How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Noble Savage
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Noble Savage

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 11-05-2012 07:06 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Given the absence of external threat or coercion,
which is natural man more likely: selfish or self-sacrificing,
lazy or industrious?

.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


1 posted 11-07-2012 05:59 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What do you mean by 'natural man'?

Without a context, a society, a something that influences when and how DNA does its thing, the idea of a man doesn't make much sense.

I would argue that "man" is a social animal a la Clifford Geertz.

I suppose you could argue that 'man' is defined by DNA but I don't see how your culturally loaded terms follow from that. Without a culture, an environment, 'man' is a gene reproducing machine, nothing more, nothing less (of course, you need two for that and that gets us back to culture, doesn't it?).

Still, I understand the French influence here and wonder if you mean man in hunter/gatherer societies. For an interesting take on that, give "Guns, Germs, and Steel" a shot.  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 11-07-2012 06:54 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


I mean as Magellan and Cook found him in the Pacific.


.
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


3 posted 11-13-2012 08:15 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Man (humankind) is fallen in the Biblical sense.  In other words, there is a mixture of both kinds of things you mentioned (virtue and vice).  "The Knowledge of Good and Evil".  Most societies, primitive and advanced, contain some mixture of tantalizing possibilities, and frustrating failures.  I know of no civilization that hasn't demonstrated this.  I'm sure we all agree that technological advancement does not equal moral progress, and that "civilization" is misunderstood, thought to mean one thing when in fact it is quite another.  The noble savage is a myth, and so is the noble modern.  On the other hand the savage savage, as portrayed in popular art, is likely a myth too.  :-)  
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 11-14-2012 08:20 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Wow!

We pretty much agree on this.  The cause, of course, is different.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


5 posted 11-15-2012 11:48 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
Given the absence of external threat or coercion



If there were such a life, I presume moral laziness and greed would probably increase.  If you didn't need to serve your stomach to survive, or wear warm clothes in winter to stay warm, or worry about your marriage with one woman falling apart because you love another woman too, losing a job because you don't do it efficiently enough, etc. If there were no "threat" of  losing something precious or important to us because of what we do or don't do, then the moral "standard" would probably become very weak.  

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


6 posted 06-05-2013 08:20 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


I have read a biography of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and found his concept of a “Noble Savage” to be of a man who at birth and after was a man without conscience and thereby blameless . . .


.

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


7 posted 06-06-2013 02:29 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
without conscience and thereby blameless . . .


Why/how would he be "without conscience" or "blameless"?
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Noble Savage Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors