»
Discussion
»
The Alley
»
Call off the dogs...
| The Alley |
|
Call off the dogs... |
|
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
Hey, why don't ya all come over and prove how smart and witty you are against me for a while. I don't claim to be an accomplished poet and ain't certainly as smart as most, so have at me. One interesting characteristic I have seen when Ron exercises his position and chastizes someone, (rightly or wrongly) then we enter a feeding frenzy to join the fun. Then we all end up being cutesy to prove how "correct" we are. And yep, don't attack the person who who owns the printing press and buys ink by the barrel. First, the initial post by a distinguished member of the board was not a harsh critique. I would personally characterize as a rather innocuous cheap shot. I was unable to discern how it was a critique offered to assist someone in bettering their poetry. But then again, it is all a matter of perception and one should not attempt to delve into the minds of others. It does not take a college graduate to read someone's poetry and figure where they are coming from and what they are seeking as far as input. And it certainly is not hard to attack en masse. I won't even talk about the two rather cheap shots taken in other posts which I read as personal attacks which apparently were felt to be warranted by Ron letting the gates open for barrel shooting. I find it extremely hard to buy Ron's statement that someone was not making a personal attack in her response. I can't read the post any other way. I cannot see how any person could read it any other way. Again, it is a matter of perception. Were there severe overreactions by the those now suffering the consequences? yep, to the point of being childish. Is the other side without fault, not hardly. Intellect, arrogance and condescending attitudes unfortunately have a tendency to interchange. The behavior on both sides is pretty poor if you ask me, but then again, one side is clearly the victor. I did find interesting the comment about someone coming the rescue of someone, when it is a reaction many who have joined the thread have utilized or experienced. Opeth, I have a new found respect for you. You are the one person involved I believe acted honorably. As you might take it, I had a rather trying day dealing with what I take as serious matters and thought I would come home to relieve tension by reading a little poetry and maybe even penning a word or two. Instead, I see we are still shooting fish in the barrel. Give em a break and show me what a terrible person I am and I will readily agree how witty and charming you all are. Please don't take this as supporting the actions of the original poster, I don't read his poetry nor have I have ever had any contact with him. I just see there is another side to most issues and am not particularly impressed by either side. |
||
| © Copyright 2004 Tim - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
A Romantic Heart Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-03
Posts 5496Forever In Your Heart |
I have an imagination....but I am not imaginging "Why people are leaveing PIP"...and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out....I wonder why everyone is at a loss as to the reason why? I guess love is blind and maybe friendship too!...and at least we do have admittance about the cliques..one thing to identify the problem..next to fix it... Maybe I should post a NEW suggestion in the suggestion area...instead of "a Family of friends" it should be families....and circles of friends....instead of circle of friends....more truthful and fitting. I agree ....that is just my opinion, which I am free to it. |
||
|
RSWells Member Elite
since 2001-06-17
Posts 2533 |
Hehehe.....I'm not familiar with your writings here but your member date suggests you've seen alot of changes in the growth on PIPS. It also entitles you to an opinion. I'll agree that on several posts (in areas designated for such no less) there has been untoward behaviour from both responents and originators of the posts. Interestingly, while most seem to be upset at the editing of volunteer moderators in squelching what must have been writings important to the posters, the concerns themselves are not deleted. Ron is articulate and capable of defending himself when he is personally attacked (which he was in one post) Those who pile on afterwards however do little more but embarrass themselves in an unnecessary rush to defend him. It would be best if these things were handled in E-mails and perhaps a seperate room could be developed where Ron, the offending moderator and the member who felt an offense could hash things out, away from public view. A sort of appeals process. I understand your disgust at the posts. Sorry I wasn't here for a fight (be glad I wasn't I'm awesome) |
||
|
A Romantic Heart Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-03
Posts 5496Forever In Your Heart |
