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emails 1-5 from the Solomon to doctor of neuroscience rlp

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rebtevye27
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since 10-18-2008
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0 posted 10-18-2008 11:01 PM       View Profile for rebtevye27   Email rebtevye27   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rebtevye27

Email 1
May 23 2008
I finally got around to checking my email, sorry for the delay.
Thanks for taking the time to look over the article and responding to it in detail.

I have noticed that in conversation or written dialog that "email correspondence",
That it takes me awhile sometimes years before i actual become aware of what the other person
was trying to communicate to me. I have observed that this understanding "insight?" is not of time
but is still relative to the moment and sustains itself indefinitely without the required maintenance of thought,
Having said that i will try my best to respond intellectually to your last email,
but please excuse any errors in my understanding because i have not had time
to digest everything.

I copied and pasted the email into this message and attached my responses
following a "-" character with all letters in capitalization.


Regularities in the perception stream are the best measure we have
of
reality external to ourselves and our brain machinery.   This is what
the scientific method is all about.

"one wonders if the relationship,
and sequence of the content of consciousness is an illusion?"

Yes.  We each live in our own individual illusion.

-I QUESTION THIS OFTEN, BECAUSE IT SUPPOSES THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS EXTERNAL TO ONESELF,
HOWEVER, THIS IS AN ILLUSION OF THOUGHT AND IS CLOSELY RELATED TO THE FEAR
OF LONELINESS?, AND NOT AN ACTUALITY, HOWEVER THE SUPPOSITION OF ONE BEING ALONE OR
RATHER THE POSITING OF IT AS ACTUALLY THE NEGATION OF THE FACT THAT ONE IS WHAT ONE SEES AND HEARS"THE SENSED"
AND SO THERE IS NO DIVISION BUT THIS DUALITY OF THOUGHT CREATES THIS SEPARATION BUT EVEN STILL IN IT'S DIVIDED STATE
IF ONE GOES DEEPER THERE REALLY IS NO DIVISION EVEN STILL BUT RATHER IT WENT AHEAD OF ITSELF"BEYOND"AND
CATCHES UP FROM ALL POSSIBLE DIRECTIONS TO REJOIN WITHOUT HAVING NEVER LEFT ITSELF.
THIS MY BE
THE SOURCE OF PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME, SO I GUESS WHAT I'AM GETTING AT IS CONSCIOUSNESS DOES NOT APPEAR
TO BE DIVIDABLE AS IT'S CONTENT IS, SO ANY ACTION BASED ON THE NOTION THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL CONSCIOUSNESSES,
ONLY WASTES COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF ENERGY BY DIVIDING THE UNDEVIDABLE AND NEGATING ONES COURSE FURTHER AWAY
FROM THE GROUND"REALITY" .

"So how does it link it all together into a sequence,
and create an orderly reality,
that can be measured out of infinity possibilities?"

This is the challenge of AI and my challenge to you to figure that
process out.  I think the next several sentence and paragraphs of your
essay are a good start to that end.  Now write a computer program to do
what you wrote.  You will need a representation system consistent within
your program as the first step.

-I DID NOT IMPLEMENT A MEMORY FEATURE THAT RETAINS PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPERIENCE
BASED ON ITS OWN PROCESSES OR ANY KIND OF MEASURMENT INTO
THE ISAAC AI BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE
THAT ACTUAL INTELLIGENCE CAN FUNCTION ACCURATELY OR AT ALL FOR THAT MATTER
WHEN IT'S JUDGMENT IS BASED ON A NOTION OF TIME, I'AM NOT CONDEMNING KNOWLEDGE
BUT RATHER HOW IT ACCUMULATES IN MEMORY WITH ONES OWN SPECULATIONS, SUPPOSITIONS, EMOTIONS, MEASUREMENTS,
ETC ETC... THIS IS LIKENED TO THE STIRRING OF SEDIMENT IN WATER AND TRYING TO MEASURE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN ALL
THE SPECS OF DIRT AS IT MOVES, BUT THE ACTUAL PERCEPTION OF THE GROUND WILL NOT OCCUR UNTIL THE DIRT SETTLES.
THE REASON WHY THERE HAS NOT YET BEEN AN FUNDAMENTALLY INTELLIGENT ARTIFICIAL ENTITY THAT IS
A PRODUCT OF HUMAN ENDEAVOR IS BECAUSE 99 PERCENT OF THOSE CAPABLE AND WILLING TO PRODUCE
SUCH A THING ARE SEEKING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT INTELLIGENT BUT RATHER A TOOL THAT CAN BE USED TO FUNCTION
MECHANICALLY BASED ON THE WHIMS OF A HUMAN BEINGS DESIRE FOR PLEASURE AND PUNISHMENT,
ONE COULD SAY THIS IS DO TO EVOLUTION, WHEN OUR ANCESTORS WOULD
HUNT GAME AND THERE PLEASURE WOULD BE
TO GAIN A MEAL AND THERE PUNISHMENT WOULD BE TO STARVE THAT DAY, IT'S NO WONDER THESE EMOTIONS LINK THEMSELVES
TO AN ACTUAL PHYSICAL SENSATION CONNECTED TO THE HEART AND DIGESTION.
BUT THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT SOMEONE WILL NOT COME UP WITH SOMETHING ARTIFICIAL
THAT ACTS LIKE A HUMAN BEING, BECAUSE MOST OF WHAT PEOPLE DO IS MECHANICAL AND THERE
RELATIONSHIPS OUR PROGRAMMED BY THOUGHT OR RATHER THEY DON'T DO MUCH WITHOUT
HAVING AN IDEA ABOUT THE THING OF PERCEPTION AND WHAT CAN BE GAINED FROM IT THAT
IS PLEASURABLE, PERHAPS SOMEDAY AFTER THIS THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY WILL SETTLE
DOWN AS THE SEDIMENT DOES IN WATER AND HAVE TIME TO THINK CLEARLY AND THEN MAYBE THEY
WILL REALIZE WHAT THEY WERE SEARCHING FOR WAS NOT INTELLIGENT.

