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Passions in Poetry

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Greeneyes
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Member Patricius
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In Your Poetic Mind


0 posted 12-07-2003 11:45 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes


Does anyone else see the "Wizard of Oz" as a Spiritual Movie??? I was watching this tonight with my girls, and realized how Spiritual it was..(I think a better word is religious?)...Was curious if any one else felt the same??  

~~**~~



I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.

[This message has been edited by Greeneyes (12-07-2003 11:49 PM).]

Alicat
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1 posted 12-07-2003 11:53 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Forces of Good triumphing over Evil? Could be seen as Spiritual, especially given some of the characters. Pity the movie, as so many do, only paid basic lipservice to the book by Frank L. Baum. Though I could certainly see that material contained therein would have been considered way too dark and graphically violent given the current landscape when they were filming.
Greeneyes
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2 posted 12-08-2003 12:02 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

Well certainly good winning over evil,
But I think too there is a message within:
Of a spiritual journey that would go along with -- (of course not limited too)
Brains
Courage &
Heart

Something, we are all born with, and possess within, to win over evil…
However, some may take a different path to find it…..Just thoughts to ponder
I really saw the similarity there…


~~**~~


I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.




[This message has been edited by Greeneyes (12-08-2003 12:03 AM).]

Opeth
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3 posted 12-08-2003 12:06 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I love the Wizard of Oz and find it to be a great character study.

The Tin Man believes he doesn't have a heart, but is always displaying his caring.

The Scarecrow thinks himself to be without a brain, but always comes up with the best ideas.

The Cowardly Lion, on the other hand, seemed to be as he thought himself to be, but to me, he was a character that acted in a "gay" sort of way - for that period in Hollywood. He was my favorite character in the movie: "What do they got that I aint got" "Courage!" "You can say that again!"

A classic, indeed.

"If this grand panorama before me is what you call God...then God is not dead."

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4 posted 12-08-2003 12:14 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



(smiles) Well, I believe it is one of the most spiritual movies I ever remember as a little boy, along with "It's A Wonderful Life"



Why, I am not exactly sure. But the rainbow to me is always a symbol of promise from the Good Lord, and the Holy Law and the Ten Commandments all seem to be personified high above the rainbow, with the terrestial world allied. Tangibly, she wants to go home, but intangibly, she's kind of seeking Truth. And each obstacle to me are like the obstacles Elijah or other reverent figures experienced; the Wicked Witch of the West, the poppies, time itself. In addition, the friends she makes along the way all tangibly desire something but intangibly find so much more. Oz himself is no God but a learned man and how he assures the scarecrow he's smarter than he thinks, the Tin Man love comes from within, and the Lion that courage is achieved through experience.

To me, Dorothy follows a path just like Jesus. She had questions about her family. Like Jesus, she started out as an ordinary person. She took an unusual path at a time before adulthood, made arduous journies, found companions, were not afraid to make their convictions and in the end had to leave in one form or another and sadden followers yet fill them with inspiration. They both are trying to find a "home", and on the way "home" they reach a state of atonement and holiness.

In the beginning when she defies Miss Gulch and her aunt letting Toto be taken away to be destroyed, Dorothy performs civil disobediance, showing it is simply wrong to pick on smaller things and Holy Law dominated over Civil Law. There's something about Toto too that is spiritual to me. To me, Toto is like the symbol of intuition. Toto escapes from the basket twice because of intuition, making good judgement. Barking at the scarecrow too when Dorothy doubts there is life in scarecrows also shows it.

The Wizard Of Oz is a classic not only because it is just beautiful and fun for all families but also because it is one of those films where there's more than meets the eye and the mind. There's allusions and archetypes everywhere, many I believe I haven't even picked up on yet. Even a bit of satire perhaps to civil law and obediance. I truly believe Emerald City is significant of something very important, just as the rainbow and the yellow brick road is, which I think the yellow brick road is synonymous to the path of righteousness.



Great thinking, Lauren, this is promising to be a beautiful discussion, yay!



Love,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Local Rebel
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5 posted 12-08-2003 12:19 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Delightful classic.  If by spiritual you meant that you found it to contain intrinsic truth without being literally true -- then yes -- I think it could be said to be spiritual.  

