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Balladeer

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0 posted 2010-09-26 08:45 AM

These Books have been banned by one association or another or school system over the years....do you agree?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20100924/en_ac/6827290_10_surprisingly_banned_books

Cpat Hair

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since 2001-06-05

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1 posted 2010-09-26 10:53 AM

No.... banning books is to me much like hiding your head in the sand. I don't advocate banning books or ideas, but I do counsel that they be presented in the proper context and with the proper forums for understanding when being taught or used as reference in education.

[This message has been edited by Cpat Hair (09-28-2010 08:41 AM).]

Bob K
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2 posted 2010-09-27 02:38 AM

Most everybody has books they'd rather not see in general circulation for one reason or another. It simply that we disagree on what the titles are. Mostly. I know that I don't have the pipeline the absolute Right and Wrong that would allow me to make that judgement for other people, and I think that those folks who think they have that pipeline to make the judgement for me are off their rockers. I figure it's probably not a great idea to ban books in general, and that the cure for one set of ideas is the exposure to another set of ideas.

Am I being too simple minded here?

rwood
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since 2000-02-29

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Tennessee

3 posted 2010-09-27 12:33 PM

Personal experience/perception:

I've haunted libraries for years, seen a lot of books yanked from the shelves and burned at the stake for various reasons.

The yankers and burners conducted themselves in a much more sinister manner than the books did on the shelves. In fact, I can remember fearing the groups in my youth as they ripped pages out of the bindings and burned them in barrels, screaming insults and threats toward the author or the school authorities for filling their child's mind with filth or satanism or whatever else they charged. They'd tear a body of work from limb to limb with such a viciousness I felt like I needed to hide, because I'd read the book, "To Kill a Mockingbird."

And to this day, what a dream/aspiration for me: To get it right the first time with one book--as Harper Lee did. Despite what the burners thought they were burning. Their actions had a profound affect on me, making me burn for a truth in literature, no matter how ugly the truth may be, because somewhere in the story of our lives we have to live past an ugly to know what beautiful is. So I don't despise the "censor lords" at all. I'm grateful for their influence.

But here's a link on the topic for you I'd sourced a while back on "Golden Compass" & "Pan's Labyrinth" & C.S. Lewis' "Narnia" works. All titles banned at some point-some place in the world, and I'm a fan of each book/film.

Chicago Sun Times

D'Ambrosio has some great personal points:

quote:
Censorship is the prophylactic that ensures our lives are not impregnated with culture and truth and knowledge—no matter how obscene that truth may be.

We are a civilization of great faith but poor beliefs. Yet it is not our beliefs that are poor, but the way in which we define them and use them and claim possession of them as if they are of our own making; to believe that what is true for us is true for all.

& in closing, D'Ambrosio writes:

quote:
Or a film can be well made and carry pure intentions, no matter how many people tell you otherwise.

And still I hope that these Catholic groups keep fighting until the day that our world is void of pornography, drugs, atheism, abortion, homosexuality, and films like "The Golden Compass." Because maybe then they will realize that they created a world without temptation or evil, and their children will have no faith, because in that world—why would they need it?

I do not support across the board/market banning. Though I do believe that some arenas should require parental consent & or supervision for minor appropriate material & content. The problem is who gets to decide what's appropriate or even questionable.Problems of the sort are par for the course of a public education.

But I don't feel banning is a logical answer, because it's basically free publicity and it tends to promote books to a best-selling-most-read status. Like the Bible

but such does beg the question of whether Christian organizations (or any other for that matter) should ever claim the right to ban a book.

Sunshine

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4 posted 2010-09-27 01:52 PM

Regina,

I have to agree with your response...banning of anything always seemed to contradict our 1st & 9th amendments.

Balladeer

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5 posted 2010-09-27 06:57 PM

So I don't despise the "censor lords" at all. I'm grateful for their influence.

Not that I don't agree, Regina, but does that mean that anti-smoking crusades promote smoking or that the movie ratings promote underage kids to sneak in to see pornography? If we applaud banners for causing us to investigate what they are banning, that presents it's own problems, I think.

Topics like banning or censorship are akin to discussing religion or politics. Everyone will have their own viewpoint with reasons on why theirs are right. A few examples of banning include the disappearance of:

Speedy Gonzales (portraying MExicans as lazy)
Mister Magoo (vision impaired)
Little Black Sambo (obvious)
Porky Pig (stuttering)
Amos & Andy (portraying blacks as lazy)

....and the list goes on. Undoubtedly, people with these afflictions, or race, could make a good case on why these things should be banned, although polls showed that Mexicans really loved Speedy and blacks thought Amos and Andy were very entertaining and a great program. Debating censorship would be a lost cause, I'm guessing.