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,(what we have here is a failure to communicate)LOL Standing back, refraining from posting and allowing time for observations of replies... It is a timely manner to post my observations..first of all I must say in defense for myself,(only because I feel I have been attacked) that I have been a five year member to PIP as well. During these five years, not once have I crtiqued or said any harsh words to another person, personally I am not God and I feel I have no right to judge others, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Degree or not...it all comes down to the matter of the heart... My heart has always been full of love for others, no need to defend myself, for my poetry, replies and heart speaks for itself. the proof is in the pudding.My pudding taste sweet...not sour... Yes I am a passionate and very caring, sensitive person, so I accept it as an honor it you want to label me a defender of people..etc. Along with passion comes belief and when I feel something is unjust, not right,I will take a stand, even till death to try and attain justice, fairness, etc. Most of the time thoughout my five years at PIP, I have not "made waves", remained quiet. In my first Alley post, maybe I should have stated that my statement was due to a five year "observation" not just "assuming". Really there were no assumptions, I have received several emails from certain people who I respected and chose not to name their name. The critique given by servn was not the complete reason for my post. I can take critisim, "loving" critisim with a grain of salt. As I have done before and just ignored it. Continueing to ignore a problem does not make it go away. If I am correct, out of the five years of PIP, this was the first critique I had received from servn. My critique was flagged, but there is a space allowed for me as the poet to choose the kind of critique I accept. That is MY right as a member. My statement was "be gentle my heart breaks like glass", and if you don't have anything nice to say...then don't say ot at all."....How much more blunt did I have to put it? maybe I should say "no harsh or rude critiques" just friendly replies....and yes that is my preference then so be it that is my right to accept critisim or not.I just don't like someone who doesn't even know me to drop in out of the blue and start crtique on me especially if I didn't ask for it in the first place..maybe the critical analysis 2 forum was becoming to dull...not exciting enough. If I wanted to be critiqued, I would post in the forum that is specifically made for this. If anyone knew me well enough, they do know I have been through alot in my life and I have overcame many obstacles, I am a strong woman, and I do respect others to not personally attack them and respect their wishes when it comes to critique preference. The major point of my first post in the Alley was from observation of seeing new poets post ( over a five year period) and see them sometimes get a critical reply and then you never see them post ever again... Out of concern and love....I wanted to reach out and stop this from occuring to anyone else.... I posted to be true, not to sit back and everything is pretend or a bed of roses, because life is not. I acknowledge this the same as everyone else. I feel the same. Personally I am not one for argueing, maybe good discussion. Discussion brings forth truth and honesty..realness. To make or break relationships...discussion is good if communicated in the right cival way. Now I have noticed the cliques that is true, this is just my opinion, but it sometimes is this: you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours mentality. (Possibly having nothing to do with the poetry itself, but the person posting). Secondly...I do nothing for show, everything I do comes from my heart, and if my heart is on trial, it alone proves my case. Thirdly: there is a difference between critique in the real world and on the net. Critisim from a friend, a teacher, co-worker is usually one-on-one and a relationship has been established before critisim is made. With the net,millions of viewers see it...so when you are critized on PIP it is not just between two people. With that in mind, knowing we are in front of others, it IS actually like a show, a reality show, with lots of characters. I am a very humble and modest person..never have I been egotistical..never will! Fourth: Phil is doing what his heart feels, after all he is just like each of you..(protecting your friends and loved ones) just as you feel to post because of friendship, etc. yes some of his intent may have been in my defense, after all he is only human..a man in love...maybe he had observed and wanted to make a statement for what he believes in. We all have the human spirit to stand for what we believe in.All his comments etc. was his choosing...whatever his reason, I support his stand. on issues..but not personal attacks.