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Open Poetry #28
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Marge Tindal
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Florida's Foreverly Shores

0 posted 2003-08-15 06:32 PM



Sins Of Silence
~*Marge Tindal*~

When something you've purposely said or done
has hurt ... really hurt someone
how does it make you feel
to know that they weep
in tear-stained keep
until their wounds are Real God healed~

Yours are the sins of silence
for never uttering
the apology you owed
to the person you owed it to~

Apparently, it matters not to you
that you sinned again and again
in hurt of someone else's friend
Though Real God has been known
to forgive insensitive idiots
He definitely knows that you failed
to make the proper amends~

You can fool some of the populace
some of the time ...
but Real God has got your number
every time~

So quit your whining ... and suck it up~
You're a
"SUCCESS", remember ?

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com

© Copyright 2003 Marge Tindal - All Rights Reserved
QjQ
Member Elite
since 2003-04-18
Posts 3756
U.S.A.
1 posted 2003-08-15 07:38 PM


Truer words have never been penned or spoken,  This should be posted daily!!!!

I'm retracting my reply to this post due to my misunderstanding of the post, I thought i was replying to a write of poetry only to find out it was personal ,

(To mince is to build character of understanding)

        

[This message has been edited by QjQ (08-16-2003 02:33 PM).]

Marge Tindal
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2 posted 2003-08-16 09:54 AM


QjQ~
Thank you so very much for your reply~

I was just discussing with my pastor that it's funny how those who offer hollow apologies to everyone BUT the person they SHOULD apologize to, and then feel so pretentiously indignant when others don't forgive them for their tresspass of pain-infliction ... and yet, until they truly atone in their hearts with a SINCERE apology to the person they harmed, He does not 'forgive' them of the evil of their ways.

And so, I have learned that we can only change ourselves in our sincerity, love and comfort to a 'true friend' ... and not bow down to false god's in seek of attention~
quote:
"being responsible for my words doesn't mean I have to mince them." RCarnell
... me either~

Have a beautiful day~
*Huglets*
~*Marge*~





~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com

Marsha
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since 2000-07-10
Posts 7423
Maidstone Kent England
3 posted 2003-08-16 10:43 AM


Margie girl beloved sister of my soul and speaker of my spirit, there is within this beauty that which should, nay, must be read by everyone. Sometimes just hearing the word sorry, when it’s spoken with genuine remorse for that which has occurred, does help to heal. But rather than that we should learn to hold our tongues, learn that wisdom means sometimes we should not speak. Oh well, no one has ever said that we frail and fault ridden souls are perfect, which is of course why we need to read HIS words and really understand them. 'Love others above yourself', never have there been truer words either written or spoken, and we should each one of us at least try to do some good daily. You always do, which is why you inspire such fault ridden souls as I

Those words that cut like sharpest knife
Bring forth such pain and sorrows strife
Those barbed and hurtful things we say
Live on and on and grow each day
Until that pain rips our souls apart
Then we wish it would just go, depart
But no rest from that pain can we find
Until those words are wiped from our mind

So think before those words you say
Exact a price that no heart should pay

Love you always
and forever
Mushy

Tomorrow is another day I don't know what it holds
but I can face the future with courage brave and bold

Footprints In My Heart
Kethry

Margherita
Member Seraphic
since 2003-02-08
Posts 22236
Eternity
4 posted 2003-08-16 11:18 AM


You say it with such heartfelt intensity. Yes forgiveness is the key to live in peace and harmony.
It is not an easy task to ask to be forgiven. May we all grow in the awareness of love and hurt no one.
Love, Margherita

MoniDaPoet
Member
since 2003-08-14
Posts 73
California, USA
5 posted 2003-08-16 12:41 PM


Thank you so VERY much! I hear you loud and clear and I hope that this message gets read and travels to all the bullies of the world. I and so many 'victims' applaud you for your bold words and thoughts.

I have only my genius to declare!

Poet deVine
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since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
6 posted 2003-08-16 12:51 PM


Since you quoted one of my favorite people in the whole world, I will go out on a limb here and not mince my words for you Marge.

I applaud your steadfast loyalty to your friend. But having only one side of the story makes this argument uneven.

You continue to 'bait' us but as you know, discussions about members by the Moderators/Administrators is not appropriate so we are left to bite our tongues. But let me say this because it's MY personal opinion.
I defended your friend for a long time. I couldn't understand what the others were talking about. And then? Then I had to change my mind when, by her own words, she proved the others right.

So stand by your friend! It's commendable. But I have to stand by my principles and tell you that with only ONE side of the story, you cannot see the whole picture! It was the same for me too so I understand how you can feel this way.

Please stop making snide remarks about the Moderating team and Ron. It's not nice.

