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Essorant
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25 posted 04-29-2005 01:10 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Arnold

That is interesting.  

I know of the word helan "to conceal" from Old English, but didn't know any such verb was still used in modern English.

It seems hell (the noun) today though is much more like geenna, and that men say with hell that God uses a "geenna" of his own.  This though seems too contradictory to almightiness.

Why would God use a geenna in his almightiness, instead of his own almightiness?  


[This message has been edited by Essorant (04-29-2005 02:25 PM).]

Arnold M
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26 posted 05-01-2005 08:02 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Essorant, I'm not sure I know what you mean by "Why would God use a geenna in his almightiness, instead of his almightiness?"

Arnold
Essorant
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27 posted 05-02-2005 01:58 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I mean God has his own might and main, therefore doesn't need to use a weapon-like object such as hell to take care of evil-doers.  
Arnold M
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28 posted 05-06-2005 02:44 AM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Essorant, are we talking of the same thing when we use the word "geenna"?  To my understanding, it was the worst kind of judgement that the Sanhedrin (the Jewish council) could lay on someone.  Look at the number of times that Jesus, during His earthly ministry, warned the multitudes that what they say or do could result in that judgement and keep them from the Kingdom.
Essorant
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29 posted 05-06-2005 06:08 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Arnold

I mean the death-valley called geenna.
  
Essorant
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30 posted 05-06-2005 07:44 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Arnold,

We may go back to the thread on hell to discuss this further if you like.    
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000570.html
Arnold M
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31 posted 05-09-2005 07:13 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Sorry Ess, about getting this thread sidetracked.  But you brought out so well the original, true meaning of "hell".

How about the history of the word "paradise"?

Thanks,  Bick
Essorant
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32 posted 05-11-2005 11:17 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Hi Arnold


Here is a good excerpt from Dictionary.com about Paradise:

Paradise

"Word History: The history of paradise is an extreme example of amelioration, the process by which a word comes to refer to something better than what it used to refer to. The old Iranian language Avestan had a noun pairidaeza-, "a wall enclosing a garden or orchard," which is composed of pairi-, "around," and daeza- "wall." The adverb and preposition pairi is related to the equivalent Greek form peri, as in perimeter. Daza- comes from the Indo-European root *dheigh-, "to mold, form, shape." Zoroastrian religion encouraged maintaining arbors, orchards, and gardens, and even the kings of austere Sparta were edified by seeing the Great King of Persia planting and maintaining his own trees in his own garden. Xenophon, a Greek mercenary soldier who spent some time in the Persian army and later wrote histories, recorded the pairidaza- surrounding the orchard as paradeisos, using it not to refer to the wall itself but to the huge parks that Persian nobles loved to build and hunt in. This Greek word was used in the Septuagint translation of Genesis to refer to the Garden of Eden, whence Old English eventually borrowed it around 1200."

Although "around 1200" is Middle English not Old English.

Old English, in fact, had its own word for Paradise: Neorxnawang.  The Neorxna- is of uncertain origin, but -wang surely means "field"  

But paradis is also used, as in Genesis, when Eve quoth:

Of ara treowa wstme e sind on paradisum we eta; and of s treowes wstme, e is onmiddan neorxenawange, God bebead us t we ne ten, ne we  t treow ne hrepoden, y ls we swulten.

"Of the trees' fruit that are in Paradise we eat; and of the tree's fruit, that is amid [in the middle of] Paradise, God bade us that we not eat, nor we that tree touch, lest we die."
Sunshine
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33 posted 05-11-2005 12:04 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Ess, I just wanted to say "thanks"...one could look around and research some of this fabulous information but me? I like to see inquiring young minds like yours bring such here, to share with others...

Thank you.
Arnold M
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34 posted 05-12-2005 08:57 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Thanks, Ess, for all your work concerning the word "paradise".

It justifies that my concordance defines it as a "park, garden ground" Youngs Con.

And, even though the word is used only three times in the Greek scriptures, the idea of a park, or park-like area, is implied in a number of places in the Hebrew scriptures; and, as you pointed out,in the LXX that is the word used for the garden of Eden.

The other places I refer to are those describing the beauty of the restored land of Israel, and Jerusalem itself, in the Milennial reign of Christ:

Isaiah 51:3 "The Lord shall surely comfort Zion and will look with  compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord."  NIV

Ezek.36:34,35 "The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it.  They will say, 'This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden.' NIV

Thanks and God bless you,  Arnold
Essorant
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35 posted 05-12-2005 11:38 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Thank you both for your insight and kind words on this.  
Arnold M
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36 posted 05-30-2005 12:57 AM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Thanks Ess, for your input on "paradise."
It just confirms what my references say.  So many people today think it is another word for heaven.  When Christ says to the believing thief on the cross-- "thou shalt be with me in (the) paradise," note: (the)is in the Greek--He has to be referring to the park like paradise that Jerusalem and Israel will become in the His kingdom on earth, since the thief asked to be remembered when Christ comes in His kingdom. Luke 23:42,43.
Ref: Isa.51:1-5; and Ezek. 36:33-35.  
Kristabell
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37 posted 06-21-2005 09:40 PM       View Profile for Kristabell   Email Kristabell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kristabell

Good point!
JesusChristPose
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38 posted 07-04-2005 09:20 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

Arnold, I couldn't of stated it better myself.
 
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