(under no circumstance is personal attacks from anyone or to anyone justified)about Ron...or anyone! To sum it up, Yes I felt violated to a degree AFTER reading Svrns words in her post to my alley post. 1. Because she named me personally, 2. She said things about me without knowing me as a person. In my alley post, I had used the figure of speech "English Professor" this was not intented for a certain person..or persons..or anyone with an English degree.Honestly I had no idea of who had what? I applaud anyone with such accomplishment! Being at PIP has been good and bad, it has ups and downs. Just like life itself, my purpose in life as a human being is love and give love and peace, but sometimes it is that love, that passion that is the driving force behind making changes for the betterment of society or for personal reasons. This is just all my two-cents worth and you can take it or leave it. Lovingly I feel I will post my poems and I know I am not the greatest or near it. If you like it, and it makes you feel something inside your heart, if it stirs you, moves you...good.If you don't, then don't reply. there is enough negativity in the world, our lives without adding more. I could care less what people think or say...and if someone didn't make me feel violated, then I would not feel I need to put this post in defense of my personality. It is my life, my heart, and I am the one living it. They don't live my life, for me nor do they walk in my shoes. As for PIP, I just wanted to make a note that I will not be posting poetry for sometime, not due to the current situations. I had decided this about a month ago when starting a book..or books that I am writing to be published.I am going to focus, putting all my heart and effort into the books. I agree about getting off the net and living a life..a real life...balance of both is the key. In closing, I wish you love, peace, and fairness, A heart that is filled with love is better to share than one that is not...share love, kindness, not negativity. Love one another as you would love yourselves--------Peace! Ps.One final note...do I believe apologies should be stated...yes! all the way around....on both sides of the fence! Open your eyes, open your mind, open your heart, let me come in and show you love.....~ARH |
||
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
Take care Romantic Heart. Nicely expressed. |
||
|
Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Once again I'm in the position of not really wanting to reply, but finding myself having to. Hasn't this been blown way out of proportion? That's my initial thought, but hey. Tim - I know your stance on the academic very well. I can see how all this might upset you. However, I think your perception on quite a few of the issues is slightly skewed. I'm not going to say how right now - I'd rather avoid yet another argument. So, I'm acknowledging what you say. You won't actually believe this but I detest arguing. That doesn't make me afraid to speak my mind though, knowing what might come as a result. Such as this post. ARH - look hon, let me tell you AGAIN. Please. I didn't 'name' you I responded to what you and Phil had said in your initial post. I just can't understand how this isn't clear? You spoke, Phil spoke - I responded to what both of you had said and to make what I said clear I used your names so you'd know I was talking to you. Ok? Be well. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
I'm afraid I don't understand the reason for this thread at all. For you, Tim, to say you only wanted to pop over to PIP and relieve tension by reading some poetry and relaxing - and then you initiate a thread with Hey, why don't ya all come over and prove how smart and witty you are against me for a while. - seems a little strange to me. If Ron threw up his hands tomorrow and closed this site I wouldn't be surprised a bit... |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Tim, You're bending over backwards to be vague and impartial. But isn't that just another example of the problem? As far as I can tell, it comes down to one big misunderstanding. As much as I'd love to get into a discussion on the value of a critique, that doesn't seem to have been the issue. Some of us like A Romantic Heart believes that sincerity of feeling (from the heart) is the most important thing (and perhaps, though I don't know if she'd agree with this, the only important thing). With this idea, it becomes very difficult to accept or to see the criticism of poetry as justifiable. Others, like myself, don't share that opinion. Yet, isn't it fair to say that no one here wants to offend other people? Sure, there are 'cheap shots', sarcastic remarks, and whatnot. Sure, there are mistakes made. I make'm all the time. But really does anybody want to scare people away from PiP (In CA we've scared people off by saying things like, "Hey, can you clean up the grammar?")? Does any respond to, "I was offended by that." with, "Yeah, that's how I wanted you to feel." I don't think most people would do that anyway. But instead we get vague pronouncements on critiques, off the cuff remarks on English majors, further remarks on the use of personal names and on and on and everybody's being offended. And yet, none of it, when you think about it was intended. I honestly believe that if things had been a little more transparent around here, this wouldn't have happened. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
You know, I just don't see it. I do see her getting heated because she thought you were attacking her, but even in this thread, doesn't she make it clear that she intended no personal attack? So, you say you intended no personal attack. She says she intended no personal attack. What else, really, can be done? Rightly or wrongly, she was a little upset. Haven't we all been there? |