Magnus
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South Carolina, USA
7 posted 2003-08-16 12:52 PM


Well said Marge,  lotsa guts in this!
serenity blaze
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since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

8 posted 2003-08-16 01:20 PM


Since I believe that this is partially directed at me, I suppose I'll quit my "sinning" of silence and say something. For those in the dark, I believe that this poem was in response to my offering of an olive branch to Marge yesterday, when I posted this poem, which she once told me was her favorite that I'd written:
/pip/Forum81/HTML/000897.html

Now I would like to say that I offered up apologies to the party that you mentioned, quite publicly too, much in the same manner I am doing now. Right here in open. I followed up with a conciliatory e mail to the same party, and that should have been the end of it. My apology was refused, because it was called deemed insincere and untimely. It was further followed with personal attacks. So, in order to protect myself I changed my e mail, and chose to ignore the slander.

I also offered up an apology to YOU, Marge, because you seemed to be so offended by this situation. I apologized for my part in this fiasco, even tho the situation had long since ceased being "about me"--that apology was also ignored. I will have to paraphrase what I said to you then, and I will say to all of you now.

"I apologize for my part in this bit of nastiness in the forum. I am a human being, and I make mistakes, and being human, I will continue to do so. All that I can do is apologize, and try to do better in the future."

That was also sadly ignored.

Marge, you and I were once so close that I called you m.o.m.s. (mother of my soul)

I simply had hopes of mending the rift that has bothered so many here at this "circle of friends". It wasn't an attempt to whine, or even test your loyalty to your friend. I admire that loyalty, but can't help but wonder where that same loyalty is for myself, and for others that you once called friend. Where is the tolerance, patience and forgiveness that I know are the tenets of the New Testament?

Is there nothing in that little black book for ME?

I leave my psalm as a sincere gesture of goodwill toward you, and your friend.

But now, I fear I have done more harm than good, so much as Christ instructed the apostles, regarding cities who would not receive them, I must "wash the dust" from my feet regarding this matter.

My conscience is clean that I have done all that I can do, and I wish you peace and happiness in all of your endeavors.

But I leave you with a final plea:

Let this circles of friends heal. Stop the religious persecuation, and social astrocism and just write some poetry. That is what I have been trying to do.

I simply missed our friendship Marge.

If I must apologize for apologizing, since that offended you so, I am truly sorry for causing you offense by the posting of my "psalm".

Here it is. Again. Right here in Open.

I'll wait to be slapped down, AGAIN.

But I believe Jesus Christ said you must forgive seventy times seven, so I will just "suck it up" and quit whining now.

Peace. I do mean that sincerely.

[This message has been edited by serenity blaze (08-16-2003 03:38 PM).]

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA
9 posted 2003-08-16 02:08 PM


I'm disappointed, Marge.  I recall privately advising you that there are "two sides" in all issues, and that you have NO way of knowing what's been happening administratively with this issue.

You assured me that you understood.

Now I'll publicly address it.  You have NO idea how many FAIR and compassionate chances your friend was given before having to leave this site.  If you choose to believe otherwise, that is your prerogative.  However, our members don't deserve to have to change their email address to avoid harassment, and we'll continue to do what we can to protect them from having to do so.

If anyone in this instance is due an apology, it's surely Ron - and perhaps that apology should be given from more than one person.




[This message has been edited by Nan (08-16-2003 02:13 PM).]

Mysteria
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10 posted 2003-08-16 02:32 PM


I tried to be quiet so kindly excuse my outburst and intrusion but I am one of thousands of grateful folks that appreciate this site, its members, and Ron Carnell for giving me a place to put what comes of my little hobby.  Therefore, I am curious, are you not biting the hand that feeds you?   Is not your personal site on the Internet courtesy of one Mr. Ron Carnell, as is the large amount of storage you use on his site for storing your poetry, and free of charge?  I see something terribly wrong with the tone of this poem and your comments within.  I truly wish to know what it is that makes you think that you are beyond reproach for being responsible for your actions, and I wish to challenge it this time Marge, as you have been “pushing buttons” for a while now. I truly commend you for trying to honor a friendship.  I have decided I could take whatever you dished me, but I will be darned if I can accept you insulting the owner of the very site that has given you so much, and you do it so proudly and publicly like there would be no repercussions.

I am not speaking as a moderator, but as a member that knows only bits and pieces of this, and won’t even begin to try to understand it, or pass any judgement because of it.  But your attacking the one person who gives you space to write freely, and defend a person who almost stalked another member of this site, is something I wish to address?  Isn’t there something wrong with this picture, and I can only speak to things I know are true.  The truth is this poem is a personal attack on the one person who gives a lot (free of charge at his own personal expense) to so many, and was extremely fair to your friend.  

