»
Discussion
»
Philosophy 101
»
Contemporary Poets
| Philosophy 101 |
|
Contemporary Poets |
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Writing in meter with rhyme - recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks! |
||
| © Copyright 2010 JenniferMaxwell - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Actually, there aren't a lot of contemporary poets that deal with precise meter and rhyme. It is not the form that sells today and, although many may write it, you won't see a lot of it published or known. (Random House confirmed this fact to me personally!) Probably the best well-known American poet of today that deals with meter and rhyme is Maya Angelou. Her meter is often sporatic but, due to her defense, one can tell that she writes for mainly performance and, when one recites, it is much easier to cover up the meter glitches. Shel Silverstein is another. I think the last great poet that exercised wonderful meter and rhyme the majority of the time was Banjo Paterson. He was a master of his trade. The standard to be measured by, of course, will always be Poe.  |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks very much Balladeer. As luck would have it, I picked up a second hand four volume gift collection by Angelou at a tag sale not too long ago. Haven’t had a chance to get into it, but now I will.Found works by Paterson at Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a118 and also by Poe: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a481 |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
How up to date do you want to get? There is a good literature of modern poets writing in meter and rhyme. I'd suggest Donald Justice, who died a few years back. He has a short piece on von Stauffenberg that is a very fine poem in his last book. You might try some of John Koethke, who did a nice translation of a selection from the Greek Anthology a little while back. Ron Wallace has been writing very fine sonnets for almost forty years, and his mastery of metrics is good. Last I heard he ran the writing program at University of Wisconsin. One of the ways to check on this sort of stuff is to read a few of the good poetry magazines on a regular basis. Poetry for example, if read on a semi regular basis, will show the regular appearance of formal work by talented modern poets, as will The New Yorker and many of the other high-test markets. Mike is right when it comes to the high end book publishers, I think, but not entirely anymore, at least as much as he would have been 20 years or so ago. What people read are poems that they love, and that's a difficult sort of thing to predict. I'm very fond of Billy Collins, these days, who can do formal metrics and rhyme when he wants to, but simply doesn't want to very much. Perhaps you know his stuff. And then there are the killer short lyrics by A.E. Houseman, most of them about 12 lines or so and written at the end of the 19th century. If you don't know those, your diet is lacking vitamins — three short books, absolutely perfect of their sort. He was a Greek scholar and a generally strange guy. How about those folks? If you don't know them already, why not given them a shot? BK |
||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
http://www.worldclasspoetryblog.com/why-rhyme-is-back-in/07/18/2008/ |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Yes, I think you will like Banjo. His most famous poem, The Man From Snowy River, was made into a very popular movie. http://www.ausinternet.com/ettamogah/snowyriver.htm I would like to believe that rhyme is making a comeback. It would be nice to get back to a time when poets were known and admired by many people, not just other poets. Unfortunately, when rhyme was in it's swan song, being replaced by free verse, poetry became more of a closed society and the public was left out. It would be nice to bring them back in. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
I liked the exchange that grinch posted, though I think that the attempt to connect it with philosophy doesn't hold much water. Not to say that philosophy isn't interesting, simply to say that poets are more interested on the whole, by other poets than by philosophers, at least when it comes time to put pen and paper together. My notion is much the same as the unnamed poet who write the short essay that grinch quotes, that is, that you can take a shot at a sestina, a sonnet or a free verse piece on any given day, depending on what the particular piece seems to need. Forcing yourself into a box before having some sense of the poem has always seemed to be a way of shutting off certain poetic directions. That may be a help for you in your writing. For me, I need every break I can get. I also like the list of more formal folk that Grinch's author offers. Richard Wilbur is another of my American Favorites. Not too many people talk about John Berryman these days, though he is spectacular if somewhat difficult at times. One of his early Dream Songs begins "Life, Friends, is boring." He is a lesson in advanced metrics, and is one of the most amazing religious poets I've ever read, especially his 11 Addresses to The Lord. I've always found religious poetry difficult, for the most part, and often maudlin in the extreme, but this series in particular makes my hair stand up. Some of his earlier poems are more standard in their metrics and rhyme, and they're to be found in his Collected Poems(1937-1971). His metrics are up to the standard of Milton and Shakespeare's in that early stuff, and as he gets older, he experiments with variations, but he's always clear exactly what he's doing. He's got a series of sonnets that I suspect he meant to stand against the Shakespearian sonnets, and their metric is fully as compacted and jammed as the 16th century models. I'm taking up other people's space here. I'll shut up now. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks so much for all the recommendations. I’ve just about worn out my Wright and Wilbur collections, the pages have been thumbed back to pulp. Been looking for something of the same quality, contemporary and metrical to add to my library. My budget is very limited, didn’t want to make a huge mistake. Thanks again, and if you should think of something else just pop back to this thread. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for good reads. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Oops forgot. Read some of the Paterson's, Balladeer. One I liked a lot was "In the Droving Days" Not sure if this link will take you to that particular poem, but it should be close. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/213/213-h/213-h.htm#2H_4_0023 |
||
|
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Well, Jennifer, your question answered some for me, and I'm grateful for the knowing now of The Man from Snowy River as I did not know that the movie had its beginnings as a poem...thanks! While not a published metered writer [to my knowledge], one poet you might enjoy is Dave Smith. He is one that I enjoy not only reading, but hearing. He appeared at our Poetry Month showing in 2001...his voice is wonderful...his poetry everyday spectacular. http://wiredforbooks.org/davesmith/ You might enjoy him. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
He wrote another one you may be familiar with, Sunshine.....Waltzing Matilda. That was a good one, Jennifer. He also had a clever wit when it came to political jibes, such as... http://www.bushverse.com/paterson/daceymule.htm I just like his style |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Poets at this site don't count? I think Balladeer writes some very good meter and rhyme. Grinch's poetry has some great examples too. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