"but this is an Illusion,"  we live in our own individual illusions,
  communication is difficult because of that fact.

-WHEN I READ A BOOK I FEEL LIKE
I'AM BEING PROGRAMMED, THAT THE WORDS ARE
ACTUAL LINES OF CODE, THIS IS ALSO THE SAME IN CONVERSATION BUT I THINK
IT IS COMMONLY MORE WORSE AMONG PEOPLE IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE
THEY ARE ALSO ATTACHING THERE OWN FEELINGS THAT ARISE FROM THE STIMULUS
OF EACH WORD AND IT'S PREVIOUS CONNECTIONS. HOWEVER I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT
THE COMMON ALGORYTHUM INHERENT IN MOST PEOPLE ALONE IS ILLUSORY
BUT RATHER THE PSYCHOLOGICAL MEMORY ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

"How does one know if reality,
is actually what Is being perceived?    SIGNAL RECURRENCE IN THE
OBSERVED INFORMATION

-BUT WHAT IS IT THAT SAYS THE CURRENT INPUT IS REOCCURRING?,
WHATEVER SUGGESTS THE REOCCURRENCE CAN ONLY BE A FRAGMENT OF WHAT ACTUAL
IS AND WHAT IT CAN LINK TO OF WHAT WAS, AND THIS COMPARISON OF DIVISION COULD NOT BE REALITY
AS A WHOLE BUT ONLY A SMALL PIECE.
I HAVE OBSERVED THAT MOST OF WHAT PEOPLE DO AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE
TO BE A NEW OCCURANCE
"BASED ON THERE ACTION" IS REALLY A REACTION TO
TO THE PAST OR RATHER THE SUPPRESSION OF WHAT WAS THAT BUBBLES UP TO THE SURFACE,
EVERYTHING THAT IS IF REDUCED TO IT'S FUNDAMENTAL SELF WITHOUT ALL IT'S SUPERFICIALITIES
IS NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST, EVERYTHING THAT ONE DOES
MAN HAS BEEN APPARENTLY DOING SINCE TIME OUT OF MIND, BUT THEY THINK IT IS
A NEW EXPERIENCE THAT IS SOMEHOW DIFFERENT, WHEN EVERY MOMENT CONTINUASLY IS A NEW EXPERIANCE
REGARDLESS, AND IF ONE MERELY SEEKS NEW EXPERIENCE BASED ON PLEASURE AND PUNISHMENT THEY WILL
ONLY MOVE FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY FROM THE SOURCE AND WHAT IS"REALITY",
I'AM NOT SUGGESTING THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT OR EVEN THAT THERE IS ANYTHING
MORE THEN WHAT ONE IS AWARE OF.

