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Passions in Poetry

New Members/Open 30,31, Critiqued

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A Romantic Heart
Member Ascendant
since 09-03-99
Posts 5497
Forever In Your Heart


0 posted 01-26-2004 01:52 AM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart


Agh!!!! This just burns me up!

I don't know if anyone has noticed, lately in open 30, 31..there seems to be more critical opinions than before....to me...that is what the forum Critical Analysis 2, is for..Posting poems there to be cut..chopped etc.(For me personally, if I wanted my poems to be mircroscoped by professionals I would post in that specific forum)

I chose to post in open 30, 31..because the atmosphere is more family, friendly and yes more open, accepting.I write poetry...for the fun of it..leisure..sharing..connecting.That is why I choose open 30, 31.

Most New poets....( I feel sorry for them) they are sometimes unaware of the box for critique or what this really means etc.(maybe thinking it is for just receiving friendly replies,after sitting back and watching open before posting,(which is one of the rules before posting to read and reply to about ten poems) one would assume this being new here.)

I am afraid PIP will loose these New poets fast! when they post their first poems in open and someone comes along being too critical or harsh, hurting their feelings etc...Poets are more sensitive than other people! and even more sensitive because they are new and trying to fit in without looking like a sore thumb.To me they already feel that their poetry is not good enough to post and it takes alot of courage to put it out there..because you are putting your heart out there, when people don't like your poem..you feel they don't like your heart.

To sum this up, I just want to love these people and be friends..offering a home for their heart..and I don't want them to feel that it is stepped on the minute they enter the door!

I want their first impression at PIP to be a good one..and most of the time their first post is followed by a long line of welcomes.....It is just my opinion that you can be critical without being rude...and if you want to be an English Professor to everyone here..go find your class in the right forum to critique..in Critical Analysis....

Thank you...I feel better....no longer burning...




Open your eyes, open your mind, open your heart, let me come in and show you love.....~ARH
Michelle_loves_Mike
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 12-20-2003
Posts 1200
Pennsylvania


1 posted 01-26-2004 09:52 AM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

from what I've seen, first posts get big hellos and warm welcomes,,,,,
sometimes, people put their critical two cents worth in where it wasn't asked, not just here,,,,,,
hopefully, the ones getting the critiques take them with a grain of salt, and soak in the warm fuzzies from others
Michelle

I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike

Greeneyes
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-09-2000
Posts 10848
In Your Poetic Mind


2 posted 01-26-2004 10:33 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

ARH

if the box is checked to accept it then that is the poets decision, if not then I'd agree.... hugssss


Lauren~


I lie awake at night
I reach out to touch
Feel you by my side
I reach I never feel you
Will I ever get to feel you again
Just one more time
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 01-26-2004 10:52 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

It's usually a mistake, I think, to project our own motivations onto others. Some people post here simply to share, that's true, but many others post primarily because they want to learn to write better. Our other forums, like Critical Analysis or Teen, serve a purpose, but that doesn't mean we should exclude the participants in those forums from Open Poetry. Open Poetry is, well, open.

We can't assume we "know" what others want when they post in the forums, nor should we assume others will "know" what we want. The critique flag and, especially, the critique message exist so everyone can better convey what they want.
Goldenrose
Member Elite
since 05-30-2003
Posts 3637


4 posted 01-27-2004 05:48 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

There IS a subtle difference in giving people gentle advice about poetry, but then there is the ''i-know-everything- because -i have -got - a English-degree and- i am -going- to use-it-if -it kills-me'' people that just tear new poets to shreds...they only want to see their work on screen..not be savaged...i challenge even the most hardened of poets NOT to be upset at strong criticism..poetry is often about confidence and if that confidence is habitualy demoralised the poets will not post and PIP will be the loser..i agree with ARH wholeheartedly...pass on gentle crtique NOT savage them..but then maybe the people savaging them get a big fat ego rush...losers..!

Goldenrose.

''Each soul is potentialy divine..the goal is to manifest that divinity''

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


5 posted 01-27-2004 07:00 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

So, Goldenrose, you're telling us that all the people who specifically ASK for a no-holds-barred critique of their work are essentially liars? Or maybe just stupid?

I think anytime someone tries to tell us what others want, we need to remember they are -- at best -- just guessing. If we but recognize and embrace our diversity, everyone can take from this site what they most need, without depriving others of what they most want.
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


6 posted 01-28-2004 03:09 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Well, Goldenrose.

I have an English degree and you know what? I'm bloody proud of it. I worked really damned hard for four years and I have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to poetry and literature. I am not remotely ashamed to use that knowledge here. How dare you disparage what many people on this site have worked so hard to attain. How dare you make the assumption that people who are educated have ego problems, and think they're better than anyone else when they offer advice based on the knowledge that they have worked so hard to learn.

I critique people in Open, in fact ARH, I do believe I critiqued YOU recently in Open. Did it perhaps not go down so well? If people have their critique flags checked, I for one will critique them if I am so inclined. Most people will be quite aware of what a critique message means, and if they're not they'll soon find out won't they. As for this: 'poets are more sensitive than other people.' With all due respect, that is one of the most absurd statements I have ever read. Would you like to show me your evidence to support that?

