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Passions in Poetry

Dark Poetry

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Temptress
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Member Rara Avis
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0 posted 06-26-2003 11:44 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

Please share your ideas of what Dark poetry really is or should be.

Ready
Set
DISCUSS!

Have fun.  

You could hurt me with your bare hands. You could hurt me using the sharp edge of what you say. JEWEL

Larry C
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1 posted 06-26-2003 12:37 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Stuff I typically can't read.
Wind
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since 10-12-2002
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2 posted 06-26-2003 12:45 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

it explores the shadows, digs deep and leaves you waiting for a reply you'll never get.

I said I'm going to buy a gun and start a war,
If you can tell me something worth fighting for
-coldplay

Poet deVine
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3 posted 06-26-2003 12:55 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Stuff you need a flashlight to read? LOL
IcyFlamez89
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4 posted 06-26-2003 01:14 PM       View Profile for IcyFlamez89   Email IcyFlamez89   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit IcyFlamez89's Home Page   View IP for IcyFlamez89

Stuff that expresses our strength by showing our vulnerability. Depression, fear, dark thoughts and emotions, death, things that would have us shivering in a corner, and now we somehow find the courage to shine the light on it, sharing with others what it has taught us.
Wind
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5 posted 06-26-2003 01:22 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

icyflame, that didn't sound like you at all. It was like a completely different person talking.

I said I'm going to buy a gun and start a war,
If you can tell me something worth fighting for
-coldplay

Local Parasite
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6 posted 06-26-2003 01:40 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

if I could define it I could probably write it.  

Dark poetry is capable of being the most powerful.  It gets into your brain and sends a full shudder through your body.  It offers you a glimpse of something so powerful and overwhelming that you feel small and insignificant.  

It's really not what anyone thinks it is.  Read something by T.S. Eliot, or bsquirrel at piptalk... there's more than just those two but not that I can think of at the moment.  Read Eliot's "The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock" and you'll see what I mean.

My pet peeve is when people tend to simplify a concept and therefore disgrace its truth.  The concept of dark poetry is almost as often a victim of this as the concept of love is.
IcyFlamez89
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since 02-14-2003
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7 posted 06-26-2003 02:09 PM       View Profile for IcyFlamez89   Email IcyFlamez89   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit IcyFlamez89's Home Page   View IP for IcyFlamez89

Eh? what does that mean? I thought of the question hard before replying, and it's what i felt. I realized that all of the poems i wrote in Dark... it was like showing a side of me, the most vulnerable part. A secret me that has waited so patiently to come out. Hidden among the flowered words and weird metaphors were all the things I tried to forget or hide. My depression which I kept hidden for so long, I was finally able to release and conquer. Writing in Dark made me vulnerable. Here was all of my thoughts and emotions, lying in plain site for all to mock and dismiss. Yet when the replies came, of others sharing their thoughts, revealing their vulnerabilities, it gave me a hidden strength and comfort.

blehh, I sound redundant. (-.-)

[This message has been edited by IcyFlamez89 (06-26-2003 02:10 PM).]

Jason Lyle
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8 posted 06-26-2003 03:57 PM       View Profile for Jason Lyle   Email Jason Lyle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jason Lyle

I dont pretend to write it well, but I guess most of my writes could be called dark.I think thats why they get lost in the shuffle.I can't really define what dark poetry is, have just been told that mine is.
But I have stuck to Raphaels advice and posted in open, instead of dark.
I think, that as LP stated, sometimes I tend to simplify a statement.
I write whatever comes to me, regardless of its content.
I probably have offended a few.
But for me, If I am a dark poet, its because I just wrote what was going on at the time.Dark as the truth, lol.

Jason
serenity blaze
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9 posted 06-26-2003 05:44 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It's just me writing the stuff I can't talk about.
Midnitesun
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10 posted 06-26-2003 06:20 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Just from reading these replies, I think it's obvious there is no one concept about what it is or isn't. In reading some of the submissions in Dark, I find much of it about death, violence, suicidal thoughts, murderous thoughts, and generally some 'nasty' things that have happened to us or those we care about...things we don't feel comfortable remembering or talking about, yet need to release from our psyches. Writing is a near-perfect venue for emotional catharsis.
Dark. Hmm, I have many more thoughts about this, but have to go fix dinner. (another dark subject sometimes )

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (06-26-2003 06:22 PM).]