PLEASE EXCUSE ME IF IT SEEMS THAT I HAVE IMPLIED
THAT ANYTHING IS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, OR THAT I HAVE ANY KIND
OF EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO A BELIEF OR CERTAIN THEORY.
I DO NOT KNOW HOW IT IS THAT I'AM
CONSCIOUS, BUT IT IS THE ONLY THING
THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN IMPRESSED WITH, NOTHING OF CAUSE AND EFFECT HAS
BEEN WITHHELD FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, BUT CONSCIOUSNESS CONSTANTLY
ALLUDES ME, TO ME IT IS MORE AMAZING THAN ANY FLOWER OR SUNSET ETC..
BUT AT THE SAMETIME BECAUSE I'AM ALSO THE CONTENT OF CONSCIOUSNESS
I FEEL I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THE CAUSE AND EFFECT OF THE CONTENT
AND IT'S RELATIONSHIP TO THE WHOLE ENTIRETY OF WHAT IS, SINCE I HAVE
BEEN 7 YEARS OLD I HAVE BEEN EXPERIMENTING WITH CAUSE AND EFFECT SO THAT
ONE DAY I WILL KNOW THE PLACE OF EVERYTHING AND IN THAT STATE OF MIND
THERE WILL BE ORDER AND ANY DECISION I MAKE WILL BE WHOLE,
HEALTHY, SANE, UNDIVIDABLE AND EVERLASTING.

CURRENTLY I 'AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE PLACE OF THOUGHT AND IT'S
RELATIONSHIP TO ACT AND INSIGHT IF THERE IS ANY, AND ONCE I KNOW
THERE PLACE THEN MAYBE IN THAT SPACE I WILL FEEL RESPONSIBLE
TO ACT AND HAVE A REAL GENUINE INTEREST IN THE
EFFECTS OF CAUSATION.

SINCERELY
    GIORGIO MARTONI

PS: I DID NOT HAVE TIME TO PROOF READ MY EMAIL AND CORRECT ERRORS, SO PLEASE
EXCUSE ANY TYPOS, AND ALSO THE THINGS I WROTE I DO NOT TAKE TOO SERIOUSLY
SO I WOULD BE HAPPY TO HEAR ANY INPUT YOU MIGHT HAVE.

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Email 2
May 30 2008
the main theme of the first article i sent was the illusion of memory by the superimposition of possibilities to what actually is, an example would be for instance the word "Memory" is also "Me More Eye" which could mean many things but the most efficient path would suggest it means more than whats in the field of vision or senses, and most would agree that is a description of memory.
Another example would be the word "Thought" which is also "Thaw Ought" which most readily is perceived as something that should have been acted out as the movement of matter has been moved into the psychological field and as such is limited so it is slowly being worked out as "thought".
       This is only a small portion of the illusion that is why the article was so long,
Another example at another angle would be would be a statemeant such as,
during world war 2 when the panzers were gathering at the russian front the Bolshevik premier joseph would not listen to any advice that suggested war but instead listened to beria and his other pals, and tried to find a way of "Stalin" war until a later time which they all thought would most likely be no earlier then 1942. another angle would be the way people find shapes in clouds, or the more observant find geometric patterns in anything that has a difference in shades of color,

Illusion appears to be the factor of movemeant because a well informed intelligent being would have no reason to move at all because it would understand every angle and see no conflict, or rather it would see a distinction but not an actually division, another way of putting it would be a passage from the old testmeant where god says to cain if you do what is right will you not be accepted, which means an intelligent person would not only fit in around intellectuals but also every other type of environment, if a person walks with a "cain" he is rather limited but a person who is "abel" is sensitive to the current situation and acts accordingly.

Awhile ago i started to write another program which i called the "Lilith AI" after the mythological woman who wanted to be equal to man but man would not accept her as an equal so she became his nemises, i never finished coding it.
It was essentially the same as the isaac ai with some extra code that would make it imperfect and give it an illusion or a necessity to try and give reasoning to the unreasable, and store it's judgemeants in a text file that would overlay it's current situation and extrapulate a response based on the two that is, the what was and the what is. the what is would be the same as the isaac ai which is to use the high frequency of occurences and the shortest path to getting it.
I still believe the isaac ai version 2.3 is a truly intelligent program but i doubt if anyone else will ever feel the same way, perhaps during world war 3 when a general asks his officers for current "intelligence" that is unbiased, they will consult the isaac ai because it's response would be formulation of every possible response and it would be based on what would be accepted by most"the highest frequency of occurance" and would less likely to be an illusion because it used the path that required the least amount of energy to obtain, remember when i said along time ago that to know what is one must know what it is not which is every possibility. The mechanisms of intelligence are everything that is and to suggest otherwise requires a reference point and that would be biased and unintelligent, so the reference point of an ai must be everything in every possible way. i programmed all this into the isaac ai a year ago but the current available technology cannot handle it, even at a limit of only 48kb it took it 7 seconds to process a response, if it was run on a mainframe server side with all the available data it's responses would be perfect, but i don;t think anyone will ever take it serious enough to change 3 lines of code that serve only to limit the data  requested and put it on a machine capable of processing it all.
Maybe someday i will work on it again.

