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Passions in Poetry

Real Race Politics

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Grinch
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200 posted 07-20-2010 06:19 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
You can see it in the anger and ferocity of various tea parties’ responses


You sure can.

The NAACP said that there were racists within the Tea Party movement and the Tea Party spokesman provided the following response that proved they were right.

quote:
Dear Mr. Lincoln

We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!

In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’.

The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.

And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.

Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?

Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.

Sincerely

Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person

Ron
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201 posted 07-20-2010 06:51 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

John, Dennis Prager, the writer for the National Review you quoted, couldn't be more wrong. If he'd like to register at pipTalk, I'll be happy to explain to him how the math works and why his thinking is more than a little sloppy.

Racism, as I've already said, isn't an opinion. It's a mathematical fact.


Denise
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202 posted 07-20-2010 10:41 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Grinch, Williams is not the Tea Party spokesman. He was one of the organizers for one out of over 2000 groups nationwide.
Balladeer
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203 posted 07-20-2010 11:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Good clarification, Denise.
Grinch
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204 posted 07-21-2010 01:18 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

He wasn’t a spokesman!



Has anyone told Fox News?


Huan Yi
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205 posted 07-21-2010 03:39 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38344940/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001


While the NAACP gets a pass?

.
Balladeer
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206 posted 07-21-2010 05:24 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...and how about them Brown Berets that everyone ignored in #194?
Balladeer
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207 posted 07-21-2010 06:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Poor Shirley! Another piece of roadkill on the Liberal Superhighway. She was told to resign immediately because she was going to be on Glenn Beck. She was told to pull of the side of the road and resign immediately, which she did. That Glenn beck must really strike fear into this administration, wouldn't you say? Interestingly enough, she wasn't even mentioned on Glenn Beck, not for hours later on Bill O'Reilly. By midnight, the NAACP applauded her termination.

Today, her bosses are falling all over themselves trying to be nice to her, after having reviewed all the facts. Her boss said it was all his decision. For those who believe that, there's plenty of swampland left down here. Anyone see a recurring theme here.....?

"The Cambridge police acted stupidly.." (before reviewing the case)

"You can be harrassed having ice cream with your father..." (without reading the bill)

"Resign, Shirley. You're going to be on Glenn Beck!" (without checking the facts)

Proud of your leaders yet, libs? No wonder we can't get ahead in Afghanistan. Glenn Beck scares them!!
Denise
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208 posted 07-22-2010 10:13 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55aujTwuJY8&feature=player_embedded
Denise
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209 posted 07-24-2010 09:54 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
The accusation about Tea Party racism is ridiculous.  But even if you don’t think it’s ridiculous, is this the discussion we need to be having when national unemployment hovers at ten percent, and when black unemployment is closer to 15%, double that of whites?

Now, of course, we should be talking about racism if this is what is driving black unemployment.  But is it?

I don’t think so.  Nor do most blacks.

In January of this year, well into our recession, and well into the emergence of the Tea Party movement, the Pew Research Center surveyed black attitudes.

In answer to the question, “When blacks don’t make progress, who or what is to blame?”, 52% of blacks responded that “blacks” themselves are “mostly responsible”, and 34% said “racism.”  This is the reverse of how blacks responded to this question just 15 years ago, when 56% said that racism was the impediment to black progress.

In the same survey, blacks responded almost identically as whites to the question of whether success in life is “determined by forces beyond one’s control” or whether “everyone has the power to succeed.”

Seventy seven percent of blacks and 82% of whites said that “everyone has the power to succeed” and 16% of blacks and 12% whites said success is “determined by forces beyond one’s control.”

And when blacks were asked in this same survey about the main problems facing black families, the response was overwhelmingly exactly the same as the general result of the Gallup poll of last week.  Jobs.

So, Americans of all colors today generally feel responsible for their own lives and the main concern of most is the sick state of our economy.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1459/year-after-obama-election-black-public-opinion



http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=182877
serenity blaze
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210 posted 07-24-2010 10:00 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ron, please forgive me for not reading the all of this thread.

You did indeed intrigue me though, with the statement that racism is a mathematical fact.

Since no one else seems willing, I'll bite.

