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25 posted 07-05-2011 10:17 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Brad, I'm curious why you would begin such a discussion with anti "creation" videos.  Not sure why such a spin was necessary, given that your main idea seems to be that we are evolutionary primates therefore (be optimistic, etc ...)

The evolutionary aspect certainly doesn't collide with creationism in it's most basic form ... that God (through whatever mechanism through time) created all things, and made humanity distinct (imago Dei) despite commonality with other animals.  Theistic evolutionists believe this no less than Young-Earth creationists, or Old Earth creationists who do not accept the Theory of Common Ancestry.  Likewise, atheistic evolutionists, seem to acknowledge the distinction too, the basis of the plea for optimism, or a lauding of evolutionary possibilities.  

I would say the "creationist" position (at its most basic) is that we are not merely primates, not that we don't share a common biology with apes.  Even if one doesn't accept common ancestry, there is the comparable belief that God made us to be more than animals ... but never less than.  

I myself doubt that the vast array of species evolved from a common simple primitive organism ... But I certainly do not trifle at being called a primate, which is simply a homological category determined by an arbitrary set of characteristics.  But we should also keep in mind that there are besetting problems with homology, in establishing lineage.

Still, I'm delighted in your optimism, and enthusiasm.  

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26 posted 07-07-2011 10:14 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Discovery continues to update views on the origins of life.

Mono Lake

The building blocks of life have been altered. Textbooks are following.

The apes are speechless.

I do wish they'd quit sneaking a new hairy beau into the evolutionary family tree. Or they could at least give him a proper name that I can pronounce! Sir Harry Walker the First, or something.

I think humans marginalize possibility by being incredible.

Seems the separation factor (in itself) promotes more mystery in the form of lesser-evolved answers--How can we be so separate that we are not so separate?

The findings in arsenic are compelling and most separating.
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27 posted 07-07-2011 06:23 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad


And disputed.


Yeah, I do have a kind of guarded optimism and many atheists are also humanists. Our optimism comes from a high regard for reason and science combined with, I think, a strong aesthetic sense of the world around us.

I've mentioned this before.  Naturalism is not the bone-dry view that everything can be reduced to particles in fields of force.  We accept and appreciate the world, we don't accept the necessity of a supernatural cause for it.

Still, I wonder if you are as baffled by that as I am by your denial of common descent.  

Arbitrary homologous structures?  Don't forget it's a twin nested hierarchy: morphological and genetic homology.

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