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Passions in Poetry

I miss you! (rough draft)

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freeand2sexy
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0 posted 04-21-2009 08:10 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to Submit your Poem to Passions   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy


I stayed up those nights
Thinking about you.
I should have slept.

I smiled
Knowing you were mine,
And smiled
Knowing you were smiling, too,

What a waste.

I said
I thought,
I thought I loved you.
You said you loved me too.

You actually knew.

We were close then,
You thought we'd grow old
Together.
I knew we wouldn't,

So I pushed you away
Then cried for you.
I actually knew,
I loved you.

I lied to myself,
I didn't really know.

It took almost a year
For me to figure out,
What we were,
What we could be.

You stole
Eleven months of my life.

I never
Want to see you, again.
I miss you.

"Do you smell it? That smell. A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smells... smelly." -Mr. Krabs

© Copyright 2009 Christine Juarez - All Rights Reserved
moonbeam
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1 posted 04-22-2009 05:55 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Christine

This poem may relate more closely to your actual current experiences than some of the others you've posted recently, in that the speaker may be you.  I'm am not sure obviously, but I'm a little hesitant about commenting for that reason.  Therefore forgive me if this isn't appropriate, but this isn't the best work I've seen from you.  It's very focussed on "I" and "me" and "you" without much in the way of new or fresh language, and mostly the sort of rather abstract statements that we might see in any letter breaking off a relationship.  

I always try to be honest with my comments Christine, and I know you can do better than this, but sometimes we just need to write to let things out, and if this is one of those times, then that's fine too .

M
freeand2sexy
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2 posted 04-22-2009 05:26 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Yeah, this is about me and it is personal, but that's not the only reason it sucks. It also sucks because I just happen to suck at free verse.

"Do you smell it? That smell. A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smells... smelly." -Mr. Krabs

Bob K
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3 posted 04-22-2009 07:07 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


Sorry, Ms. Smarty,

            If you were really good at sucking at free verse, you wouldn't have been able to pull off the last couple of lines.  

     If you go back and look at e.e. cummings, whose verse is all over the page, you'll be able to see that a lot of his verse is actually sonnets and formal stuff; it only looks like free verse.  Sometimes it's really free verse.  You gonna be able to say which is which?

     A guy who's writing now, Dennis Johnson, has been writing mostly novels for a long time, and most of them are pretty decent.  He's got some really decent poetry, too.  One book is called [i]The Incognito Lounge[i], if you'd every want to check that out, but most any book of poems by him is mind-bending and incredible.  Some of his first poems he wrote , he wrote at about your age, and they were sonnets, and they came out in an anthology called, [i]Quickly Aging Here[i] way back before the printing press, when people published books by striking two students together and allowing the sparks to inspire them.  It's been so very long I may be hazy on some of the finer details.  My memory's gotten bad, ever since I hit 300.

     If you want a link to see a few of Denis Johnson's poems on line, you might try googling his name and the word "poems" and see what you can get.  I was able to see three or four, and I own his poetry books, so that sent me back to them in a hurry.  His reputation as a novelist (he won the national book award a few years back) has overshadowed what he's done as a poet.  That's simply wrong.

     This poem of yours isn't as good as some of your others, but then it's a draft, and to talk about it as a finished poem means you're 17, not that you suck.  By the way.  In poetry, I would encourage you to lie, and to lie big-time.  Just because the guy was a boring sort of jerk in real life, doesn't mean that you have to keep him that way as you work on the poem.  You can make him an interesting sort of jerk.  How interesting a jerk you make him is limited only by your imagination; none of us know him.  We know nothing of his personal grooming, the way he smells, how frequently he showers, what he does with small animals.

     As somebody who has a God given right to lie about these things, why aren't you doing so?  The more interesting the lie, the further it will be from being identifiable as the actual person, and you don't want to actually libel an identifiable person, which is legally not such a good thing to do.

     In any sort of writing, free verse or not, you'll want to include as many sensory details as possible to bring the thing to life.  Visual detail; sounds; the feel of things in terms of texture, weight and stuff like that, rather than the emotion of things, are very useful in bringing a reader into a poem or any piece of writing; and the scent of things as well — scent seems almost hard-wired into emotional memory.  Talk about a spaghetti dinner isn't as evocative as talk about the scent of cooking onions and garlic and tomato as the sauce is poured over the linguine, right?

     Remember your own darn comment in the title of this thread — rough draft — and get off that very high horse.  You are unfortunately as talented here as you are at formal verse, simply less experienced, and disgracefully unused to lying in your creative work.  In your life, Bad Idea.  In your poetry, good idea.  It breaks you out of your standardized ways of thinking of things and it has a good chance of getting you closer to what the real truth may be.

