Statesboro, GA, USA
If the future can be known it cannot be changed.
If God has known a future that will indeed happen (indeed has happened from his perspective being transcendent of time), then why the need to change it? If you say its certainty rules out God's freedom to choose, then certainty rules out your freedom to choose as well, whether you know it or not. You can't have it both ways. Your future also is as certain as if it had already happened regardless of your psychological state. Knowledge definitely complicates the issue Grinch, but it is merely one more layer to the paradox that already exists for you as well ... not just concerning God.
f you or any other entity has the omniscience to know what you have for lunch tomorrow then thatís what youíll have for lunch tomorrow, you canít use your free will to change your mind and still claim omniscience.
Yes, its quite pardoxical isn't it? But the fact remains that if you've chosen spaghetti, and therefore know what you'll be eating for lunch, it doesn't therefore follow that you are not free to do otherwise. Can one make a definite decision and still be free? If not, you've destroyed the notion of free will completely, and made it to mean the opposite of what it is ... the ability to choose.
If the entity could interact in this universe the entity would also require omniscience in her own universe - to know her own future actions and interactions in this universe - and if she knows her own future, as I pointed out above, the future is pre-determined and she loses free will.
Again, unless you believe that your own decisions imply absence of freedom, then you have no argument here beyond sophistry ... since choosing is the essence of free will. Are you arguing for eternal indecision as the essence of free will?
Omnipotence - the ability to do anything requires free will.
If that's the case Grinch, then omnipotence may have the freedom to be somehow free and not free at the same time. There's definitely something like this going on when one considers the incarnation, and theories of middle knowledge (Molinism). Of course our speculation is "as in a glass darkly" and always borders on the ridiculous. But my guess is that it is kind of a larger version of your own paradoxical freedom in a universe in which your future is certain whether you know it or not. In discrediting omnipotence with the playful pardoxes of free will, you are discrediting your own ... or do you admit you are a determinist?
You canít, but then again I never said you could. In a cause and effect universe true free will doesnít exist
Ah. There we have it. No need to discuss this anymore with you Grinch. You are only believing and advocating your view because you are absolutely and slavishly bound to believe it by the physical properties of your own cerebral cortex and the impersonal events which gave rise to your present configuration of atoms. March on automaton. I'm content for now, having demonstrated that by insisting that divine pardox is unworthy to accept in view of difficulties, you've theoretically deconstructed your own humanity, and undermined human knowledge, reason, and choice.
ou were claiming historical fact Stephen - without proof history is generally regarded as a non scientific theory, a story or a myth.
There is proof for Biblical History Grinch. It may be denied nonetheless. There are those who deny the Holocaust. There is such a thing as revisionist history. But the point I was trying to make is that Historians will unanimously say that empirical proof is not part and parcel of their field.