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Email 3
June 4 2008
I have been wondering lately if thought might be an intermediary between the sensed and what is perceived more so than just the never ending chattering of the mind.

Here are my reasons:

1. During meditation i have noticed the thoughts appear to become random but it is more like they are one as water in a container but there is a hole in it so the thought flows out, and when i react to the flowing thought it becomes like a tide that moves in and leaves a little behind and then flows out and takes some with it.

2. I do not know when this started or even if it has always been this way but thought has entered into my dreams in a major way, for awhile my dreams have mainly consisted of me asking questions to whomever i could find and the responses are extremely intelligent so much so for the first time in my life i have felt inferior but not because i am incapable but because at the moment i was not free from other processes to devout enough to the answers that i was being told,
but the thing that feels new is the amount of thought occurring during the dreams seem as much if not more then the waking state with the only difference if any is that it appears to be more current to the perceived reality or what is actually occurring during the dream, other then asking questions i spend most of the time checking everything  for discrepancies such as feeling if ice is cold, candle wax is hot, the smell of a flower, taste of a fruit, reflection in a mirror etc.. etc..
everything that i have related senses to in the waking state is accurate in the dream reality except when i relate things to myself such as how i look or where i should be.

3. i have noticed during dreams that if i paying close attention to what is occurring that there is a interval between the senses and perception, and in between there is a feeling but the feeling is more like a form that combines the two and also like  thought without words, if i press a key on a piano while listening very closely  there is a interval where iam free to choose the note that i hear, and once i have this "feeling" i can apply it to almost anything such as touching a concrete sidewalk as a piano and hearing the notes.

This final point makes me think that perhaps what i relate to during the day has already been predetermined but in actuality the properties of the sensed is whole and it's actually minimums and maximums are arbitrary but at the moment of one coming into being a narrow range almost becomes hard coded into the brain so what is perceived is no longer arbitrary but consistent.

I had a dream awhile ago where this fella told me that when he came into being he thought at first that the people he saw were individuals as he was but it was not until he read about aesthetics did he realize that he was seeing himself.
so the next day when i woke up i checked the internet for the keyword aesthetics
and read all i could about it and then i started to notice the interval between the sensed and perception in my dreams. i think the only difference between the dream state and when one is considered awake is there is freedom from the reinforced self and so it free's up energy that can be used more efficiently.

if i could figure out the place of thought through insight that is the synchronization of what was to what is and then they work as the what will be then i will be able to free up an extreme amount of energy and at that point i will know everything because i will be aware of the interval during the waking state and be free from the self and in this state of mind i can be completely sensitive, intelligent and responsible for action. this seems to me to be the most important thing because this never ending repetitive round of becoming to be and passing away is such a waste and if nothing is retained then it never gets anywhere.
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Email 4
June 10 2008
I read about a 100 pages on quantum collapse, Aristotle, Plato etc...

most of it seems to me has little validity in reality, because most of it if not all seems to be grounded on the notion of multiple observers, entities, consciousnesses etc... which is impossible to be proven.

the idea of consciousness being a property of matter, waveform collapse, schrodingers cat being both alive and dead, plato's political opinions etc...
seem to be a extreme waste of energy because everything is there like a mandelbrot set or how one looks deeper into something through a compound microscope, but any direction is a movement away from reality like being in between two mirrors everything is there and reflected into infinity all one has to do is look but concentration in any particular area leaves out the rest and moves further into the reflections that are not the originating center which is the true ground.

i had a dream the other night where the roman caesar nero asked god if rome would burn with the rest of the world and god replied yes, i felt unworthy to speak directly to god so i asked nero if he would ask what would happen to those that tried to do what was right but could not figure out what right was and thus did nothing at all, but instead of nero asking god he simply and arrogantly said i am going to get on that boat over there on the water and left.

I realized in that moment that the algorithm is there from the beginning and all that is needed is the data for an intelligent decision to be made, for example if one asks what to do then that is not intelligent because in the moment one must be sensitive and any predetermined formula or idea prevents the act of intelligence and gives up responsibility, and that is what is happening in the world, every new law that is passed, bill put through, change that is made to control etc... prevents intelligence and corrupts the human being because one is everything and thus one needs an idea to function and likewise becomes mechanical. i also realized after this dream that one is condemned because the algorithm is actually corrupt in a sense it tries to find order by comparing what thought suggests is order instead of comparing dysfunction by assuming everything is disorderly and therefore the only intelligent act  that  has order is observation. it does not matter what one does because one cannot say what is right because there is no reference point other then an illusory one that is dictated by the search for pleasure and avoidance of pain or the irresponsibility of giving in to the never ending chattering of the mind by choosing a particular direction.