||
|
nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
It seems strange Phil, after reading every response on this and other threads that while everyone else is now trying to calm things down, you are still insisting on the word "blame" by naming Severn again. She has made known to ARH that she has only responded to what you both were saying about her, which was/is a personal attack and one against the guidelines. And you continue to "smear" her as a person, as an intellectual, and as a caring person and friend to whomever on here. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if someone says if you don't have anything "nice" to say don't say anything...because "nice" is a subjective word depending on our moods and what we wrote and how we perceive a "tone" in written word. If the person checks critiques..then that may be what they get whether in open or not. And if then ARH and you or myself say we don't want critiquing, then DON"T check it... and you will still get the "nice" replies without anything else, from most everyone who chooses to read and respond. I don't see the need to go on and complain about any person on here. I thought from reading ARH's last few replies that she has re-explained her position and that others have explained theirs and the "tone" had settled down with the understanding that it was misunderstandings. So why can't you let it go now? It seems to have become personal. M |
||
|
Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Very personal. This is getting ridiculous Goldenrose. Please back off. |
||
|
Goldenrose Member Elite
since 2003-05-30
Posts 3665 |
Moderator edit of inappropriate name-calling [This message has been edited by Nan (01-31-2004 08:19 AM).] |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Oh, I don't know. Kind of like slowing down to gape at a car accident, I have a morbid fascination with someone digging their own grave. No doubt this is intended of course. |
||
|
Goldenrose Member Elite
since 2003-05-30
Posts 3665 |
Moderator edit of inappropriate innuendo [This message has been edited by Nan (01-31-2004 08:20 AM).] |
||
|
Goldenrose Member Elite
since 2003-05-30
Posts 3665 |
Moderator edit of inappropriate name-calling [This message has been edited by Nan (01-31-2004 08:20 AM).] |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Oh, I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you anything, GR. quote: I simply find these statements entertaining. I have been pulling my punches but because you won't listen to anything I have to say. You've already made up your mind; it would be useless. quote: Uh, that was the point. quote: Fine. I differ with Ron on a big issue though. I don't really care if you worry about cliques (Hell, when I was more active I was actually trying to promote a clique), or favoritism, or arbitrary decisions. At another site, I argued against the inclusion of any guidelines at all. It was the owner's site, run it the way you want to. This isn't a government, it's a web site. One more thing, if anything Severn said caused someone to lose their poetic ambition, they didn't have poetic ambition in the first place. By definition. |
||
|
nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Phil, it does concern all on here ..it is OUR site along with Ron. WE ( all on here) make up the poets...you can't have someone apologize for anything other than your situation...if it calls for it. Where are all those others... And I do believe there are probably those who feel you owe them an apology as well... people do not have to say the words I AM SORRY, to show they care..or misunderstood. And if you feel it concerns none of the rest of us..then you should not have this done in public for all to read. M |
||
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
No Severn, you do not know my views on intellect. I said once I do not begrudge someone their intellectual accomplishments. I am not particularly going to be impressed by them either just by virtue of the fact they have them. I would focus my attention on how an individual uses their talents, whatever they might be. It is unfortunate Goldenrod entered into this thread, I personally started a new thread to avoid what happened from happening. But such is life. Brad, I thought I made myself clear enough while trying to walk that fine line of the forum guidelines. For that I apologize, but again, your responses are a frequent response not only here in Passions, but in the real world to side step a issue. You see one side to the issue, I see two and I am quite sure there are many more sides that have as much or more validity. I have found in life experience that you do not take what a person tells you they are saying, but what they are saying in context to the total picture. It is all right to not believe Romantic Heart, but if it is someone we align with, then we must automatically take what they say at face value? I have to smile on that one. If Ron would want me to leave the forum Balladeer, I will willingly abide by his wishes. Or can chastize me, heck, it is his forum. I bear