     If you want to take a pot shot at me, I've got some stuff in the current alley free verse thread, an older version of a poem and a newer one so people can have a look at how I've been doing some revisions between last year and this.
This is not to suggest you need to work my way.  This is only to offer a snapshot between two widely separated drafts.  And comment, especially if it is concrete, is welcome.  Part of the purpose of the thread is to get folks used to commenting on other people's work, so they can start to develop their own ideas about what they think may be important to look for when they revise their own.  All ideas expressed are considered tentative, though you might get some people to think about what they're doing and they might ask you about your thoughts in a bit more detail.  They also may not.  Look over the earlier part of the thread for what to expect.  Nothing you can't deal with fairly easily, I suspect.

     Or not, if you'd rather.  You're doing great here.

All my best, Bob Kaven

[This message has been edited by Bob K (04-23-2009 04:28 AM).]

moonbeam
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4 posted 04-23-2009 03:43 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Believe me Christine you have just been given a load of really excellent advice here from Bob, read it carefully, specially the bit about lying to tell the truth.

There's a lot of fuss made about the differences between free verse and formal verse, it's really no big deal.  More later.

M
freeand2sexy
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5 posted 04-23-2009 06:53 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Okay so let me get this straight,

-I do suck at FV but not as much I think I do

-lying in poetry is good

-and I need to include sensory details

Honestly I never really liked FV at all. I use to strongly dislike it, but now for whatever reason I want to be able to at least right a decent one.

Though I do want to be able to write a good FV, I think I'm going to take many steps back and work on my Villanelle, no Moonbeam, I haven't forgotten, I just haven't had any inspiration to write the prose sketch.

Oh, and just in case either of you were wondering, yes I have been reading a lot of contemporary poems, many of them being Free Verse.

"Do you smell it? That smell. A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smells... smelly." -Mr. Krabs

Bob K
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6 posted 04-24-2009 01:19 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Do you know Theodore Roethke?

     I was thinking of his Villanelle, "I wake to Sleep."  If you don't know it, you might like it.

     Actually, there may be a lot of his things you'd like, but you did mention villanelles.
Bob K
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7 posted 04-24-2009 01:39 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Do you know Theodore Roethke?

     I was thinking of his Villanelle, "I wake to Sleep."  If you don't know it, you might like it.

     Actually, there may be a lot of his things you'd like, but you did mention villanelles.

     And, no, it not that you don't suck at free verse as much as you think you do.  How would I know that?  It that you don't seem to suck at free verse as much as you appear to hope to.  Yes, sensory details are very good. And you might try running an experiment for yourself instead of trying to take my word for any of this.  At the end of the day, you're going to be the person putting your name at the end of the poem, so anything that sounds like I know remotely like I know what I'm saying is something you'd better check out for yourself.

     I can't think of any reason in the world you have to believe me unless you tried it out yourself and decided if I was talking sense or nonsense.  I wouldn't believe me if I were you.  I'd check it out myself and see if what I was saying actually made sense and worked the way I said it did or not.  Just because you're 17 doesn't mean you can't check things out for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

     Try tossing in some really huge lies into a revision of that poem about the guy.  Make him the most wonderful guy who ever lived who only had ears for what you said.  Make him the most wretched idiot anyone ever heard of.  Give him an extra head.  The bigger the lies the better, good or ill, but make them specific.

     Play with the sound and jazz the fun of the sounds up, then revise back so that the poem makes actual prose sense.  Compare it to the version you've got here and let me know what the result was for you.  Which poem is the poem that you think is the better poem, and why do you think so?

     Don't take the word of a four hundred year old guy who hangs by his toes and acts like a gorilla.  Check it out yourself and tell me where I'm right and tell me where I'm wrong and show the work that says so.  The idea is to help you do the stuff you want to do, not make me look good.

     Though if you really need me to look silly, I do that fairly easily as well, I'm told, I'm simply as as helpful that way.  All my best,

Bob Kaven  
moonbeam
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8 posted 04-24-2009 03:38 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Christine

Remember this:
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum108/HTML/000308.html

Ok, I know you threw in a few end rhymes, and there was some semblance of meter, but it really wasn't that far from being "free".  Moreover it was a fun story with lots going on.  Try something similar, imaginary and dramatic, just leave out the end rhyme and simply go with what sounds good to you read out loud.

Villanelle  

Oh, and who have you been reading?

M
freeand2sexy
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9 posted 04-24-2009 01:39 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Theodore Roethke, yup I've read some of his poems. Is "I Wake to sleep" also called "The Waking" 'cause then yeah I've read it and yeah I like it, too.

I already wrote a second draft of my poem and it still kind of sucks, maybe I need to lie more. I'll work on a 3rd draft; you can never have too many draft, maybe.

The reason why I want to suck so bad at FV, which I'm sure you both have already guessed, is because I'm just scared that I'm going to try really hard and then fail. If I don't try and fail, I at least know that I failed because I didn't try, not because I wasn't good enough.

Aw, my superhero poem, I love that poem. It was so fun to write.