How can you honestly present this poem and yourself in the light of a true Christian (bringing in a Pastor to further your venom), and make such blatant attacks on another human being, publicly in their OWN YARD?  I for one want it known I do not accept this behavior of yours, and if I again become a target of your anger, well so be it, and I will deal with it when that happens.  

Now you can easily say this is not my business but you have made it my business, as I am a member of this poetic community, and I would protect you as well if you were attacked in such a manner.  I think you owe Ron Carnell a very open and public apology for us all to see, in order to be accepted once again into this community, or some action should be taken.

And by the way, I am not happy showing the angry side of me in a public place, but I am very angry. Some are strong enough to turn the other cheek, and I suppose there needs to be a few weak ones as well to help them along.


[This message has been edited by Mysteria (08-16-2003 08:29 PM).]

Poet deVine
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Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
11 posted 2003-08-16 03:43 PM


This is not an admonishment (since I feel I started it) but please, if you wish to address this issue, do so in the Alley. Let's confine the rest of this thread to discussions of the poetry and not the poet or her intentions.

I'm sorry I started this but no one would address it in the Alley.

And please, no personal attacks...those are not allowed by anyone!

passing shadows
Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577
displaced
12 posted 2003-08-16 04:45 PM


I almost find myself laughing at things that become issues and how they find their way to being an "issue"

but me...I don't know the other side so I suppsoe I should keep quiet

good poem Marge...makes one really think...
and that's exactly what you meant to do

guilt does strange things to people

vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-07-25
Posts 8229
Somewhere... out there...
13 posted 2003-08-16 07:30 PM



Marge...I've been contemplating whether or not to
reply to this, and I just feel that I have to.  I will,
however, try to keep my comments focused on
the poem and it's content, rather than the specific
issue that it addresses.

"When something you've purposely said or done
has hurt ... really hurt someone
how does it make you feel
to know that they weep
in tear-stained keep"


Yes...and this works in both directions...

"Though Real God has been known
to forgive insensitive idiots"


These lines strike me as a bit contradictory...to speak
of 'Real God' in the context of referring to someone as
an 'insensitive idiot', just doesn't make sense to me.

"He definitely knows that you failed
to make the proper amends~"


Yes...He does know the TRUTH of ALL sides and it is
up to Him, not us, to pass judgment.

"You can fool some of the populace
some of the time ...
but Real God has got your number
every time~"


Yes...He does...and this, too, is true for ALL of us.

I guess, overall, I am very disappointed, and saddened,
by the 'feel' of this poem  To speak of 'Real God', yet at
the same time, to be so judgmental and harsh towards
another of God's children, just makes me hurt inside.

NONE of us is any more than human, and it is not up to us
to decide the fate of another or to assume what God will
decide another's judgment to be.

We are all the same in His eyes.  We have ALL 'sinned' and,
as humans, we will continue to do so, but God does not love
us any less as a result of our mistakes...and neither should
we love EACH OTHER any less.  That, in my opinion, is what
forgiveness is about...loving and accepting, regardless of the flaws.

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my
brethren, ye have done it unto me."  Matthew 25:40

I believe that text speaks, not only of being kind to others, but
also of hurting others.  When we are cruel and unforgiving to
'the least of these', we are, in essence, being cruel and
unforgiving to Him.  Just my opinion, of course.

I don't mean to sound 'preachy'...this poem just struck
something in me, and I had to voice my thoughts.  I do not
claim to be perfect...far from it.  I have made my share
of mistakes just like everyone else.

Marge...you know me, and you know that I love you dearly,
but I can't help but take exception to the sentiments in this poem.  

I simply pray that we can all find peace with each other and move on in a positive manner.

Hugs to all,
~Vicky



"My friends are my estate."
~Emily Dickinson

[This message has been edited by vlraynes (08-17-2003 04:35 AM).]

Balladeer
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since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
14 posted 2003-08-17 01:40 AM


I do trust the judgement of the moderators of this fine site to look out for and protect the interest of ALL the poets who live here.

If they made a decision ... I'd have to
believe that it was made in the best
interest for the site.

Their wisdom and their compassion is
well-known by this lady personally.
I hope you will attempt to understand that they are here for ALL of us.
Bless you and have a nice evening.
~*Marge*~

-----------------------------------------------------------------

We all commend Ron on his successful efforts
with this wonderful site.
One of the very reasons it's grown to the proportions it has is because of his attentiveness to keeping it clean
for all members to enjoy.

By the time most of us realize we have poetic tendencies
we've long outgrown the shock value of bathroom wall graffiti.

Thank you Ron Carnell !
~*Marge*~

-------------------------------------------------------------


Ron Carnell has offered us a place to express ourselves within the bounds of poetic beauty, with the clear understanding that we ALL have an obligation to follow the guidelines/rules that he has set up for his home.

When it comes to the job of moderating, it might not seem like an easy job to censor a friend - however each member/friend's contributions to this site must be measured with the same yardstick. It has to be done to maintain the family atmosphere that exists at the Passions site.
Thank you, Balladeer~

--------------------------------------------------------------

Ron~
My heart-felt thanks for this place
that has surrounded me with open-arms
of friendship.

To be able to sit in your 'living room'
with such remarkably talented people is
a treasure to me.

From the bottom of my heart,
I thank you.
~*Marge*~

Thank you, Ron Carnell, for the opportunity to interact with so many talented writers in all areas.

Thank You !
~*Marge*~



BluesSerenade
Member Patricius
since 2001-10-23
Posts 10549
By the Seaside
15 posted 2003-08-17 03:15 AM


This whole thread makes me feel uncomfortable...It's a big bad world out there, and aren't we all allowed out convictions by our own definitions, isn't life short enough??  As an adult we should have learned respect by now, and act accordingly. With that said, thank you Ron for having me here, and for everything you do.   Good Lord, how low can you go!!  Don't look at me when you're drawing sides, because I don't want to know, I've got my own battles to fight, and you can be sure I'll remain civil so that the lines of communication remain open.  It's a foolish move that accomplishes nothing, and Margie,  you were rude~

This is not God's way, and not a pretty picture!



[This message has been edited by BluesSerenade (08-17-2003 04:09 AM).]

Marge Tindal
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Florida's Foreverly Shores
16 posted 2003-08-17 09:15 AM



Whoa !
Who let the dogs out ?

One of the traits of a successful poet is that others may interpret a poem in the way they see it .... thanks to each of you who may have seen a little of yourselves in this piece~
That's a very high compliment, and I thank you~

As a gracious member of this community of poets ... rest assured that I have the class to not leave a reply to each of your personal views~

Notice that my poem does not mention any names, so resemblance to any persons, living or dead, is purely interpretation on your part.
Now just how effective is that ?

Have a wonderful day ... write some poetry~
*Huglets*
~*Marge*~

~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
noles1@totcon.com

passing shadows
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since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577
displaced
17 posted 2003-08-17 11:56 AM


exactly
Ratleader
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since 2003-01-23
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Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass
18 posted 2003-08-17 06:31 PM


Hi Marge -- I liked this poem on a lot of levels, before I saw any of the responses to it....and like you I was amused at some of the responses in this thread.

Those bring to mind not just one, but two of Ratleader's Rules Of Thumb....

1] You can tell less about the things people feel guilty about by listening to what they say, than you can by observing the things that make them overreact.

2] When someone answers a question that wasn't asked, question the answer.

....and Good Writer? You??? Yep!


                      A N D

All of us (including you and me, Marge) need to go to this one, and READ it.... /pip/Forum81/HTML/001059.html


~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________

[This message has been edited by Ratleader (08-17-2003 06:45 PM).]

Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
19 posted 2003-08-17 07:01 PM


I have nothing to feel guilty about so that doesn't apply to me. And I'm not a dog.
BluesSerenade
Member Patricius
since 2001-10-23
Posts 10549
By the Seaside
20 posted 2003-08-17 07:26 PM


As a gracious member of this community of poets ... rest assured that I have the class to not leave a reply to each of your personal views~

Notice that my poem does not mention any names,

right, you only quoted them!

Ratleader
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 2003-01-23
Posts 7026
Visiting Earth on a Guest Pass
21 posted 2003-08-17 09:00 PM


....and I'm not a rat, though I've been called that in Open without complaining.

As to whether it applies to you -- if you think it does, it probably does. If you think it doesn't, then it probably doesn't. That's the way it goes with aphorisms, eh?

And Blues --- yes and yes...."gracious" and "class" -- both in large amounts.

~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________

brian sites
Senior Member
since 2002-06-25
Posts 1475
usa
22 posted 2003-08-17 11:47 PM


slicing glass onion
make glass tears
that fall
and sound
like windchime
in
typhoon

suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723
Louisiana
23 posted 2003-08-18 05:17 PM


It's hard to respond to this after reading the responses... but I couldn't help but smile at Ratleader's "As to whether it applies to you -- if you think it does, it probably does. If you think it doesn't, then it probably doesn't." For before reading the responses, I was absolutely convinced it applied to me!!! *S*

I grew up around yellers and screamers... so I guess in self defense, I often go silent... and the more upset I am, the more introspective I am... tearing myself apart instead of doing what I need to do to fix things. *S*

Your poem was a good reminder that I should use those words where they'll do more good... especially since someone else is likely to be kinder and more forgiving than I'd be to myself. *S*

Bill Charles
Member Patricius
since 2000-07-11
Posts 10619
highways, & byways, for now
24 posted 2003-08-18 09:31 PM


Marge - I know a few people that you might send this to so they can read it...

BC

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