I have to say, though, that in reviewing the list in this article, I'm fairly amazed. If Little Red Riding Hood is banned because there was wine in her basket, then shouldn't every novel that contains an alcoholic beverage be banned as well? If To Kill a Mockingbird is to be banned for depicting injustice against blacks or The Grapes of Wrath be banned for accurately portraying that region or Fahrenheit 451 be banned for showing ultimate censorship, is that good censorship? Should Webster's Dictionary be banned for including "oral sex" in a world where 6th graders are taught how to use a condom? What's wrong with that picture?

To quote the American Heritage Dictionary, all I can say is...

"balls".

Bob K
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6 posted 2010-09-27 07:54 PM

     Dr. Doolittle has been republished in sanitized versions these days with the racism eliminated.  There was certainly a widesrpread practice of re-writing Shakespeare and providing happier endings for many of his plays during the 18th and 19th centuries, and if you want vto start chipping away at booking for racismn, sexism or general obscenity, the bibl;e would certainly be right up there.  And that's without getting the issues of proper translation straightened out that have led us down so many interesting cultural pathways.

     Problem is we tend to censor stuff we don't like, and ignore stuff we do, and the logic gets fixed later.  There's not much consistency about it; and there's as much objectionable about the censorship process itself as there is about the material being censored.  The common element, no matter who does the censoring, is the tone.

     As might well be predicted, my attitude toward the tone that censors take is disapproving, in the same fashion as pretty much every other would be censor out there.  The fact is, I do not know better than orther people what's good for everyone, and hearing that tone in my own voice is very upsetting.

Balladeer

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7 posted 2010-09-27 08:07 PM

"There's not much consistency about it; and there's as much objectionable about the censorship process itself as there is about the material being censored."

I agree, Bob.

Balladeer

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8 posted 2010-09-27 08:37 PM

As far as Harry Potter and Narnia is concerned, I think my childhood would have been greatly diminished without the presence of the supernatural or super-heroes or characters in Greek mythology. Reading Superman never tempted me (and I can prove it) to jump off a tall building and fly. My ex-wife even call me Superman, indirectly. At least she mentioned several times that I was faster than a speeding bullet!

I'm not sure I would care to exist in this anti-septic world the censorers would like to have us occupy....as if I had a choice.

rwood
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Posts 3793
Tennessee

9 posted 2010-09-28 04:01 PM

Karilea~ Yep. "Leaves of Grass, "Arabian Nights," "Canterbury Tales," "Ulysses" All banned at some point!! Hard to believe but it's true. The "banned" is some of the best reading

Mike~ No, not all anti-camps produce the same affects, I would hope. It's not cool to smoke anywhere around here anymore, not even in the tobacco fields. LOL!!

On porn/mature sex themes: There are serious charges that Puritanism in America is the cause for much of our sexual plights. According to the opinion of some of our European friends. And some homegrown sexperts have produced certain theories about rigidity. Of course the pervs are in complete agreement with that notion.

My point is the hostile groups' actions do tend to backfire, as they did with me. Just my personal experience. But that type of lashing out has sent books to a bestseller list. Some write to incite venom and hope for it because it means they will sell sell sell. Free promo strategies. The biggest cases-in-point to my memory: Falwell v. Flynt--Hustler v. Falwell.

I've had to be "Monitor Mom" for content with my children. When my daughter was 11, she brought home a copy of "Lolita" from a friend's house. I didn't react. I gave her an accurate synopsis of the story. She gave me an "Eeeewww, that's gross!" And the book went back to the friend without any thing else said.

She and I both were in disbelief when a local group burned Harry Potter books on our college campus because it "glamorized sorcery/witchcraft."

And oh my goodness the computer!! There is everything under the sun out there for our kids to see. Things I never want to lay eyes on for any reason! But I can't decide for the world what's appropriate in cyberspace.

My son was so advanced with computers that I had to put the pc in the trunk of my car when I left for work. No such thing as a password or "safe-surf" setting around him. Now, he's a security tech and he can monitor/fix my pc from Germany. So I'm glad I didn't completely forbid the pc in our home, even though it was an extremely sore subject between us at times.

Bob nails the whole air of censorship for me, too: "Negative inconsistency & tone."