Wind
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11 posted 06-26-2003 07:49 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

no icy, it was just like a totaly different side of you. I had no intent to offend if I did.

I said I'm going to buy a gun and start a war,
If you can tell me something worth fighting for
-coldplay

IcyFlamez89
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since 02-14-2003
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12 posted 06-26-2003 09:02 PM       View Profile for IcyFlamez89   Email IcyFlamez89   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit IcyFlamez89's Home Page   View IP for IcyFlamez89

None taken. I was just surprised. Your comment raised many questions about myself. If i have kept this part of me hidden so long, how many parts of me have yet to be discovered? Dark poetry let out the self that kept all of my most painful secrets. Art has shown the self that has the most grace and wisdom. You helped me delve more into self discovery. Thanks
littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 03-02-2003
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13 posted 06-27-2003 07:14 PM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing

I have to agree with Brian on this one.

When I think I have written dark,  
I have only written pain.  
This link will take you
to the most beautiful writing I
have seen in ages.  
There are really no words
to describe this,
but most times dark is beautiful.

http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum46/HTML/001870.html

All of the classic poets are quite dark, they just do not come right out and say so.  They leave you to surmise what they are feeling.  THAT is the difference from today and then.  Dark is considered to many as blatant nasty writing when in reality, dark should be dark, but welcoming.  

Like the escape of a last breath from lips which once sang . . .

[This message has been edited by littlewing (06-27-2003 07:16 PM).]

serenity blaze
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14 posted 06-27-2003 09:24 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I hate talking about poetry.

It makes me feel distant from it, and then it is no longer a feeling from inside that I want to express, but something outside of myself that I want to define. And I've got a real problem with definitions--I find 'em so...limiting. So, I'll just politely bow out of this'n, and go write some "stuff". Ya'll can call it anything you like, or even nothing at all.

Don't be afraid to color outside of the lines, good poets.
TasteOfOctober
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15 posted 06-27-2003 10:49 PM       View Profile for TasteOfOctober   Email TasteOfOctober   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TasteOfOctober

Well, even though I'm a newbie, I'd really like to address the subject.
I see poetry as one force. Poetry simply is poetry, much like life is simply life even though neither is truthfully simple eh? lol. you can't put poetry itself into any one label, or any label at all maybe. when we call poetry dark we are just using the typical expression for something that generally isnt so cheery thus relating it to how the individual feels about the piece and the piece will always come down to the individual so really< there is no such thing in my opinion as any "type" of poetry be light dark love or what have you>  poetry is poetry  

sorry for such a lengthy first post but i thought it better to introduce myself in discussion before leaping into my own symbolisms in poetry

hello everyone
Local Parasite
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16 posted 06-27-2003 11:05 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

"This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."

~~T.S. Eliot, "The Hollow Men"
Ron
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17 posted 06-27-2003 11:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Don't be afraid to color outside of the lines, good poets.

One can't color outside the lines, Karen, without first deciding where they are.

quote:
there is no such thing in my opinion as any "type" of poetry be light dark love or what have you  poetry is poetry

Then, in a very real sense, TasteOfOctober, there is no poetry, either. Because writing is writing.


TasteOfOctober
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18 posted 06-27-2003 11:51 PM       View Profile for TasteOfOctober   Email TasteOfOctober   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TasteOfOctober

there ron, you will find me in disagreement. poetry is not by any means limited to writing. that's much like saying that death only comes in one form. simply isn't true.
Ron
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19 posted 06-28-2003 01:06 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I think you missed the point. Actually, there can't even be such a thing as writing. Because art is art.