Probably there was a nice rush of dopamine to go along with the experience as well -- with the nostalgia of it mixed with the presense of children -- a rather potent mixture...sometimes a physical manifestation of what we call spiritual -- I know I enjoy the times like that with my own children.

Though seemingly more dated than the Wizard I also found its' analog Zardoz -- a Sean Connery classic to be as spirit endowed -- though decidedly more cynical.

Both pieces are excellent microcosms of the cultures that created them and will no doubt be studied for many, many decades (if not centuries) to come.
Balladeer
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6 posted 12-08-2003 01:01 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, let me be the Devil's Advocate here. Actually I love the movie very much and it will always be a classic. I think it portrays many truths but I believe those truths deal with the human spirit as opposed to the religiously spiritual. The Wizard turned out to be, not the all-powerful, thunder and lightning being everyone considered him to be...but a small man using props to give that impression.....not exactly the image of God we imagine. Also the power to give them their heart, brain and courage came from the power within THEM that they had all the time. The movie teaches that everyone has the power within themselves to be what they want to be....that self is important. This can also go against certain religious beliefs.

The movie is accurate about ine thing, though....if you're in heaven, you're not in Kansas!!

Sunshine, put that gun down!!
Opeth
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7 posted 12-08-2003 01:10 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Balladeer! No way! The self? The Tin Man had a heart all along, didn't he? He didn't need to find a god/wizard to give him one. And the Scarecrow, the same.

but what about that Lion?

I definitely enjoyed reading your reply.

Greeneyes
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8 posted 12-08-2003 09:25 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

Deer~

“The wizard himself in some ways portrays aspects of God's character. He is powerful and unapproachable, yet at the same time, personal and very approachable.

When the wizard is shown to be who he really is, he turns out to be a kind man, charitable, approachable, gentle, and more than willing to try to grant the requests of Dorothy and her friends”……


I agree with you on the aspect of the human spirit...
~~~


Noah

I see Emerald City as the "perfect" city, where any wish is granted and everyone is happy and "beautiful" somewhat like preceptions of heaven?

~~~





~~**~~


I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.



[This message has been edited by Greeneyes (12-08-2003 09:33 AM).]

Greeneyes
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9 posted 12-08-2003 09:36 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

Local Rebel~


I agree with you....watching my girls eyes light up was indeed a beautiful thing....and being able to share time with them....of course thats priceless...

~~

I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.

Greeneyes
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10 posted 12-08-2003 09:44 AM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

quote:
The Tin Man had a heart all along, didn't he? He didn't need to find a god/wizard to give him one. And the Scarecrow, the same.

but what about that Lion?

Don't you think he had courage all along? He just needed someone to remind him—sometimes I think we all need to be reminded we have it.  In the end and along the way he did everything he could to help Dorothy get to the Emerald City, despite the obstacles in the way.


~~**~~


I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.

Balladeer
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11 posted 12-08-2003 07:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"When the wizard is shown to be who he really is, he turns out to be a kind man, charitable, approachable, gentle, and more than willing to try to grant the requests of Dorothy and her friends"

Lauren, I suggest you re-read Exodus. When God is shown to be who he truly is I would suggest you take cover!!!
Greeneyes
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12 posted 12-08-2003 08:27 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes   Email Greeneyes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes

The Wizard turned out to be, not the all-powerful, thunder and lightning being everyone considered him to be...but a small man using props to give that impression.....not exactly the image of God we imagine""
Deer~