And that's another reason why I don’t care for FV so much, because you can't use rhyme. I love to rhyme. I think it's easier for me to write a poem if it rhymes.

I'll keep on working on my FV and see where I can fix it.

Contemporary poets I'm reading:

Daisy Fried
Maya Angelou
Sharon Olds
Larry Levis
Maggie Estep


So Superhero (part 2)

So where is my superhero
Oh where can he be
I need him once again
To help me write poetry

So superhero where are you
Why waste important time
They say you're in Las Vegas
But not to fight crime

So my silly superhero
Why are you so far away
Your taking shots with…?
No that's not okay

So superhero what's with you
They whisper that you've changed
Dancing and drinking
Are you going insane?

So superhero, are you over it
I see you coming my way
But I don't need you anymore
'Cause I got Rob and Bob K



"Do you smell it? That smell. A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smells... smelly." -Mr. Krabs
Bob K
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10 posted 04-24-2009 05:49 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Who says you don't get to rhyme?  I knew I guy who liked to rhyme every second to fifth word.  He didn't always do it that way, but he did it a lot.  You might see if you can find poems by Richard Hugo called "Crinian Canal" and "Degrees of Gray in Phillipsburg."  Try reading them to yourself, but outloud so you can hear some of the way mad stuff he does with rhyme and language in general, because you don't even begin to pick it up if you're a silent reader.  Hugo makes rap music sound flat and dull when he's really on a roll, but again, you'd never know it unless you try reading him out loud.  You may be able to get a recording of him reading a poem or two, because he made some, but they're very hard to come by.  He died in 1982.  He was one giant ham, but wonderful, and I think he would have liked your stuff as much as I do.  I think he would have liked Jennifer Maxwell, too.  His teacher, like a lot of poets in his generation, was Theodore Roethke, and he was a wonderful teacher, and he's got a couple of good books on teaching poetry that are worth getting out of the library.  It's probably more important for you to simply keep writing and reading poems right now, but those books are there for you someday, if you stay interested.
freeand2sexy
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11 posted 04-24-2009 06:32 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

The fact that I can still rhyme is awesome. Thank God!!!

"Do you smell it? That smell. A kind of smelly smell.
The smelly smell that smells... smelly." -Mr. Krabs

moonbeam
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12 posted 04-25-2009 03:05 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Heh, I love that last line Christine

Yes, as Bob said before, attention to sound is very important in FV and of course internal rhyme and slant rhyme is a very important part of sound.

freeand2sexy
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13 posted 04-25-2009 01:22 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Sound is IMPORTANT!! Got it!

"A poem should not mean
But be."      
          -Archibald MacLeish      

Grinch
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14 posted 04-25-2009 05:02 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I suck at FV.

Mind you I also suck at rhyme too, but for some reason I still enjoy writing the stuff.

Where’s your superhero?
I think you’ll find they hide
In Saturn’s rings, and other things,
But mostly deep inside.

She’s hiding somewhere in there,
I can hear her move about.
A whisper here an image there
Just write and let her out.

Just write, read, and enjoy yourself – if other people enjoy what you write consider it a bonus.

Bob K
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15 posted 04-26-2009 04:27 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Grinch,

          First of all those eight lines were very good, they made sense, they moved, and they gave pleasure.  When I went back a second time, they did it again.

     You don't suck at free verse, you haven't done enough free verse to be any good at sucking at free verse yet.  The stuff you were working on was actually pretty good, but you wanted it to be perfect before you were done with it, and you were scared of failing enough to get better.  Concentrate on making more and larger mistakes so you can learn different things with them.

     I can suck at free verse because I've had decades of practice at it.  And sometimes something gets by me that's actually not so sucky.  The Waste basket is your friend.  There are a couple of other free verse exercises or suggestions in  the Here's A Free Verse Exercise that's in the alley's backlog.  JM and Rob and I all have stuff that you're welcome to offer concrete feedback on, to help you open up a dialogue on how you see the writing and revision process, and you're welcome to post old or new stuff.  Even seeing you pop up like this is a thrill.  Good to see you.  Ms. F&2 S is quite something, isn't she?  & Rob and JM were both doing some pretty amazing stuff.

Mr. Bob.
moonbeam
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16 posted 04-26-2009 05:39 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Good thread Christine, Bob, Grinch.

Just seen your reading list Christine.  Good stuff.  I love Olds.  Have you read any Carol Ann Duffy? (She's English, tipped to be our next Poet Laureate maybe).
freeand2sexy
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17 posted 04-27-2009 01:25 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

No I haven't read any of her poems, but I think I have heard of her before. I'll make sure to read some of her poems.

"A poem should not mean
But be."      
          -Archibald MacLeish      

krad008
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18 posted 05-02-2009 10:23 AM       View Profile for krad008   Email krad008   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for krad008

Wow that was really pretty. And i can relate, Its rough, but I was the one who got pushed away
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