him no ill will at all and respect what he has done. I will admit I do not hold him in quite the esteem some do and that in no way means I have any negative feelings. I do not however feel he is omniscient and incapable of mistakes in judgment as am I and anyone else. I know people will not take this at face value, but I was someone curious to see the reactions to my thread and got pretty much what I suspected. I bear no anomosity but find the responses interesting but on the other hand they do reinforce my own views on the points I made. My experience is that those willing to give criticism are just a likely as those who don't to not appreciate criticism directed at themselves. I went over the line with the tone I used last night. I had a rough day yesterday. That is no excuse but it happened. That does not negate the points I made which I still have heard nothing to change my mind, in fact the responses of Brad and Severn only confirmed them in my mind. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Um, what side am I missing? |
||
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
that's one ya got to figure out yourself Brad... |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Gee, ain't it wonderful how we're all so wonderfully predictable. |
||
|
nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Hi, Tim. I believe that this whole situation got out of control from the meaning of ARH's initial posting. Her beliefs are hers to feel and she does have a right to them. And I think that question or conflict was settled...her point of view made clear and the misunderstandings to follow. I think that it is the demands made that will never happen, when people are stubborn or believe their intent was never to hurt/harm/embarass another. Everyone has their individual personality, their own likes and dislikes and their own moods and intepretation of words according to what they have learned and been exposed to. I didn't mean to interrupt the purpose of your thread, nor intend to make Goldenrose or ARH feel attacked..I was hoping for some understanding. Maureen |
||
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
now you have me smiling Brad, because I had typed the same response in to your previous post and then deleted it. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Well, put that down in the column of other comments I don't understand. I certainly said nothing about you being the problem or Ron wanting you to leave...where you came up with that is beyond me. My only point was I did not understand the initiation of this thread. You were looking for poetry to relax you after a tough day. What kind of poetry were you looking for in the Alley? Instead you began a thread attacking attackers, ridiculing ridiculers, challenging challengers, berating beraters...all over a topic that did not involve you at all. You initiated a thread, without personal provocation, committing all of the actions you were complaining about being committed - and I still don't understand why. I know you to be an intelligent man, not some hot-headed kid looking for attention so that makes it more befuddling. It almost reminds me of the bumper sticker "Honk if you love peace and quiet". |
||
|
Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
Balladeer, my mind works in strange ways. I have been told that often. (that is meant to be semi-hunorous and also as semi-truthful) As I said, I had a bad day yesterday, (certain kinds of cases involving children do that to me) That is my problem. My intent of the evening got changed as was evident. I got tired of the other thread and responded as how I perceived the situation. That is still how I perceive the situation. It is the Alley and I ranted and raved. If the problem had not been put in a public forum for all to see a lot of folks would not have responded. Most generally I stay out of other people's affairs. Occasionally I will step in when something particularly irks me or I think a mismatch is occuring. I saw both. My comments about Ron were as they were written. If I stepped over the line I will take the consequences for my actions as I clearly in my mind violated forum rules and am probably still doing so. I just have little use for what as I perceive as arrogance and condescending attitudes and heaven knows I am guilty of those offenses on occasion myself. And I full well realize what perception means. The bottom line is the thread was started for me to rant. I did. If I offended anyone I apologize. |
||
|
nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
from one recent ranter to another..some days it helps to rant and others..well... M |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Tim, I can understand rants and bad moods. I'm just not quite sure you understood my first post. All I was trying to get at is that the attempt to abstract, distance, and/or balance the situation isn't always the best way to go when in fact the issue is personal. Because I really do believe that there's just a misunderstanding here. Part of it is as I've said a basic disagreement about poetry itself (I know, nobody cares), part of it is a misunderstanding on the nature of the forums (This is an interesting question: should or shouldn't they become more segregated?), and part of it is an attempt to cover up things through abstractions or vagueness when people will still read between the lines. I do think that a lot of this could have been avoided. "Common sense" just ain't what it used to be.  |