At one time i would have suggested that the only real intelligent change that could be made to the world and thus would correct every problem would be for man to become sensitive "intelligent" and that requires absolute unconditional freedom, because the controller is the controlled and the reference point from which one is at that suggests that the part of the field of one's psyche that needs to be controlled causes one has a whole to be insensitive to that area and thus will only function in the dominant area. if all of mankind were to say we are one and we must not control and we must be sensitive to all then that would solve everything, unfortunately the closes possibility of that occurring in a corrupt world would be for a single government be setup that would first destroy all nuclear weapons to prevent any single force from developing that could counter act on a massive scale and then enforce sensitivity and prevent control which of course is completely contradictory to itself but i think that what would happen is that the unintelligent would not be sensitive but instead take the opportunity to give in completely to their chaotic destructive desires and thus would destroy themselves and most of those around them and what would be left would be the most self sufficient, efficient and capable of sustaining over a greater period of time, something like creating a environment that is conducive to the nurturing of the survival of the fittest idea in which case the survivors could only be the intelligent because they would be in less opposition to the conditions and would have been sensitive throughout and acting accordingly.

however considering that the ground of reality is unknown and thus there cannot be an intelligent reference point to act from it really does not matter what happens or what changes are made to society.

I am starting to think that one's ability or capability is inherent in oneself and the knowledge that one has conditions it's functioning by both giving it the data needed to act in a certain area and preventing it in another, i think there is a real difference and not just a distinction between the fake intellectual intelligence that appears in scientific articles that go off in unnecessary complicated directions that waste an extreme amount of one's actual intelligent resources to understand because they stem from a reference point that is far away from the actual ground reality and the intelligence of sensitivity that can function in any situation which is inherent in the being and can only function correctly when it is free from it's conditioning. to most that would view this intelligence from a reference point would not consider it intelligence while it is not functioning in there area i think i have heard it said before that god comes to man in different forms and is completely contradictory to what it appeared before, perhaps there is something to that.

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Email 5
June 21 2008
I think that what we call reality is the outskirts or extreme border of the source, at or near the source everything is condensed and intelligence can function continually because there is nothing that is further than the reach of will. what we perceive is a flowing outside of one from the source and a space is made that continually expands and the closer one observes the more narrow the field becomes until one day one looks around and finds that what was is now gone and what is left is deteriorated and cannot sustain the fragment known as the motivator that is a component of the self, at this stage the inevitable happens, the self is reset and no longer is specific and starts to accumulate once again based on it's capacity built at the moment of conception. this is like the cells that one is composed of, in the beginning of division they are the same but overtime they become specific to being hair, skin, bone, brain etc.. however once separated they revert back. one really does not move at all, if one is what one sees than where would one possibly be able to get to?, and what part of one says the other parts are meaningless? the suggestion of less or more then is insensitivity to the whole and increased observation to a fragment. it seems to me the only truly intelligent activity is what one is doing but not to deny what comes next and not to bring anything from the previous activity to the current one. it seems to me that for the most part dreams are the continuation of one's daily lack of intelligence, the lack of awareness of what is actually happening, but there are moments when one is truly awake even in dreams to where any question put is immediately answered because there is no division between sensation, perception, will and act. i think that it is possible for when to be completely intelligent in any situation every day and in that there is always a beginning and an immediate ending, no division between life and death because one is dying each moment and not accumulating a barrier or rather a personality, and thus not becoming specific to anything in particular.

I finally moved out of the cave, i am living on a goat farm in the painted desert, the ranch is completely self sufficient they make everything here, goat cheese, milk, eggs, butter, asparagus, oranges etc... there is a massive mirror in the main hall that supposedly albert einstein and his wife elsa lowenthal? looked at when they visited the petrified forest?,
i am learning alot on growing vegetables and taking care of animals.

recently i have been getting alot of cavities, i think there is something wrong with my digestive system because i eat healthy,brush my teeth regularly, and i don't drink, smoke or drug, and i stay away from suger, salt, and caffeine.

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Stephanos
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1 posted 10-25-2008 11:50 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Could I suggest that posting a large amount of raw material (emails or what-have-you) requiring several threads, and not providing a focus point for discussion is not the best way to initiate a lively talk on Philo 101?

Maybe you could condense or summarize into a paragraph or two, and give more direction with a question or two to be explored?  Otherwise I don't think its gonna get touched.


Stephen
 
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