Saying that poetry only comes in one form is no less questionable than saying writing comes in only one form. "Poetry is poetry" is a familiar escape from a sometimes tiresome prison, but we learn nothing useful by pretending to escape (and it is only a pretense, because we all still discriminate). Trying to define the gradations of art, writing, poetry, and yes, even death, is both futile and absolutely necessary. It's a large part of how we learn.
TasteOfOctober
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since 06-24-2003
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20 posted 06-28-2003 01:38 AM       View Profile for TasteOfOctober   Email TasteOfOctober   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TasteOfOctober

well then this is where I elaborate. I think of poetry on a much bigger scale. I mean, as the driving force of life and existence and yes, even change. A force that simply is. Much like the majority view on God. But when it comes down to it the collective and the individual reach the same end and God at the end of the day is God. In other words, seperating poetry into different aspects and trying to fit a force that moves to the individual into a general category with a general single meaning doesn't work because, again, it is a single force that moves to the individual. when you ask what dark poetry is you ask what poetry is. when you ask what light(ive never heard anyone reffer to poetry as light, but im assuming that would be the word to use that would be poetry that isnt "dark"?)poetry is, you ask the same question over expecting a different answer, but, again, poetry is a single force movign to the individual and is only collective through the individual. ive never been good at explaining things in plain words like this, so i'm really just hopin youre catchin what im throwin.

oh, and I honestly dont see any escape in it, poin tthat out. all knowledge is useful even if it's just for the chance to gain experience, or familiarize ourselves with the possibilities.



The only difference between the creative and the conformists is that the creative will not be conquered and the conformists already are.

[This message has been edited by TasteOfOctober (06-28-2003 01:42 AM).]

serenity blaze
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21 posted 06-28-2003 03:03 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Oh, Ron? Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying discard all rules...I'm not saying there is nothing we can learn.

I use the analogy of studying classics and form as an athlete training. I've said it many times, but I WILL say it again, (cause I AM persistant) but the football player may not understand why he's high stepping through tires in training, but later? on the field, it comes naturally during the actual game. It's the same thing with music, and drawing, and I believe ALL art. I do not advise throwing away the study and practice--but? I fear that some might feel constrained later, and inhibit expression in order to suit the rules. In other words? Don't be afraid to toss a lateral when it's called for. But we do remember the rules of the game, but isn't new form of Art created when we dare to reach and be innovative?

The lines come in very handy when learning form. But I try not to let the definitions define me.
garysgirl
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22 posted 06-28-2003 03:28 AM       View Profile for garysgirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit garysgirl's Home Page   View IP for garysgirl

There is no light without shadow, no day without darkness. This section is for exploring the other sides of joy and love and life, and perhaps for helping us learn to better understand them

This is what is on the "Main Forums" page under "Dark Poetry". If I understand correctly, this is the type poetry that  the Dark Forum here at Passions is meant to have.........not poetry that  glorifies  violence, pain, suicide and all the dark sides of life, but poetry that  explores  this side of life.

serenity blaze
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23 posted 06-28-2003 03:43 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Let me underscore that I realize the guidelines of this forum, and I understand the reasons. I also applaud Ron for generously devoting a LOT of space in his home for free expression.

No arguments there. There ARE other forms of expression some find more satisfying. This may not be the place for them. I'm simply saying don't discard the work just because it's not suitable HERE. You just can't POST it here. But...and this leads me to a question I've been asking many, and I am particularly interested in Ron's thoughts on this:

Just how responsible are we for the effect our words have on others? I've asked this many times, and yes, the standard answer is "we are responsible for everything we do."

But I can't help but think of Salinger and "Catcher In The Rye." OR? THE BIBLE. Do we really hold an author responsible for a reader's interpretation?

Forgive me if this is off-topic, but if it is, I don't think it strays very far. Also, if this has been discussed before, just wind me up and point me in the right direction.
I'll get there eventually.
littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 03-02-2003
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24 posted 06-28-2003 06:53 AM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing

No way are we responsible for an interpretation by someone else . . .
we write what we feel - they see what they see - ha - the bible is a good example K.

The training you mention - yes I agree
and I write in form to test myself - to see if I am capable of doing it like the classic poets did.  I try something new to be creative or maybe that type of poetry is suitable for expressing my feelings at the time.  And yes, your comparison is beautiful, I do look back and use what is taught to me or what I have learned and use it later. ( althought I just tried to write free verse and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, kept popping in my head . . .)

The senyru or haiku I cannot do well at all - it is too limiting for me when others do it with grace.  I am just a bigmouth lol.

But yes, very good points you have brought here Karen indeed
xxoo
 
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