, programs, legislation, objectives, and sundry; consult with advisors in a more relaxed setting; and gain some downtime from high stress situations.  Some have done more play than work, granted.  With President Bush, it seems he's almost always working, whether it's home/property maintenance, meeting folks, or Administrative tasks.  It'd be like you or me getting a month's vacation, and spending the entire month volunteering at soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, and the Boys and Girls Club, all while working on our own properties.

Most professions out there begin and end in the office/workplace.  I might sell books at work, but don't sell books at home.  Once I come home, I'm no longer a book seller, but will be once again when I go back to work.  The rest of the professions, even while sleeping at night, you're still on the job.  Emergency personnel, enforcement personnel, elected officials.  That includes the President.  He's the President in his suits, he's the President in his jeans and workshirt, he's the President in his pajamas.  As were all the prior Presidents and as will be the future Presidents.
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


20 posted 09-07-2005 12:46 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Lee, you are absolutely right in your rant in how you addressed why you are an independent, as I am one too and though there are Democrats that do have the right idea who I believe are making an effort to embrace the other 57 million plus who voted for change, I refuse to call myself a Democrat now because they just won't unite together as a real opposition party and rather porray themselves as a Lite version of the ruling party, where we also have a majority of the candidates said to run for President in 2008 those who support the war in Iraq and everything, including Clinton and Biden, and won't even publicly address thw questions they have on how the policy is being carried out, etc.

I am very much frustrated by the political climate in general, and absolutely agree it is just heartbreaking that in America of all places, we're stuck with this two-party system, stuck with one extreme or the other, and how corporate pressure and apathy is keeping us from stepping up together and finding a place for third candidates, fusion voting ballots, etc.

Who knows if Kerry were elected how similarly or differently the whole response would have been. Only God knows that. I never felt strongly in Kerry to begin with and only voted for him because at least he had some goal in getting our young men and women out of Iraq, and that he had always struck me as an intelligent, disciplined thinker who would think matters out before acting on them. But I certainly wouldn't say I was proud to vote for him as he never struck me as that leader that would represent everyone.

Y'all have watched me call Bush a number of things within the past two and a half years since I first lost respect for him in declaring war on Iraq; a thief, a liar, a divider, a criminal, and now to the list I add a word that I never thought I'd add understanding how stubborn and determined he has always stuck by his agenda; after his weak response to Katrina and vacation after vacation, he's seemingly non-commited to his oath in the fullest sense.

It doesn't always have to be this way, this attitude that who you elect is "What you see is what you get." It just isn't a vast majority of the time. Thinking that way only leaves you feeling most discouraged and apathetic when you see otherwise just happening in contradiction to what they swore an oath for. And I hope we can make an effort to strengthen this democracy that America deserves ever too much and is overdue for sinew.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Ringo
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-20-2003
Posts 3696
Saluting with misty eyes


21 posted 09-07-2005 12:58 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

LeeJ- A question... what proof do you have that the propers agencies in the government WEREN'T "on the phone" with the people in New Orleans and in Mississippi?? In another part of this thread, proof ws offered that the governmental gencies involved WERE in contact with the governmental authorities in NO and were politely, or not so politely, told to "shove".
As for President Bush not being on the phone:
1) What proof do you have that he wasn't
2) Why would the President- who has enough on his plate- taked the time to PERSONALLY call these people when he has people that he has hired and that were approved by Congress, BTW (yet they get no blame), that take care of that for him. That is akin to a franchise being in the line of a wild fire and the company president calling the franchise owner personally to make sure the employees get out. In both of these cases, there are other people who you put your trust and faith in, and who you depend on to do their jobs. In this case, while I do think that perhaps putting a few more resources in place might have been a good thing before the storm hit, as has been pointed out earlier, it wouldn't have made much good, because:
1) The local administration wasn't listening
2) The area wasa not safe enough to conduct full out rescue missions the day after the hurricane hit.

To put an end to this... why is everyone blaming THIS particular President for all of the disaster when they City Leadership of New Orleans has known for MANY, MANY, MANY years that those levees were unstable, and that they might collapse in a hevy storm... yet did nothing at all to fix them, and to attempt to prevent it from happening in thbe first place? Is it President Bush's fault that the city leaders and the governor were failing their people BEFORE he became Goernor of Texas?

