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Passions in Poetry

Martyrdom

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 10-17-2009 09:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

What are the critical differences
between the Christian and Moslem
concepts of  martyrdom?


.


Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


1 posted 10-18-2009 12:33 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I don't want to lump all Muslim belief on the subject into one basket, but If I can guess which Muslim theology you are referring to, I would reply that it is more agressive, related to "holy war" usually in a quite literal sense.  In contrast, the predominate view of Christian Martyrdom is patterned after Jesus Christ (in Kind) who condemned the swinging sword of his closest follower, and was more passive in the sense that it was wholly the misunderstanding of his adversaries, not a real threat issuing from himself toward them, that led to his murder.
  
You can probably derive the differences from that fact alone.

Stephen  
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 10-18-2009 02:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

I happened to be flipping through radio channels
looking for one that would wake me up in the morning
when I passed through a Christian station where the phrase
“Martyrs in Christ” was used.  This brought back a faint
memory of my Catholic youth when the phrase was
far more pervasive and seemed to have some sort of
elite status in the hierarchy of spiritual being.

There seemed a lot of examples where one got
oneself killed, but I don’t remember it involving
at the same time killing anyone else.

I could be wrong . . .

.

Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


3 posted 10-18-2009 11:51 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521615518

Dear Huan Yi,

           From a brief examination of some of the literature, the above book is apparently a thoughtful examination of the topic.  There may be a generalized thought among muslims that the Christian type of martyrdom is in some fashion humiliating and a form of weakness, hence evidence in some way the the christian claims for the status of Jesus may be mistaken.  I may have gotten this wrong, so I urge you to check further.  The Shi'ia have a history of martyrdom that may be somewhat similar in some ways to the Christian tradition because many of the early Shi'ia were murdered for the faith.  There appears to be some sort of humiliation and anger attached to this, though, again, my understanding is superficial and I may well have this wrong.

     The nature and meaning of the martyrdom tradition has apparently changed historically.  The current meaning of martyrdom as it attaches to suicide may be reasonably recent, and there seem to be older meanings that I do not understand attached.

     I'm trying to offer a quick scan of some of the basic research because I think it's an interesting subject myself, and one which Islam and Christianity and — for that matter — Judaism seem to have a reasonable amount of  mutual misunderstanding sloshing about for reasons that seem all too self evident.

     What's your impression on the matter?
Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
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4 posted 10-19-2009 09:19 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

The perception of the death of Christ as weakness is not original to Islamic teaching ... it is described abundantly in the gospel records themselves, from Peter's attempt to rebuke Jesus to the derisive remarks of those who saw him at the crucifixion.  Still, because of the respective beginnings of each of these religions, the contrast between their views of martyrdom should be striking.


Stephen  
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


5 posted 10-20-2009 12:44 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



    
Dear Stephen,

          I don't agree with the view I reported, nor do I know how widespread it is in Moslem dogma or theology.  I'm simply reporting the result of a (very) quick internet scan.

BK

 
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