But of course, Ess, and you've written some very lovely verse yourself. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Sunshine is right about Dave Smith, though not he's not a formalist. You might try some of the early David St. John, also not formal but mind bending. Try Hush if you can get it. Some of his stuff from his first few books will bring you to tears. Same sort of thing, David Bottoms, Shooting Rats in The Bibb County Dump. For Formalist stuff, Donald Justice, try Collected Poems, the most recent version. Almost half of them are formal, and he is a poet's poet. If you haven't read Elizabeth Bishop collected Questions of Travel I believe the name is, you owe it to yourself. If you have access to a good library, try taking a couple of these out and going through them; make your own decisions as to which ones draw you most strongly. The one you need right now will probably taste better than you can imagine. Follow those literary taste buds. There's a Justice poem called "The Thin Man" with a line in it that goes something like I indulge in rich refusals. Justice himself was almost skeletally thin, about six feet tall, and was a demonic volleyball player. He had to wrap both shins heavily in ace bandages before he played because he had scars running their entire lengths. He'd had to spend years at a time in bed as a boy and had painful operations on the infected bone marrow there. He was fortunate to survive. He loved to drink gin over ice and we used to go dancing with the woman I was living with at that time at a country western bar. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Peeked inside Justice's Collected at Amazon. I think that could be it. Not available at my local library, but I can get it ILL. Thanks Bob! And thanks for mentioning Hersey's "The Wall". Shortly before you mentioned it I had just finished reading his "Hiroshima" for the second time. Two must haves to be read again and again. I have a couple by Bishop, found them a bit of a challenge when I read them several years ago, but now my ear is craving something different, I'll give them another try. Thanks again. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
David St. John's "Iris" http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15375 |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I just ordered a used copy of HUSH from Amazon - only $2.00!  |
||
Alison
since 2008-01-27
Posts 9318Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy! |
Jennifer, One of my favorite poems is "Harlem" by Walter Dean Myers. It doesn't rhyme but it has meter. Check it out - http://faculty.lagcc.cuny.edu/eiannotti/harlem/harlem.htm A |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks so much, Alison - a powerful poem, a moving weave of history and dreams. Anyone else have a favorite poet or poem? |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
A few more: Anthony Hecht: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=179058 John Berryman: This is the title poem of the 11 poem series: http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/index.php?date=2001/09/19 Louis Simpson: He has writen fine, fine poems in both free and formal verse. This one is writen like a Scottish border ballad. Simpson was there. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=171538 |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks Bob, wonderful offerings. Those two sites are marvelous, offering so much good reading for free. Lunch Poems - For those like me who live in the boonies and rarely if ever have the opportunity to hear a major poet read, you might like to take a look at Lunch Poems. Google, poke around and I think you’ll find something to suit your taste. From the Berkeley series, a reading by a poet I greatly admire, Eavan Boland: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?seriesid=015b1069-9845-4a1b-ac96-5a1ecbd27760 |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
A partial listing of readings from the Berkeley series: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/events.php?group=Lunch+Poems |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Do you know Frank O'Hara? The reason I ask is that the title of one of his books is called Lunch Poems, and he's really very good. He died young, run over by a golf cart, I think, on Fire Island. He's got such a casual, chatty and conversational voice and he manages to do such interesting things with it. It's illusory, because it sounds so casual, and yet there's not a wasted word there. Very artful indeed. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Havent read much by O'Hara, but here's one I like: My Heart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9TRUARUvTI&feature=related |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Anyone a Wallace Stevens fan? I keep going back to his work even though it's so far over my head, like a distant star you catch only a glimpse of out of the corner of your eye. My favorite: Sunday Morning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkQjosxv-lc |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
A. E. Stallings (personal favorite). If you haven't read her stuff yet . . . why haven't you read her stuff yet? RS Gwyn Timothy Steele Tom Disch Annie Finch Dana Goia Two anthologies: Rebel Angels A Formal Feeling Comes |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Can't thank you enough Brad. Your post freed me from the Alley. Now my multi-tasking efforts will be focused on something worthwhile - poetry rather than (yuck, spit) politics. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Will whoever is forcing Jennifer to continue posting in the Alley please stop? She doesn't like it |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Thanks Balladeer!  |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Read a few by Finch and Goia, Brad, and like them a lot. Will check out the rest a little later. Thanks again! |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Checked out Rebel Angels, Brad. Though I only seached a few pages, can't say I was overly impressed. A Formal Feeling looked much better to me. Then again, what the heck do I know. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
( Brad, did you get tidings from Algonquin's Table? ) |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Jennifer, That's fine. Meter and rhyme don't determine quality: there's good and bad stuff anywhere you look. Ess, Got it. Just haven't had much time to play recently. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
New addition to my local library this week, American Hybrid. It’s a Norton anthology described as “A spirited anthology of Contemporary American poetry that focuses on the new poem –the hybrid– a synthesis of traditional and experimental styles.” Just skimming it now, looks very interesting. Edited by Cole Swensen and David St John. St John is one of Bob’s recommends. Anyone read it, Brad, Bob? |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
I don't know it. I'll have to look about a bit. |
||
|
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Haven't read a lot of it yet, Bob, but my impression is that it's for the more experienced poetry reader. About 2 out of every half dozen or so poems fly right by my ear. It's a stretch for me, but I'm really enjoying it. |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