There is a formula for hatred? <--confused
Balladeer
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211 posted 07-24-2010 03:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I can't speak for Ron or presume to know exactly what he meant but I took it to mean that there will always be percentages, about racism or anything else. A certain percentage of people will be racist and a certain percentage won't. The same goes for religious, non-religious, left-handed, right-handed, blonde, brunette, etc etc. it's all in the numbers.
Denise
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212 posted 07-24-2010 04:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

http://rjmoeller.com/2010/07/the-problems-and-pitfalls-of-cradle-to-grave/
Ron
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213 posted 07-24-2010 08:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Not quite, Mike, although my point certainly does entail percentages. And statistics.

If you take 1,000 people and determine what percentage of them are left-handed, you're going to come up with a number. Let's call that Group A. If you then take 1,000 very different people, Group B, and again determine how many of them are left-handed, you're going to come up with another number. Those numbers might not be exactly the same, but they should be darn close. That's because in any random sample of the population, the probability of an individual being left-handed isn't going to change. Increase your sample rate from 1,000 people to 10 million and the difference between Group A and Group B will quickly approach zero. That's the power and the near infallibility of statistics.

Group A and Group B are converging because they are both part of a larger group, the group comprising every human being in this country. Let's call it Group America. In any random group that is a subset of Group America, assuming sufficient size, the number of left-handed people is going to remain essentially unchanged.

The math is going to work the same for any human trait. You can measure left-handed people, blonde people, color-blind people, gender, homosexuality -- or race.

Let's say you wanted to measure a particular body type. After studying Group America, you determined that 32 percent of that population was a natural endomorph. If you examined a subset of Group America, let's say Group Teachers, you should find that 32 percent of that subset population was also natural endomorphs. Right?

What if the subset you examined was Group Fashion Models? What if you discovered a very different number of endomorphs, say something in the neighborhood of 2 percent?

Any large deviation from the parent group would tell you that something was skewing the results. In this instance, it would probably be safe to hypothesize that someone somewhere apparently believed that endomorphs didn't make very good fashion models?

Let's now examine Group America and determine how many members of the group are black? Let's call that percentage X.

If we look at any subset of sufficient size, be it doctors, CEOs of top companies, millionaires or homeless, we should discover a number very similar to X. Any time we see a large discrepancy we know something is skewing the results.

Do you believe that endomorphs make lousy fashion models? Some people, I'm sure, would disagree with you.

Do you believe that black people make bad CEOs? Some would disagree and many, I think, would call you a racist.

Huan Yi has suggested that nurture, or in other words Culture, plays a role. John is probably right, but that's really just a different way of saying the same thing I've been saying. Culture is just a reflection of the past and present. It's a weight that can either exhaust us or help motivate us.

There are only three reasons why X, the number of blacks in Group America, should be skewed when examining Group CEOs.

1. Black people really do make poor CEOs of top companies. If you believe this you can stop reading right now. Nothing else I say is ever going to matter.

2. Black people are currently discriminated against when pursuing high level positions. This is the point I think some of you are arguing against. Personally, I think you're wrong. But I also think you're right insofar as current discrimination is less a problem today than at any other time in history.

3. Black people have faced discrimination in the past and the past is still affecting their present. You can't put a fifty pound weight on a man's back and expect him to win many races. Just as importantly, you can't remove the fifty pounds ten minutes before the race and pretend the race is suddenly a fair one. Not if the man is exhausted from carrying the weight around all day.

Affirmative Action, in all its various guises, is designed to help counter Point Three.

To some of you, it may not seem fair to everyone else when we give some runners a half-lap head start in a foot race. What you're not seeing, however, is the fifty pound weight that runner was carrying just ten metaphorical minutes ago. The head start is an attempt, albeit feeble, to make the competition fair again.

How do we know he needs a head start? How do we know when he stops being so tired and needs less of a head start? How do we know when the past is no longer affecting the present and he can stand on the starting line like everyone else?

All we need to do is look at the statistics.

When X is the same percent in Group Good College as it is in Group America, we won't need to give anyone a head start. When X is the same in Group CEOs as it is in Group America, we'll know that job discrimination past and present is no longer an issue in this country. When X is the same in Group Millionaire as it is in Group America, we can finally ignore the weight we forced others to bear for so very long. The race will finally be fair again.

