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Stupid is as Stupid does, Sir

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0 posted 11-01-2006 09:43 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

It is no secret to any that have paid attention the past fe years that I am a died in the wool supporter of hating poor people... oh, I'm sorry... I meant to say Republican...yet this thing with John Kerry has me stumped for reasons passing political party lines.
In case anyone missed it, he snapped a comment about the uneducated being stuck in Iraq, and now there is all sorts of political fall-out.
He is saying he was misunderstood, and that it was a botched attempt at a joke on the President. Honestly, even though I am a Republican and should be estatic about this, I can honestly see where he was heading with it.
My question/comment is: Why doesn't he just apologize and GET IT OVER WITH!!!!!!!
The Republicans were hoping for an October Surprise, and he handed it to them. Had he apologized, and not been so arrogant and confrontational, it would have been over.

You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first.
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1 posted 11-01-2006 01:07 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I absolutely agree with you, Ringo, and though I've certainly never been a fan of Kerry or the Democratic Party establishment in general and do believe candidates of both parties DO say outrageous things they mean, like Howard Dean with the Democrats and Dick Cheney with the GOP, I respect you in that you've shown restraint from what others are doing in taking his words, taking them out of context and using them as a political football, and rather look at the common sense argument to why Kerry should apologize.

What surprises me especially is that here we have a man known for his extensive, equivocal vocabulary and manner of talking, and yet he unnecessarily and incoherently addresses his thoughts here, which I find to be down-right embarrassing more than anything.

Having said that, there are two things I want to point out here.

WAVE 3 TV Louisville, Kentucky: October 31, 2006

Firstly, having just read what he was saying before this particular excerpt that has been subject of this controversy, I find it's plainly apparent that he was directing that comment at Bush, NOT the troops.

That doesn't excuse him from that I find his comments equally as childish as those made by Bush and Rumsfeld about Iraq recently, but ever so often we fail to read around a particular comment to understand the general context of what one's saying, and when you read this, I find it quite clear Bush is the subject of ridicule, and NOT once does he denigrate the honor of our young men and women in uniform.

Secondly, Kerry's actual joke was meant to be read like THIS:


I>"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."


I 100% agree Kerry should apologize, but NOT because he said anything offensive (he didn't) but simply because I believe it would be good for the American public in an already terrible dirty election season, and should be the common sense-minded thing to do more than anything.


As an aside, I ultimately think Kerry's comment won't affect the elections six days from now much except in boldening those intending to vote for the other party, as well as make a handful of swing voters nationally who were thinking about voting this season but heard childish words from both sides and then happen to experience blizzard weather on Election Day will decide to stay home, believing it's not worth it driving through the snow and waiting hours in the library just to vote for the lesser of two childish politicians.

Both parties have their problems right now; the GOP is struggling with the issues of Iraq and a recent Foley scandal in particular, and the Democrats are seen widely as having no alternatives that would benefit the country, and because I believe the problems our nation is facing are so varied and culminated, this particular blurb will, in the end, have very limited effect, especially in that most voters will recognize Kerry is not up for re-election this season, and will reject the straw-man argument that the Democratic Party in general frowns upon our troops, when in fact both parties care and honor them very much despite some ideological disagreements.

Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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2 posted 11-01-2006 02:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Secondly, Kerry's actual joke was meant to be read like THIS:

"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

Actually, Noah, that's about the third revision I've seen. Here's another one:

Kerry told the students that if they studied hard they could do well, but if they didn't "you get stuck in Iraq." His office said he neglected to add the punch line: "Just ask President Bush." ]

Kerry's office is trying so hard to cover it up they can't even get their stories straight.

Why should anyone be surprised that Kerry would insult American troops? It's not the first time...

WASHINGTON – In accusations about American troops reminiscent of what the young John Kerry said to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971, the senator and 2004 Democratic presidential nominee told CBS "Face the Nation" host Bob Schieffer there was no reason for U.S. soldiers to continue "terrorizing" Iraqi children.