||
|
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Quite the misnomer, Brad, calling sense "common." |
||
|
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
It might surprise you, Tim, to discover I agree with your overall point (while disagreeing with a fair number of tangential points), and have said much the same thing on more than one occasion. If we want people to feel safe to express an opinion, we can't afford to condemn anyone for expressing an opinion. If we want to receive respect, we have to be willing to first give it. I would sincerely like to believe that if someone jumps into my pool without looking they will find themselves swimming with dolphins, not sharks. However, in defense of the indefensible, human nature isn't so easily manipulated. Ever have someone stand before your bench after taking a swing at a policeman? Chances are he wasn't standing very well, because we all know that when violence erupts there is no such thing as "a" policeman. Circling the wagons is a pretty common response to perceived threats. I honestly appreciate your reminder, Tim, that everyone in the pool should act a bit more like dolphins and little less like sharks. I hope people will take it to heart and remember your admonishments in the future. And that's neither condescension nor arrogance, though I suspect you may think otherwise. Still, when someone comes along and starts poking the dolphins with a stick, I'm not going to be too surprised when the dolphins poke back. And if the individual keeps right on poking? My only recourse is to get them the hell out of the pool as quickly as I can. Goldenrose has poked his last dolphin in this pool. Strangely, I don't seem to have the patience I did five years ago. Or maybe it's not so strange? ARH alluded to "why people are leaving PiP" and "I wonder why everyone is at a loss as to the reason why?" The implication is that I don't know why and, more, that I don't want anyone to leave. They're leaving because their goals don't mesh with our goals, and life would be a whole lot simpler if everyone would just leave when they found themselves at irreconcilable odds with our philosophies. This place isn't a monolith being built, and I have no desire to change people who don't want to be changed. I just want a place where like-minded people can enjoy poetry. Of all the disgruntled people recently departed, there is exactly one name I regret losing. While the rest will remain respected friends, they are friends who NEVER belonged in this setting. Why should I want a friend to stay where they are unhappy? Why should I want a friend to stay and make everyone else equally unhappy? In leaving, I believe they made the right choice. For them, and for us. I honestly wish a few others would show the same wisdom. I'm certainly not sorry to see Goldenrose leave, intentionally or otherwise. I am sorry, however, that his vitriol escalated a simple misunderstanding into something unnecessarily hurtful. I find it ironic that he kept telling others to "butt out" when his own involvement was much less than peripheral to the original complaint. He wanted to be a knight in shining armor, fighting someone else's battle for them, and I find no fault in that, only irony. Sadly, he was an inadequate and unchivalrous knight, doing far more to hurt ARH's cause than to help it. It's a pity, too, because I think ARH's complaint was a valid one. I long ago asked our critiquers to NOT question someone's decision to turn off their critique flag. I think it is simply impolite to raise those questions, especially in public, and could almost be viewed as harassment. It's a bit like asking someone in the office on a date and then grilling them when they say no. Trouble is, I didn't envision the possibility of conflicting messages being sent, and that lack of vision is entirely my own fault. What do you do when you ask someone on a date and they say Yes while they continue to vigorously shake their head No? In retrospect, I think it's fairly clear that ARH didn't understand what a critique is, at least within the context of our forums. There's certainly no fault to be found in that. But I also don't think there's any fault to be found in Severn asking for clarification. I mean, what would YOU do if someone said Yes while shaking their head No? The only alternative to asking is assuming. I do, however, suspect Kamla should probably have stopped with the first question and waited for an answer. "What if a person doesn't actually have anything 'nice' to say?" carries implications I'm pretty sure were never meant to be taken literally. But then, I'm pretty sure of that only because I know Kamla, and I suspect she, too, can see where rhetorical questions can be easily misconstrued when the speaker isn't known well enough. I think she's clearly said, a few times now, that her intent was never to hurt. By the by, while I'm perfectly willing to hear