When all is said
All is done
Still I live
And carry on-
Quiet Riot

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


22 posted 09-07-2005 12:59 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/30/State/For_forecasting_chief.shtml

This above article, published last Tuesday in the St. Petersburg Times, reveals that the National Hurricane Center director Max Mayfield called Bush as early as Sunday, August 28th in warning him about the serious concerns of Katrina, as well as Nagin and the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi:

"This is the life of a hurricane forecaster: being reviled one moment and lauded the next.

Mayfield understands this. Which is why he won't stop hounding people, giving warnings, making calls when a storm approaches.

On Saturday night, Mayfield was so worried about Hurricane Katrina that he called the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and the mayor of New Orleans. On Sunday, he even talked about the force of Katrina during a video conference call to President Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

"I just wanted to be able to go to sleep that night knowing that I did all I could do," Mayfield said."


*******

So the bottom line is, Bush, Blanco and Barbour all knew and were warned well that Katrina was no storm to underestimate and indeed was something to take seriously and respond to.

So while they all keep going around and deny their ignorance of the disaster, while they all keep saying "How could we have known the severity of this hurricane?", they were briefed, they knew what was coming, yet Bush stays on vacation anyway while eating cake with McCain and playing guitar, and meanwhile Blanco and Barbour are doing God knows what during the crisis.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


23 posted 09-07-2005 01:12 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hey Ringo...your right, I have no proof, but, rather, proof that distress was not addressed by any one of them properly...
otherwise, it certainly wouldn't have taken them 4 days to get off their butts and get in there...I truely believe if they had, lives could have been spared...they should have gotten in there directly after the fact and started air lifting people out of there.  Medical supplies as well as food and water, should have been immediately deployed, did anyone anticipate, that these people were going to be stranded?

Listen, I don't mean to sound like I'm hammering Bush alone, but he is, at the top of the line, and when they were not doing anything for days, he should have been on the phone to the state/FEMA/RED CROSS, organizing...etc. asking questions the first day. Yes?  I mean, isn't it the human thing to do regardless of position?

Again...I'm tired of hearing him (Bush) say, "We have a Plan in Place".  Doesn't anyone ask themselves and our government "WHAT PLAN"  WE WANT TO SEE AN OUTLINE OF THIS PLAN?  Communication is the key to success, No?

Ali
thanks so much for the education...some friends at work just told me the same thing...so thank you...

Respectfully and sincerely
Lee J.

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


24 posted 09-07-2005 01:20 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

No, Bradly, I'm sure that this investigation (which should be an independent investigation) will reveal the most guilty of consciences in the Louisiana and Mississippi state governments who have pushed the states backwards from progress in improving the region's infrastructure, supply systems and defense, and I believe there are guilty faces in there which I jus don't know enough about at this time.

And yes, I absolutely defend my belief that Bush is one worthy of great blame for the tragedy, because whether or not each one voted for him or not, he is OUR president and he works "for the people", he works to protect the people, and it is quite obvious he has taken his responsibility for granted when it comes to this sort of national security.
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=344

Here, at Fact Check, a site which is considered most credible among both those who lean Democrat or Republican for detecting false claims and truths about issues from both ends, they do a great job detailing how Bush cut funding for levee projects, as well as noting the 44% decline since Bush took office on all construction projects in the New Orleans region.

It also details quotations from the New Orleans Times-Picayune since just after 9/11, where they warn that projects are being held back because so much of the federal money is going to counter-terrorism efforts and Iraq, etc.

*****

As I've repeatedly stated, I believe Katrina couldn't have been prevented, it hitting New Orleans was inevitable, as well as much of the damage that it generated. Indeed had things been different the past five years and the Army Corps of Engineers got all the money they requested, who knows if it would have kept the levees from breaking in this tragedy like they did, we don't know that.

But what is clear is that Bush did cut funding to construction efforts, he was warned about the seriousness of Katrina before it even hit the coast, and he reacted weakly to the situation, which I believe knowing that he is deserving of partial/great deal of blame.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Finger Pointing......   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors