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Passions in Poetry

True and Tree

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Essorant
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0 posted 02-05-2004 01:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Word History:
"The words true and tree are joined at the root, etymologically speaking. In Old English, the words looked and sounded much more alike than they do now: “tree” was trow and “true” was trowe. The first of these comes from the Germanic noun *trewam; the second, from the adjective *treuwaz. Both these Germanic words ultimately go back to an Indo-European root *deru- or *dreu-, appearing in derivatives referring to wood and, by extension, firmness. Truth may be thought of as something firm; so too can certain bonds between people, like trust, another derivative of the same root. A slightly different form of the root, *dru-, appears in the word druid, a type of ancient Celtic priest; his name is etymologically *dru-wid-, or “strong seer.”  [Dictionary.com]


Perhaps looking at old roots like this may help clear up what is "true" and "truth" in a philosophical sense.  Sometimes people seem to suggest truth is absolute, but either way the root comes more from firmness like a tree; and what do trees stand on?--  Roots!      
Janet Marie
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1 posted 02-05-2004 03:42 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

It is as much the forest's beauty, as it is the emanation of wisdom & truth from old trees, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit.

~Robert Louis Stevenson~


Trees emanate possibility; For as their feet are rooted firmly on the ground, they are allowed their heads in the clouds.

~K. Taplin~


What we are doing to the forests of the world is but a mirror reflection of what we are doing to ourselves and to one another.

~Gandhi~


There is a pleasure in the pathless woods.
There is a rapture on the lonely shore.
I love not man the less ... but Nature more.

Lord Byron

Essorant
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2 posted 02-07-2004 12:52 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Thank you sweet Janet
Essorant
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3 posted 02-07-2004 01:31 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

More Word-Lore:

Book and Beech

Word History: From an etymological perspective, book and beech are branches of the same tree. The Germanic root of both words is *bk-, ultimately from an Indo-European root meaning “beech tree.” The Old English form of book is bc, from Germanic *bk-, “written document, book.” The Old English form of beech is bce, from Germanic *bk-jn, “beech tree,” because the early Germanic peoples used strips of beech wood to write on. A similar semantic development occurred in Latin. The Latin word for book is liber, whence library. Liber, however, originally meant “bark”that is, the smooth inner bark of a tree, which the early Romans likewise used to write on. [dictionary.com]

Janet Marie
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4 posted 02-07-2004 07:19 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Ess ... you make me poetry loving, tree hugging heart smile.



There is a pleasure in the pathless woods.
There is a rapture on the lonely shore.
I love not man the less ... but Nature more.

Lord Byron

serenity blaze
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5 posted 02-07-2004 04:41 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I love this sort of thing, Ess.

It brought to mind an interest of mine-- Gematria (numerical calculation of Hebrew letters and the resulting correspondences)

If you like this sort of thing you might want to look into that if you haven't already.

Essorant
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6 posted 03-17-2004 07:33 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The Original "Sin"

"The English word sin derives from Old English synn. The same root appears in several other Germanic languages, e.g. Old Norse synd, or German Sünde. The word may derive, ultimately, from *es-, one of the Indo-European roots that meant "to be," and is a present participle, "being." Latin, also has an old present participle of esse in the word sons, sont-, which came to mean "guilty" in Latin. The root meaning would appear to be, "it is true;" that is, "the charge has been proven." The Greek word hamartia is often translated as sin in the New Testament; it means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target"."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin]
Opeth
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7 posted 03-18-2004 11:58 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Hey Ess, look up where the word Easter originated from... and no, it is not biblical.

"You sleep in the night yet the night and the silent water still so dark."

Opeth
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8 posted 03-19-2004 04:23 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html

~ I already knew this without knowing of this site. Easter is not biblical, but merely a pagan celebration (ala christmas) used by so-called christians to celebrate the true biblical holy day (smugishly called "Jewish"), Passover.

"You sleep in the night yet the night and the silent water still so dark."

Essorant
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9 posted 03-19-2004 04:25 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Everything doesn't need to be biblical to be religious, Opeth.
Opeth
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10 posted 03-19-2004 04:28 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

For sure, Ess. But to christians, I say this, how can you keep cold water hot? The water must be made hot first.

Are you saying that your Elohim condones his people to take pagan rituals and holy days to honor Him? Better check your bible first before you answer.

"You sleep in the night yet the night and the silent water still so dark."

Local Rebel
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11 posted 03-19-2004 05:42 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Why should it concern me Opeth?
Essorant
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12 posted 03-19-2004 10:55 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It doesn't look like the english Easter referred to the same goddess as Ishtar did, despite the word-similarities and associations.

[edit]
This page cleared me up a bit.  
http://thewordsofeternallife.com/easter.html

Opeth, Thanks for bringing this topic up.  I think it is important to delve into the roots of things like this for a better understanding.



[This message has been edited by Essorant (03-20-2004 02:38 AM).]

Stephanos
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13 posted 03-24-2004 08:49 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Essorant...


Interestingly enough, the Judeo-Christian concept of Truth (and it's challenge) is centered around a couple of trees ... in the book of Genesis.


Stephen.
Opeth
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14 posted 03-30-2004 08:31 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Why should it concern me Opeth?"

~ Please be more specific... if you want to, that is.


"You sleep in the night yet the night and the silent water still so dark."

Local Rebel
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15 posted 03-30-2004 07:24 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Not a big deal Opeth -- it just seems you're leaping off the thread.  I don't see the tie-in on your last post.  Discussing the origins of the word Easter is one thing -- getting into Christian worship seems a bit of a wander.  IMO
Essorant
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16 posted 04-11-2004 03:33 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Giddy and God!


"Word History: The word giddy refers to fairly lightweight experiences or situations, but at one time it had to do with profundities.  Giddy can be traced back to the same Germanic root *gud- that has given us the word God. The Germanic word *gudigaz formed on this root meant “possessed by a god.” Such possession can be a rather unbalancing experience, and so it is not surprising that the Old English descendant of *gudigaz, gidig, meant “mad, possessed by an evil spirit,” or that the Middle English development of gidig, gidi, meant the same thing, as well as “foolish; mad (used of an animal); dizzy; uncertain, unstable.” Our sense “lighthearted, frivolous” represents the ultimate secularization of giddy."
[from dictionary.com]
Essorant
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17 posted 05-07-2004 03:14 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Heaven and Hell

From:

[http://hss.fullerton.edu/comparative/heaven_hell.pdf]


..."The word heaven we use today is a direct descendent of the Old English word heofon which had it’s roots in the Old Saxon word heban.  From this point back the exact etymology of the word is unknown. Heban was most likely a variant of the Proto-Germanic word *hibin which was a dissimilated form of *himin. The Proto-Germanic word *himin was a probable variant of the Indo-European word *ke-men, which meant“the stony vault of heaven.”  *Ke-men, however, was derived from *ak-men, meaningsharp stone, which was the suffixed form of *ak meaning sharp.  So, at its roots, heaven is a relative of words like edge, egg, needle, acute, hammer, acrid, eager, vinegar, acid,acme, acne, acro-, and oxygen, all of these having sharp, bitter, or sour characteristics in common.

"However there are still other interpretations of where the word heaven came from. In German, the word for heaven is himmel, in Dutch hemel. It is thought that these words came from the Proto-Germanic word *hemina.  *Hemina in turn is thought to have come form the Teutonic word *hama(n) which was a derivative of the Indo-Europen*kem/*kam meaning to cover.   Therefore, this version of heaven would have relatives in such words as chemise and camisa.

"One of the two possible connections between the variations in the modern words heaven and himil may be explained by the presence of missionaries. In the 725 Old Saxon language, there were two known versions of the word heaven: heban and himil.  Heban, as mentioned previously, was a descendent of the Proto-Germanic *himin which in turn came from the Indo-Europen *ak. The presence of himil in Old Saxon was due to the German missionaries in England who spoke High German.  It is important to note that during this time in history, before and during the middle ages, the main focus of society was on religion, more specifically, Christianity, therefore, there was ample opportunity for himil to be introduced into the Old Saxon/Old English language and literature.  

"The second possible connection between the two variations in heaven is an OldNorse word, hifinn. Hifinn was thought to be “the missing link” between himil and heban but up to now there seems to be no proof that the word hifinn ever existed.  So until themissing link is found, no connection between himil, hifinn, and heban can be verified. In fact there are even those who believe that there is no connection at all between the twoversions of heaven or its variations.

"To see the connection between the words heaven and hell, one must look at the Indo-European roots. Heaven’s root *kem meant to cover which is how/why it was applied to the sky, because people saw the sky as a cover or canopy over the earth. Hell’s Indo-European root is *kel which also means to cover or conceal. From *kel the word went to its zero grade form *kol. It is from this word that the Proto-Germanic word,*haljo, meaning the underworld or concealed place, emerged. From the Proto-Germanic word, two different offshoots occurred. One was the Gothic word halja; the second wasthe Anglo-Saxon word helan which evolved into the Old Saxon hellia. From hellia, theword changed once more during Old English to the word we still have today, hell. In addition to this etymological line, there is the Teutonic base word *hel meaning to hide that changed into the Teutonic word *halja/halja meaning to cover up or hide.

"Hell’s roots makes hell a vernacular relative of such words as hall, hull, hole, hollow, holster, apocalypse, eucalyptus, helmet, occult, cell, cellar, and conceal. All words with connotations of being hidden, enclosed, in the ground, or covered, so from the beginning, hell’s meaning was associated with something hidden, covered or concealed.

"In the Bible, hell is used for the word “grave” thirty-one times.  Hell is also described as a prison (1 Pet. 3:19) with gates and bars and locks (Matt 16:18; Rev. 1:18), once again associating it with it a cell or enclosure. Besides the Bible, there are other instances in literature where hell becomes something underground, covered, or concealed.

"One of the most well known descriptions of hell is Dante’s Inferno, written in 1308. In the Inferno we have the story of a pilgrim who is searching for a path to God but is blocked by a she-wolf and other creatures. He is then led through the circles of hell in order to reach Mt. Purgatory so that he can then get to heaven. The pilgrim’s guide through the novel is the poet Virgil. Virgil explains that hell is set up as a series of descending concentric circles, which requires they begin at hell’s top (where those being punished for lesser offenses are) and make their way down into the pit of hell before they can make their way out again." ...


[This message has been edited by Essorant (05-07-2004 04:00 PM).]

Essorant
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18 posted 05-07-2004 07:55 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I found that page very interesting.  

But I wonder why there are no possible connections pondered between the word heaven and the words haven, heave, and have, that all look like they have the same "Indo-European" Root.  
Aenimal
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19 posted 05-08-2004 01:23 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Karen I've always been fascinated by Gematria, it is one of the most remarkable creations of man.
Essorant
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20 posted 05-08-2004 03:27 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I hope she comes back to the forum soon.
Essorant
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21 posted 05-27-2004 02:03 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Bliss and Blithe, Bless and Blood

Bliss and bless are two words whose meanings came to comingle, but not from the same root historically.
Bliss is different shape of bliths, that is from blithe "happy" (cf liths (from lithe) > liss; betst > best; godspell > gospel; godsibb > gossip.  Not all same changes, but similarities) There was also a verb: blissian --to rejoice  Blissa! (that is imperative "Rejoice!")

The verb bless, however, comes of OE bletsian.  And bletsian comes of a deeper root in germanic blodan "blood" (cf OE blot "sacrifice") Therefore the verb letterally seems as the modern word "bleed" (as in "deem" from "doom") but in context of  sacrifice, by pagans when blood was believed sacred energy, which the influence of "bliss" and Christianity should come to find a greater and more religious sense, but still retain a sense of finding earthen prosperity, receiving for giving.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (05-27-2004 03:12 PM).]

Essorant
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22 posted 07-01-2004 01:50 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

King and Kin


Kin (race) + ing/ling (diminutive suffix) = King

Here is the Indo-European root: http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE143.html

Throughout the deepest roots of "king" there is no determination meaning "male!"

However, regarding Queen (and quean) dictionary.com saith:

"Queen and quean sound alike, are spelled almost identically, and both refer to women, but of wildly different kinds. Queen comes from Old English cwn, pronounced (kwn), “queen, wife of a king,” and comes from Germanic *kwn-iz, “woman, wife, queen.” Quean comes from Old English cwene, pronounced (kwn), “woman, female, female serf” from the eleventh century on it was also used to mean “prostitute.” The Germanic source of cwene is *kwen-n-, “woman, wife.” Once established, the pejorative sense of quean drove out its neutral senses and especially in the 16th and 17th centuries it was used almost solely to refer to prostitutes. Around the same time, in many English dialects the pronunciation of queen and quean became identical, leading to the obsolescence of the latter term except in some regions. The Germanic root for both words, *kwen-, “woman,” comes by Grimm's Law from the Indo-European root *gwen-, “woman,” which appears in at least two other English words borrowed from elsewhere in the Indo-European family. One is gynecology, from Greek gun, “woman.” Another, less obvious, one is banshee, “woman of the fairies,” the wailing female spirit attendant on a death, from Old Irish ben, “woman.”

So by the roots of "King", being of kin, literally Women are Kings too!
  
Men, however, are excluded from being Queens    
iliana
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23 posted 07-01-2004 02:01 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

What a really interesting thread this is.  I'll be back to read all the posts, little by little.  Thanks for all the useful information.  .......jo
Arnold M
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24 posted 04-27-2005 01:44 AM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Essorant, your word history is excellent.  Regarding "hell", and its root meaning of
"hidden" or "covering", even today farmers "hell" their potatoes for the winter.
That is, they cover them in the ground.  And in England, when they have to rethatch their roof, they "hell" their roof.

You say in the Bible hell is used for the word "grave" thirty one times.  By "the Bible" you must mean the King James Version.
If the idea of "hidden" or "covering" was under stood today in all places in the KJV where "hell" is the translated, or interpreted word, what a difference it would make in our theology today, I believe.

Look how it is taught, in some circles, that Jesus, during his death, descended into hell,
a place of burning fire and sulfur, supposedly in the lower parts of the earth.

The meaning of "hell" changed the above meaning to a place of firey torment, probably because "geenna" in the Gk, was translated "hell", yet is not a covering or hidden.  Thus, in the KJV, Jesus warns of being cast into the fire of hell.

Arnold
 
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