other opinions, I personally think Severn's final question in that thread was valid even when the critique flag is NOT checked. "What does it mean?" is a good question to ask at any time. Of course, there's also nothing wrong with the author refusing to answer. Questions don't impose obligations, but that shouldn't mean the questions can't still be asked. Others may disagree? In ARH's original thread, she expressed concern about new Members perhaps misunderstanding the critique flag as she had misunderstood it. That's a valid concern, as yet unaddressed. There's a short paragraph in your Profiles, directly above the two critique prompts, that could perhaps be better worded so misunderstandings don't occur. I welcome suggestions. I would also welcome suggestions on how we can encourage people to actually read it. What I'm not prepared to do, however, is removed choices for everyone because some might not understand the choices being offered. Even if that would prevent all misunderstandings, which we all know it wouldn't, it would still be the wrong answer. I would like to think that when misunderstandings inevitably occur, they can be resolved without rancor. And maybe with Goldenrose now excised, that hope can become a reality? |
||
|
A Romantic Heart Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-03
Posts 5496Forever In Your Heart |
Thanks Ron, That is all I needed was to be understood..some understanding. Thanks for seeing the point of my orginal post. It was never my intentions for all of this to get so far out of hand... Just to be listened too and acknowledged, understood is peace for me. Open your eyes, open your mind, open your heart, let me come in and show you love.....~ARH |
||
|
passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
whew! now I remember why I stay out of the discussion forums as much as I can..just popped in to see if there was anything important that I was missing...I'm leaving now to go back to the poetry...but one note first... Ron, you sure do have to write a lot to explain stuff around here...that's a shame. Thanks for your continuous patience and understanding. I hate it when the site must shut down for a cooling off period, because of a few people, all of us suffer. Hang in there! |
||
Michelle_loves_Mike
since 2003-12-20
Posts 1189Pennsylvania |
Tim, no one like to be ridiculed,,,,even if it is only seen as a ridicule to them alone. Some times things are taken out of context, to whether its a personal attack or not,,,,thats the bad thing about the computer,,,the words are there to read,,but the facial expressions and body language aren't,,,, take care Michelle I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike |
||
bslicker
since 2000-12-04
Posts 2321state of mind |
Gosh, this topic and the threads involved, time to leave reading about it. So I guess I will just go back to reading and posting like I did before this topic started. Because I think questions and answers were given within the very first topic of this discussion. I guess I will just continue to write my posts and write my repies the way I have since I been here at PIP. Just want to be a dolphin I guess, as Ron put it. By the way good example Ron. Oh yea I decided not stop building computers, servers, and networks and go back to school, to become one that has a degree in English. I think I am smart enough, it takes all of us to live in this world. As John Lennon has said in the song "Imagine". Oh and his wife on the Grammies backed that up.... Bernie A smile a day keeps the world in smile's. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Um, where did he say that in "Imagine"? |
||
|
2writeis2be Junior Member
since 2004-01-11
Posts 45Live in London, but from TX |
This thread and others on here are healthy and good to see in my opinion. It is communication. Expression. People should be aloud to voice their opinions, rightly or wrongly and say what they like, as long as it isn't totally mean and full of contempt. A forum is a gathering place for readers and writers alike, a place where people should be able to talk freely. Seems to me PIP is having alot of conflicts atm and members leaving because certain members and moderators(cliques that have formed too)are trying to censor "freedom of speech" as well as freedom of thought. Seems that whatever anyone says, somebody else has a go at them. Ridiculous really--why can't people on PIP just be aloud to post what they want? Most of the time it gets all blown out of proportion by somebody being way over-sensitive. It all seems like thought control lately--as one guy mentioned awhile back. It's a bit off-putting seeing everyone attacking everyone over little subjects of discussion. All those people who get bothered by things people say shouldn't be reading in the forums other than the poetry if that's the case. Discussions obviously aren't for them.Save themselves from getting all upset about nothing. Just let people be and say what they want. I think if that theory was applied, there wouldn't be quite as much arguing.  But whatever"Why don't you try and learn from my mistakes? It takes half a lifetime to learn from your own." |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
