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Passions in Poetry

Tossing the Pie (a little bit of fun, I hope)

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serenity blaze
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0 posted 07-28-2008 04:06 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Disclaimer: The following image is simply an image. It has no particular power over you. I am using it because I have found the study of Tarot useful in learning the language of symbolism. So don't be afraid of it, okay? Okay.




Using this drawing from the Rider-Waite deck of Tarot (Numbered 0 as well as 22, according to varying schools of thought), assign to the image aspects of the defintion of "self". For example, The Fool, himself, would that convey Freud's Super-ego, Ego, or Id? You can expand on this as one of my brilliant friends has done, and include outside influences, and also designate what the sun represents, as well as the precipice. (And don't forget his little dog, too!)

I'll add my own thoughts to it later.

(I tend to waffle on my opinion, and I ask the opinions of others quite often because I sometimes don't even have a clue as to what I think is right, until I see something that I believe is wrong.)

There's no right or wrong answers though. I didn't mean wrong in the preceding paragraph, more like, "out of step with my take on reality."

Have a little fun?
Stephanos
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1 posted 07-28-2008 06:51 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Karen,

I think the "fool" could be identified with the id more than the other freudian categories, since this represents the individual's most primal and untamed urges.  Freud also observed that it was this "untamed" subconscious that was the source of all human destruction and chaos in the world.  Freud was fundamentally pessimistic for this reason.

Of course, the ego could also be identified with the fool, since it is the mediator between the id and the superego, and has the responsibility of mastery over the dark and troubled subterranean waters.  

Similarly, in Judeo-Christian terms, the "fool" of Proverbs is also portrayed as one who has no self control over his lower nature.  Given over to unbridled urges he becomes subject to their bitter consequences, and the mockery of being called a "fool".  This easily ties into the concept of sin as well, and the need for redemption and mercy.


It is interesting how all of these different perspectives concur in many ways.  


Stephen        
Ron
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2 posted 07-28-2008 08:07 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

In my opinion? I would identify the Fool with Freud.
serenity blaze
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3 posted 07-28-2008 08:12 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

*laughing*

Touche'! But let's not spoil the fun, eh?

Sheesh!
Stephanos
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4 posted 07-28-2008 10:51 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Aw come on Ron, someone who has had such influence on our way of thinking (including your own) can't have been all that foolish.

Don't get me wrong, he was pretty far afield at times.

Stephen
rad802
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5 posted 08-22-2009 07:22 AM       View Profile for rad802   Email rad802   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit rad802's Home Page   View IP for rad802

It does not appear to me that a fool would be likely to pass on his genes to the next generation, however selfish behavior, or traits would be.
If human society were structured like ant society fools would very quickly be identified and eliminated.
I think being a fool is a juvinile trait that would be generally lost as the burden of responsibilities becomes heavier.
Those who retained these traits would be unable to contribute to their community but might be tolerated if they were entertaining enough, or loved enough.

A worthy legacy is the irrevocable consequence of dreaming.
Rick A. Delmonico
Huan Yi
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6 posted 08-25-2009 07:47 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Aw come on Ron, someone who has had such influence on our way of thinking (including your own) can't have been all that foolish."

Don't bet on it.
That goes for Jung as well.

.
Sunshine
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7 posted 08-25-2009 09:26 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I saw this a year ago, and wanted to answer a year ago...but was too wrapped up in myself at the moment [as in job, life, and job, life and work at life] to respond.

I see me.

Interestingly, however, I now also see my dog[s] biting at my heels...as I have had for the last 15 months two brother shitzus...and they love to try to bite at my heels.  I see myself as following not just the sun, but it's light toward where I might follow...even though from the card it will take me to my just reward...the water, and its depths.

So I must be careful, and not spontaneous. I must look ahead, not just "up" and not just behind me, no matter how hard the dog might bite.

If I am to delineate the ego, I would say it was the superego....because it usually doesn't care where it lands.

So, after a year's time of contemplation, where am I on your landscape?





P.S. I tried to give the name of dogs just right, but there was a curtain that came down when I did...heh. Ron has great curtains!


Kitherion
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8 posted 10-01-2009 02:06 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Hmmm...

The fool by nature of Tarot exemplifies a person who is inexperienced, a new beginning if you will. But to pin him down in terms of Freud - I believe that he represents Freuds ideal superego. I say the superego, as a fool to me will always attempt to do what he/she sees as superbly "right"(Freuds main concept regarding the superego was to add an absokute moral aspect to the personality) regardless of whether the action is correct or not. This I relate back to the sun as the typical Tarot fool looks upwards towards it (in my idea the sun represents the unattainable perfection that the super ego strives towards) and the cliff face being the Id - according to Freud the dangerous precipice that should never be allowed to directly  control our actions (the fall downwards being the most obvious symbol for me here, indicating the primal and amoral thoughts believed to dwell within the Id). And lastly, the little doggy (I've always loved the Ryder-Whyte interpretation... it's sooooo cute) being the ego - barking at his masters heels in order to tell him to look straight forward: not down because then he will miss out on the beauty that surrounds him, and not up because then he might stumble.

Um, yeah... that's about it

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

rwood
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9 posted 10-16-2009 11:06 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Tis Sigmund and his little dog Oedipus who's been neutered, hence the name. And he's in Id costume, for only the Id would dare been seen in broad daylight in that getup.

The precipice is symbolic of his "Thanatos"...Death.

Thanks for pickin' me brain and ticklin' me funny bone.
serenity blaze
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10 posted 10-17-2009 06:07 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

*wide smile*

So...an ego without an Id?

thanks reg.

y'made me smile.
 
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