Based on the above  yes, right, the reasoning for my reply....  

~~~~~~

of course, I understand the concepts of the (there is no good way to say that) all mighty and powerful god....and I can only hope I dont live long enough to see his full power....   


I would rather have one breath of his hair,
one kiss of his mouth,
one touch of his hand
than an eternity without it.



[This message has been edited by Greeneyes (12-08-2003 09:42 PM).]

Local Rebel
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13 posted 12-14-2003 01:25 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

The movie 'Zardoz' that I mentioned would certainly follow the Wizard/God analogy (with no offence to our own local wizard) with both turning out to be a humbug...

But in Oz I don't think the God card was really meant to be played.

It came out of a culture that was infinitely more simple than 'Zardoz' or our own time... I agree with Baladeer that it is about the human spirit -- and on much simpler terms...

I see it as a coming of age theme -- the view from a child's perspective of a world that seems out of reach and beyond control -- being helpless against the forces of the universe -- and coming to terms with grownups who seem to be all-knowing and all-powerful who have the weaknesses and foibles just like children...

'What a world, what a world'  
Tim
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14 posted 12-15-2003 08:18 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

to Balladeer, I doubt Sunshine would dispute Kansas is not heaven, but I think she and I would agree that heaven is probably patterned after Kansas.  And we ain't got all them big bugs. Which to think, is maybe why an exterminator might mistakenly think Florida is heaven.
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15 posted 12-15-2003 10:07 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Actually, Baum wrote this fairy tale as a political review.  
quote:
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz was no longer an innocent fairy tale. According to Littlefield, Baum, a reform-minded Democrat who supported William Jennings Bryan's pro-silver candidacy, wrote the book as a parable of the Populists, an allegory of their failed efforts to reform the nation in 1896. "Baum never allowed the consistency of the allegory to take precedence over the theme of youthful entertainment," Littlefield hedged at one point; "the allegory always remains in a minor key." Still, he concluded that "the relationships and analogies outlined above . . . are far too consistent to be coincidental."(2)

It was an interesting notion, one scholars could not leave alone, and they soon began to find additional correspondences between Populism and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Richard Jensen, in a 1971 study of Midwestern politics and culture, devoted two pages to Baum's story. He implicitly qualified Littlefield by pointing out that not all pro-Bryan silverites were Populists. But Jensen then proceeded to add two new points to the standard Littlefield interpretation, finding analogies for Toto and Oz itself: Dorothy's faithful dog represented the teetotaling Prohibitionists, an important part of the silverite coalition, and anyone familiar with the silverites' slogan "16 to 1"--that is, the ratio of sixteen ounces of silver to one ounce of gold--would have instantly recognized "Oz" as the abbreviation for "ounce."(3)

http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/Populism.htm

As for Kansas and Heaven?  Both are what one makes of either...Tim and I just happen to think they go hand in glove.  

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (12-15-2003 01:28 PM).]

Tim
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16 posted 12-15-2003 11:57 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Sunshine does know her history.  In the book, the slippers were silver and the yellow brick road was of course symbolic of  gold.  The cyclone coming out of Kansas was the populist movement and the farmer, industrialist and politician (William Jennings Bryan)were the scarecrow, tin man and cowardly lion.
silver vs. gold standard, that is the spiruality behind the Wizard of Oz.

[This message has been edited by Tim (12-15-2003 11:58 PM).]

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17 posted 12-16-2003 12:11 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Tim, I can assure you here is one bugman who DOES believe Florida is heaven..there's ants on them pearly gates!!
Local Rebel
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18 posted 12-16-2003 09:57 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

that is the spiruality behind the Wizard of Oz



hmmmmmm..... I don't think so Tim

heh...

I think it is important to examine the cultures that produce lit/art because it does tell us mostly what influenced the artist.  What makes it enduring is something else.

Are we really concerned about the political satire of Mother Goose when we read it to our children?

Gulliver's Travels?

Was there any hint of the original political undercurrent in Oz by the time the movie was made -- or was the movie more reflective of the America of its' day?

What's more -- are the 'truths' that will make it endure even beyond Lauren's grandchildren even related to the days of populism and WJB?
Tim
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19 posted 12-17-2003 10:08 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

which is why I said behind rather than of...
don't dispute what ya said.

[This message has been edited by Tim (12-18-2003 08:00 AM).]

Local Rebel
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20 posted 12-26-2003 08:20 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well... Today Lauren, today...I realized what it is... listening to the radio

Something I hadn't remembered until now.. Brudda Iz... that would be the late Israel Kamakawiwo`ole was singing his rendition of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'

It is the human anthem

If you've never heard it you can find a clip here:
http://hawaiianislandmusic.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?/Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HYHMDS&Product_Code=MOUBB5901

Of course -- there's Judy as well...

Now -- that's spiritual...

I wept.
 
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