It seems ok that kids sit-in on graphic violence all over a screen, but not if there's a bare butt somewhere along the bloodstained streets, OR It's ok to show a gal hopping in bed with every Tom, Dick & Harry. She gets pregnant with Tom's baby, Tom disappears, and Harry is the culprit but then he gets nixed due to bad ratings, then Dick tries to kill her and the baby when Tom shows back up later on in the soap. I think Victor (Y&R) has fathered a nation over the past 30 years!!

There's anti-everything campaigns these days. There's probably an Anti-Salad coalition for endangered species of lettuce.

People get on different bandwagons for different things, and I think it's ok when some people put forth efforts to make a sensible difference. M.A.D.D. for instance. Hasn't stopped drunk-driving, but I understand the plight. I understand the plight with underage drinking/drugs/sex etc. And I understand the anti-smoking plight. And graphic violence & gore is not an art form for me, but maybe it is for somebody?

I think we're in agreement that we'll get it wrong when we try to think/make choices for all others, but some really do like to try. It's a kick for them. A passion. A belief. A sense of purpose. And the intent may be innocent, I don't know. But oftentimes the force of a banning carries with it a darkness that is more harmful than the content in question.

P.S. The Beverly Hillbillies is still being shown on TV Land. "What in tarnation!!

Southern folk have thick skin.

Balladeer

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10 posted 2010-09-28 08:12 PM

Regina, I love the way you rock and roll!

Sunshine

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11 posted 2010-09-28 10:46 PM

And 'Deer...I'm so glad you're in agreement with Regina!...

just 'cause!

Dark Stranger
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12 posted 2010-09-30 01:14 PM

I'd say let us keep all the books and just ban reason. Books can't hurt anyone unless you think about what you read.

As for burning books, I believe the main cause of global warming was the incineration of same to date. (with exception of writings by Gore which were methane anyway)

rwood
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since 2000-02-29

Posts 3793
Tennessee

13 posted 2010-10-01 07:21 AM

Mike & Karilea~ Awww.

Squeezes.

Thanks. Yall are awesome. Sometimes I feel like my rock has rolled away.

Gotta love superheros. My favs are Batman

& Ironman is robo-hot!

D~ LOL. Mighty-fine observation. I love it. Marvel needs new material. How about "Dark Stranger vs. The Global Gore." I envision a huge resurgence in sales. I mean, I know Al is cheezy-easy and he'd have to be seriously pumped-up for a match but obviously he likes being game. Hehe.

Your comment also reminded me of Stephen Colbert quote:

quote:
"I don't trust books. They're all fact, no heart. And that's exactly what's pulling our country apart today. Because face it, folks, we are a divided nation. Not between Democrats or Republicans, or conservatives and liberals, or tops and bottoms. No, we are divided by those who think with their head, and those who know with their heart.

Sunshine

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14 posted 2010-10-01 09:00 PM

Regina,

Let me be totally honest. I grew up thinking that the super-humans in my life were not only in stories, but in real life! I was advantaged in the way that so many children weren’t; but not by money. By family! My father and uncles allowed me at the early age of six to climb a roof with them and learn how to hammer in a nail on the hot shingles. My mother came by and nearly had a fit.

I learned that men were men because they allowed their women to be women in all of the best ways…to have a voice and character, and did not keep them submissive. When the 70’s came along with Archie, I recognized him as archaic compared to my parents, aunts and uncles. They had gone a long way already to the sharing of the pants, literally and figuratively. Yet…yet, none of them ever divorced…but the compromises were in play, in the ways of “please,”“thank you,” and “you’re welcome.”

I remember being told by my peers at the age of 12 that my folks were “too strict”…yet…when I walked up to my friends homes I could hear their parents arguing: something I never heard in my house. Now don’t get me wrong…that’s not always a good thing. Kids do need to hear arguments, as well as resolutions!

My folks thought with their heads; and leaned into their hearts for decisions. It was several decades before my mother knew she had a living father-in-law; read /main/forumdisplay.cgi?action=displayarchive&number=106&topic=000244

Point? We need heroes. We need them to be as big and/or better than our mothers and fathers. But we need our Moms and Dads to start, set, point to the examples.

rwood
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15 posted 2010-10-02 12:45 PM

Karilea~ Big Smiles. We have much in common. I'm really touched by your message. I believe in superheros because of the real superhuman people in my life, too.

Family is a mega-influence on every fiber of my being. My parents/grandparents are in a league of greatness beyond the measures of my heart or understanding. They've already forgotten more than I'll ever know. I'm privileged to have been blessed into such a family, as you well describe of your own. And anyone who becomes family by marriage or by terms of endearment are just that: Family

I'm the eldest of three girls. We are empowered as People. Being female is a beautiful bonus

There were/are no closed subjects for us in the arenas of learning & growing. We were lovingly nurtured and encouraged to excel in all we could with the best of our effort and interest. Each of us are so much alike yet so different! And we each feel important to the whole, the family unit, our belonging.

