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WindWalker
Senior Member

since 2001-10-12

Posts 1218

0 posted 2005-04-12 11:24 AM

Here's something that puzzles me
about humans on planet earth:
They gleefully start wars
exploit, oppress and kill one another
(preferably their weak, poor or
their women and children –
for these pose no real threat
to the warrior's safety.)
But let a human walk the street
in the nude, let's say,
and society raises a fine uproar
at such horrible immorality!

Within moments the perpetrator
is in a paddy wagon or safely behind bars
to have his mind analyzed
by the world's greatest shrinks.
In some societies, he'll be condemned to death,
in others, never see freedom again.

We oppress, starve, kill, murder:
none of it is wrong if it is done right,
that is, it's government certified,
or the economy demands it,
or God, or Allah, call for it.

But we cannot walk around naked,
or have children out of wedlock
that's perverted and adulterous, you see,
and for that, one surely deserves to die.

So say those who lead us: to where?
To endless war and endless death
to protect their wonderful morals.

If you were from another world,
would you not think this quirk a bit strange?

Martie

Moderator

Member Empyrean

since 1999-09-21

Posts 28049
California

1 posted 2005-04-12 11:35 AM

WindWalker

"If you were from another world,
would you not think this quirk a bit strange?"

Yep....never thought about this, but now I have....thanks!

Gentle Spirit
Member Patricius

since 2000-10-09

Posts 13989

2 posted 2005-04-12 11:41 AM

Perhaps we would!

Thought provoking write here.

majnu

Senior Member

since 2002-10-13

Posts 1088
SF Bay Area

3 posted 2005-04-12 11:42 AM

a reasonably outraged rant. entertaining.

-majnu
--------------------------------------
Timid thoughts be not afraid. I am a Poet.

Ratleader

Member Rara Avis

since 2003-01-23

Posts 7026
Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass

4 posted 2005-04-12 02:23 PM

It's easy to personalize such things, and speak as if it were actually we who do them, because no matter who does the deed we feel a human responsibility for its having happened.

There are rather limited groups of people who actually do the ugly things you describe, like preferring to kill women and children in a war, or even starting an unprovoked war in the first place. Some of those same societies do have harsh prohibitions on public nudity, but they're not us. Ours, meaning Western societies in general, don't, and for the most part they don't start wars without some heinous provocation.

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______________Ratleader______________

majnu

Senior Member

since 2002-10-13

Posts 1088
SF Bay Area

5 posted 2005-04-12 02:35 PM

rat: western society eh? how about 3 crusades, 2 world wars, the native americans, south america in shambles, the numerous confilcts they started and left in the mid east and asia, not to mention the re-occuring genocide that takes place in europe (last time 1999 bosn/herz or however you pronounce those chzech type names).

i am not saying anyone in the world is beyond reproach but to defend wester society is like defending lucifer before the high seat.

-majnu
--------------------------------------
Timid thoughts be not afraid. I am a Poet.

Ratleader

Member Rara Avis

since 2003-01-23

Posts 7026
Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass

6 posted 2005-04-12 03:42 PM

3 crusades, 700 years ago, when nothing of the western world was remotely like it is today.

2 world wars, each started as a revolt against western civilization, particularly the second one, which was announced as such.

Native Americans, who were treated badly a century or two ago and are treated well today. In addition to its other benefits, western civilization is the one that learns from its mistakes. There's slavery even today in the East, but not in the West.

Conflicts started by who, in the Middle East and Asia? Read a history book before you make this assertion. The French and British have some responsibility because they tried to force western ways on people who weren't ready for them, and that a century or three ago though it carried into the 1900's.... but that's about it.

Genocide that takes place in the parts of Europe that don't accept western ways....and doesn't take place in the parts that do. WW2 was about stopping genocide by people who were set against the west...remember? You know, Dachau, Nanking....not Dayton or Nantucket.....

"i am not saying anyone in the world is beyond reproach but to defend wester society is like defending lucifer before the high seat."

I would. The west is what has worked to end the very evils you speak of -- after growing out of them itself, of course. Is it perfect? Goodness no! Is it light years ahead of the next best thing? Yep.

But....I felt I had to answer, but this isn't the right forum for this kind of talk....I might comment again if this thread gets moved to a discussion forum, but not here. Let's go do poetry!

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______________Ratleader______________

Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

7 posted 2005-04-12 03:46 PM

This alludes to a problem I've posed many a time.

quote:
There are rather limited groups of people who actually do the ugly things you describe, like preferring to kill women and children in a war, or even starting an unprovoked war in the first place. Some of those same societies do have harsh prohibitions on public nudity, but they're not us. Ours, meaning Western societies in general, don't, and for the most part they don't start wars without some heinous provocation.

You may be right here, Ratleader, but it bypasses the problem as a whole. If you take a look at popular media and the violence therein, you see a different story - in the Western civilizations, which ones are the "Blockbusters?" Are they the stories of love and hope and peace and all things fuzzy and good, or are they the ones where buildings are destroyed, people killed, natural disasters encountered?

I've mentioned it here in these forums before and I'll do so again, because it shows so well the bass-ackwards method our societal morals work:

After seeing "Starship Troopers," an incredibly violent movie focused solely on war (with aliens, granted, but with a much higher human death toll than alien toll), she found herself quite upset. See, amidst all the severed limbs, guns a-blazing, death and terror, the producers had the audacity to show the rear ends of male and female soldiers... in the shower together! Just unacceptable and gratuitous, she assured me.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.

Ratleader

Member Rara Avis

since 2003-01-23

Posts 7026
Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass

8 posted 2005-04-12 04:10 PM

You much right there, Christopher! We watch Private Ryan without a blink, and whine about naughty double entendre's in Shrek.....

...but during the past two hundred years, one of the main focal points of western thinking has been, how to drag ourselves out of the muck.

Ach, there I go talking again when I said I wouldn't! Super-glueing lips at this here time.....

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______________Ratleader______________

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