In all honestly, ARH, you have played the part of the noble protector for the poor, uninitiated newbies, while managing (along with Goldenrose) to malign and alienate those who like to offer a little more meat in their replies.

Absolute hypocrisy.

(Ps: 'but then there is the ''i-know-everything- because -i have -got - a English-degree and- i am -going- to use-it-if -it kills-me'' people that just tear new poets to shreds.' I don't know of any member who tears new poets to shreds. Got any examples, Goldenrose? I'd be interested to know exactly what you think tearing to shreds means.)



[This message has been edited by Severn (01-28-2004 04:06 AM).]

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


7 posted 01-28-2004 06:16 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Hey Severn.  About time you got back into one or two of mine and whipped them up right and tight, don't you think?     I mean heck, I even posted in CA for you!

Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


8 posted 01-28-2004 12:00 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Personally, (although I have a minor in English and Lit. ) I choose not to critique.  That is my personal thing.  Because I am an adult and can choose.  Also, because I am a somewhat mature adult, I can and will read and dismiss replies to my stuff without water works, if I disagree with it.  

I was just wondering though, if someone can't handle a critique of their poetry, how do they funtion in todays world?  Work, school, family, strangers....

Duncan
Member Ascendant
since 08-07-2001
Posts 5716


9 posted 01-28-2004 05:47 PM       View Profile for Duncan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Duncan

Well, I'm not posting in CA but I'd welcome a Kamla critique anytime...
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


10 posted 01-28-2004 08:47 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

be careful what you wish for D.
Greeneyes
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-09-2000
Posts 10848
In Your Poetic Mind


11 posted 01-28-2004 10:57 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

I have an English Degree; in fact, I have 2 degrees, a minor, and now going for a third.  I, too, worked hard for all of them!  I do not analyze either, but not because I do not think, I can, just because I do not.  I have the box checked to mine, anyone and everyone can analyze me it will make me a better writer to hear truth.  

I lie awake at night
I reach out to touch
Feel you by my side
I reach I never feel you
Will I ever get to feel you again
Just one more time

Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


12 posted 01-28-2004 11:14 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

and what is the purpose of the critiquer?

Goldenrose
Member Elite
since 05-30-2003
Posts 3637


13 posted 01-29-2004 06:06 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

Firstly ...severn....where exactly in my post did i even MENTION your name?....unlike you i do not name names...but since you already thought that way you must have a somewhat guilty mind....

But i will move on to say that since you named me in this i am now(Through this post) asking the other administrators to have you removed from PIP as you have obviously transgressed the PIP rules by openly attacking me....the diference between us is that i had the sensitivity not to name names where as you show us your way of dealing with things....

Another thing that i would like to take issue with you is you statement: ''Most people will be quite aware of what a critique message is and if they dont they'll soon find out wont they''....this alone shows a totaly and utter lack of respect for the poets involved..AND shows and amply demonstrates that you deliberately SET OUT to undermine peoples feelings and it also shows us that your actions were done in a premedatated manner....your actions were fully realised and understood before you passed on your critique...cause and effect and you were more interseted in the effect beacuse of your possibly inflated ego....

Evidence to support that there are sensitive poets...again here you demonstrate your lack of understanding of human nature...not every human is the same...some are more robust than others.... so your question and argument are hard to quantify...like saying ''how long is a piece of string''...wouldnt it be a dull world if we were all the same?....but that is the beauty of human life we are individual people ..but you seem to treat people all the same and dont care one jot about how you maybe making a person feel.....

Finaly you say that it is better for people to have a little more meat in their critique..here again you are ASSUMING what people are wanting to hear and being overly presumptious....if you were to look at ARH's profile you may have been aware that she is sensitive....but for someone with an english degree you seem to find it difficult to follow simple instructions and logic....yes you do put meat into your critiques...but you may need to reduce some of the vile poison you lace it with....

Goldenrose.

''Each soul is potentialy divine..the goal is to manifest that divinity''

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


14 posted 01-29-2004 09:28 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
asking the other administrators to have you removed from PIP as you have obviously transgressed the PIP rules by openly attacking me

Actually, if you read a little more closely, you should be able to see that Severn attacked various statements made by others, not the individuals who made the statements. The closest she came to a personal attack was the hypocrisy crack, which was both unnecessarily and frankly, more than a little illogical. IMO, that was over the line.

You, on the other hand, are dangerously close to the line when you assign qualities (inflated ego) or motivations (premeditated meanness) to a person, rather than to the statements they've made. I strongly suggest you read the Guidelines for the Alley before you return to it again, and learn the difference between attacking the issues and the person. Those differences may be subtle ones, but we feel they are important.

I'm closing this thread as an example of how NOT to argue issues in the Alley. If any of the participants would like to continue their disagreements in a new thread, they are free to do so -- after studying the Guidelines a little more closely.

The issue is critiques, not the person who makes them and certainly not the motivations for making them. Argue the issue or don't argue at all.
A Romantic Heart will be notified of replies
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