When one hurts we all hurt. Unless it's because I'm showing-off on the dirt bike and land in the bushes, or I'm bucked from the "gentle as a lamb" nightmare-hell-horse they schemed to get me to ride, or it's my turn to prepare the Thanksgiving turkey and I manage to drop the beautifully browned bird in the floor! Then they mostly LAUGH, RUN, &/or Forgive me.

Thank goodness for SPAM, yeah Mike!

Balladeer

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16 posted 2010-10-02 08:23 PM

.
TO THE RESCUE!!!

Sunshine

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17 posted 2010-10-03 11:20 AM

Regina...

talk about a "duh" moment for me. Thanks for going back through the archives...

and for being such a wonderful woman!

Huan Yi
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18 posted 2010-10-21 01:31 AM

.

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

“Two Hundred Years Together" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

.

LeeJ
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since 2003-06-19

Posts 13296

19 posted 2011-01-07 07:16 PM

I agree totally with Regina and Sunshine
and believe people also ban books out of sheer fear...fear makes people do the darnest things...but to ban anything is so wrong...and one sided not to mention against our constitution...you may not like a book, however, that's your opionion, which shouldn't be forced on others...

You rock Regina...thank you

Essorant
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20 posted 2011-01-08 11:41 AM

I think the fact we need to read about these bans in an article to know they even exist/existed, proves that they aren't all that harsh or far-reaching as "bans". I wouldn't ban them, and would argue against banning them, but as long as they are still available at other institutions, at libraries, at book-stores, etc, I don't think it is that big a deal if a particular institution bans particular books from its locations or activities.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (01-09-2011 12:21 AM).]

serenity blaze
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21 posted 2011-01-08 08:31 PM

I apologize in advance, I didn't really read much on this post--I was busy buying up copies of Huckleberry Finn to sell on the blackmarket.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING opens a door for discussion, especially "abridged" editions of classics.

Good to see ya'll all feisty and shtuff though.

mikeandrew
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since 2010-11-18

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22 posted 2011-01-16 10:48 AM

If god did not ban us from the knowledge of good and evil, then who are we to ban a book.

HopelessRomantic101
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23 posted 2011-02-09 09:27 PM

I'm not Christian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but God DID ban us from good and evil as well as knowledge. 'Twas Man's disobedience that led to the fall of Eden. Regardless, books should not be banned. Banning books, to me, is like defying the right to free speech. As a high-school student, I'd like to read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography (although inappropriate, it does contain insights that cannot be otherwise gleaned).

Love is the one true emotion. It cannot be hidden--the eyes will betray the thoughts.

Ringo

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24 posted 2011-02-10 04:32 PM

As long as there is the printed word (in whatever form it takes) or some form of ANYTHING that is not the bible, there are going to be people banning them as "good Christians" must do. As long as there are people who have opposing thoughts, there will be people who feel something is inappropriate and that it should be banned. It is their job to ensure that you do your duty as a parent and forbid your children to read these books.. after all, you might not do so, and subject them to immoral and illegal practices like the bad parent that you are.

Of course, there are a few things that these people don't want you to think about:

1) "So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."
Joshua 10:40-41

2)But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
Genesis 19: 3-8

3) Then Saul said, “Thus shall you say to David, ‘The king desires no bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged of the king’s enemies.’” Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king’s son-in-law. Before the time had expired, David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full number to the king, that he might become the king’s son-in-law.
1 Samuel 18:25-27

4) Sura 22-9: “As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.”
Sura 22-9 (Koran)

I could go on; however, you get the idea.
These are religious texts that most of the people who are banning these books would freely invite you to read. It is best to take these lists with... well a grain of salt is too much, I would guess.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE

Stephanos

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25 posted 2011-04-13 10:53 PM

Hopeless Romantic:

quote:
I'm not Christian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but God DID ban us from good and evil as well as knowledge. 'Twas Man's disobedience that led to the fall of Eden.

Not quite right... recall the text of Genesis:

"The knowledge of good and evil"

Knowledge is qualified here as a peculiar kind of knowledge, not knowledge in general. God was and is not an advocate of human ignorance. Regardless of what should or shouldn't be banned, everyone justifies God in this regard, I suspect. We just draw the lines in different places, but there are ideas we would all deem worthy of suppression (or if not, vigorous refutation).

Stephen

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