"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the – of – the historical customs, religious customs," Kerry said Sunday. "Whether you like it or not ... Iraqis should be doing that."

All of this, of course, pales in comparison to what he did to the troops in Viet-Nam.

"They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals , cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Kahn, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side... We are ashamed of and hated what we were called on to do in Southeast Asia."

"The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history." [/b]

A comprehensive 1980 survey by the VA reported that 91% of those who had seen combat in Vietnam were "glad they had served their country." 80% disagreed with the statement that "the U.S. took advantage of me." 66% said they would serve again. As to the effects of their service many said it made them more ambitious, more determined to make something of their lives, that it made them more serious and that they appreciated America more, valued life more. Does this sound like men who were "used?"

Kerry was just telling it like it was, you may say? Oh, really....?

[b]Kerry described the Winter Soldier event in Detroit as “an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.” The veterans, said Kerry, “had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.” He accused America of being "more guilty than any other body of violations of [the] Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam." Kerry referred to war criminal Lt. William Calley as "a man who followed orders and who interpreted those orders no differently than hundreds of other men in Vietnam," and concluded by calling on his fellow veterans to "conquer the hate and the fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more."

Most of Kerry's remarks before the committee were published later in 1971 in the book "The New Soldier," credited to “John Kerry and Vietnam Veterans Against The War.” The book also included a timeline and photographs of the march on D.C. and excerpts from the Winter Soldier testimony. A documentary of the Detroit event was later released as "Winter Soldier," winning awards at the Cannes and Berlin film festivals.

Whether in print, on film, before microphones or on the street, the efforts of Kerry and the VVAW focused on a single objective: to convince the public that America’s military was committing vast numbers of atrocities in Vietnam; that they did so casually and routinely, as a matter of policy.

And they succeeded. Many American soldiers returned home from the war to find they were spat upon in the streets, reviled as baby-killers, and treated as pariahs by former friends. For decades the standard media image of a Vietnam veteran -- murderous, addicted, and too damaged psychologically to cope with civilian life -- was taken directly from the dark canvas painted by John Kerry and the VVAW in 1971.

But strangely, all those horrific accounts of rape, torture, arson and slaughter that the VVAW had recorded in Detroit seemed to evaporate once the real investigation demanded by Senator Hatfield began. As recounted in Guenter Lewy's 1978 book “America in Vietnam,” few witnesses agreed to talk with military investigators, even after being assured that they would not be asked about their own crimes. Many of those who did permit interviews turned out never to have been in combat. Some of the most gruesome claims came from men who were imposters using the names of real Vietnam veterans. One Marine who had been in combat eventually told investigators that a member of the Nation of Islam had helped prepare his statement, and admitted that he had never witnessed any of the atrocities he had testified to in Detroit. In the end, the Navy was unable to verify any of the hundreds of war crimes alleged by the Winter Soldier Investigation. Neither has anyone else during the 33 years since, including journalists, historians, and military and Congressional investigators.

In fact, the entire Winter Soldier Investigation that John Kerry represented so memorably before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was a fraud; a propaganda effort designed to horrify America into abandoning the war in Vietnam by poisoning public opinion against a generation of American soldiers.

As one of those soldiers who returned, Noah, I can assure you we all despise Kerry for the reception we received.

In Pelosi's comment about calling Bush and Congress "criminals", you stated there was nothing wrong with that and  you defend and excuse Kerry's remarks while proclaming your non-biased political stance. Please......

Kerry screwed up....period. He opened his mouth and shoved his foot so far down shoeleather touched his testicles. All he had to do was apologize and it would have gone away. Instead he decides not to apologize and go on the attack to cover his own screw-up with insults and name-calling which does nothing more than make matters worse. This is the man who would have been President? Now THAT'S scary!
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3 posted 11-01-2006 02:35 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Moved to the Alley.
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