Affirmative Action isn't about atoning for the past or otherwise making up for something someone else did a long time ago. It's not about guilt. Affirmative Action, done correctly, is about making the race fair again.
Huan Yi
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Waukegan


214 posted 07-26-2010 02:52 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Affirmative Action, done correctly, is about making the race fair again.”

And when not done correctly?


“Forty years ago, as the United States experienced the civil rights movement, the supposed monolith of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant dominance served as the whipping post for almost every debate about power and status in America. After a full generation of such debate, WASP elites have fallen by the wayside and a plethora of government-enforced diversity policies have marginalized many white workers. The time has come to cease the false arguments and allow every American the benefit of a fair chance at the future. “

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703724104575379630952309408.html


.
Ron
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215 posted 07-26-2010 03:55 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
After a full generation of such debate, WASP elites have fallen by the wayside and a plethora of government-enforced diversity policies have marginalized many white workers.

Not according to the math, John. The numbers prove, beyond any doubt, that those white workers still have an unjustified advantage, especially in the more desired venues.
Huan Yi
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Waukegan


216 posted 07-26-2010 04:09 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

And you assume it's because of racism
and nothing else.  

"In 1974, a National Opinion Research Center (NORC) study of white ethnic groups showed that white Baptists nationwide averaged only 10.7 years of education, a level almost identical to blacks' average of 10.6 years, and well below that of most other white groups. A recent NORC Social Survey of white adults born after World War II showed that in the years 1980-2000, only 18.4% of white Baptists and 21.8% of Irish Protestants—the principal ethnic group that settled the South—had obtained college degrees, compared to a national average of 30.1%, a Jewish average of 73.3%, and an average among those of Chinese and Indian descent of 61.9%.

Policy makers ignored such disparities within America's white cultures when, in advancing minority diversity programs, they treated whites as a fungible monolith. Also lost on these policy makers were the differences in economic and educational attainment among nonwhite cultures. Thus nonwhite groups received special consideration in a wide variety of areas including business startups, academic admissions, job promotions and lucrative government contracts. "
.
Ron
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217 posted 07-26-2010 07:52 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

The poor tend to stay poor, John. That's not a revelation. It's also not greatly relevant.

The question, rather is what percentage of ALL Americans are poor and likely to stay poor. Statistically, it should be exactly the same as the percentage of black Americans.

It's not.

It is perfectly valid to compare the whole (Group America) to a subset of the whole. You cannot, however, take two subsets determined by entirely different criteria and compare them to each other. Comparing all blacks to only poor whites is not mathematically sound. It's a bit like comparing blacks to white prison convicts and then concluding that blacks don't break the law as much as whites.

That's not the way the math works.

More importantly, however, while it's true the poor tend to stay poor, the bigger issue is WHY someone is poor in the first place. If it's geography then it will apply to all races equally.

It doesn't.
Bob K
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218 posted 07-30-2010 10:53 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




quote:


"In 1974, a National Opinion Research Center (NORC) study of white ethnic groups showed that white Baptists nationwide averaged only 10.7 years of education, a level almost identical to blacks' average of 10.6 years, and well below that of most other white groups. A recent NORC Social Survey of white adults born after World War II showed that in the years 1980-2000, only 18.4% of white Baptists and 21.8% of Irish Protestants—the principal ethnic group that settled the South—had obtained college degrees, compared to a national average of 30.1%, a Jewish average of 73.3%, and an average among those of Chinese and Indian descent of 61.9%.

Policy makers ignored such disparities within America's white cultures when, in advancing minority diversity programs, they treated whites as a fungible monolith. Also lost on these policy makers were the differences in economic and educational attainment among nonwhite cultures. Thus nonwhite groups received special consideration in a wide variety of areas including business startups, academic admissions, job promotions and lucrative government contracts. "
.



     Thanks for the reference, above, John; but where might I find it in full?  I don't see any citation.
JenniferMaxwell
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219 posted 08-05-2010 04:40 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/user/SamSeder#p/u/1/NLLo4gKeBBk
 
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