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Passions in Poetry

Remembrance

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Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
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Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


0 posted 05-13-2008 01:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


Do you care if your name or lifedoings are wellremembered or not in times to come?

The Shadow in Blue
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since 05-18-2006
Posts 488
EL, Michigan


1 posted 05-13-2008 03:17 PM       View Profile for The Shadow in Blue   Email The Shadow in Blue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Shadow in Blue's Home Page   View IP for The Shadow in Blue

I'm a naturally modest and humbled person, so I'd have to say that no, it doesn't matter if my life's work is immortalized in the anals of history. I would love it, but as long as I have a life's work that is appreciated by the people I care,about and the community I live (yet more imporantly me) in for as short a time as it is than that's that. To me if you feel accomplished than you are accomplished, within reason. So in short my answer is a greyish no.

~Jill
oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


2 posted 05-13-2008 03:51 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

"The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones;"

Along those lines, I'm not too interested in being remembered.  Except, if I read the lines correctly, the context was sarcastic, not pontifical, and there is that modifier, "oft."  It leaves open the possibility that whatever "good" men do might also live after them.

From Plato through Jung we find the concept of the collective subconscience, and the related concepts surrounding architypes.

In this realm, everything that everyone does contributes over time to the collective, and archetypes -- the hero, the lover, the seeker, the saint, and the sinner evolve cross culturally.  Campbell also get into this very heavily.  The gist of his thought is expressed most succinctly in "The Hero With a Thousand Names."

The "hero" may best reflect the human essence, capable of both good and evil, warrior (who kills in defense of the collective) and sacrificial lamb (who dies or is killed for the good of the collective).  The "hero" as archetype may be profoundly real and powerful, but that does not need to mean that the "hero" is the most perfected of beings.

As a species, we are, I think, still a work in progress. We haveven't been around all that long, and neither our species nor
archetypes are yet cast in stone, or unmalleable neurons.

I think I'd rather be totally unremembered in terms of name or deeds, if somehow what ever "good things" that I and millions of others have done, work their way into the collective as part of a subconscious "knowing" that is not merely OK, but admirable and needful to "do good things."  This is doing good things on a human level, without invoking the archetype of the Saint and related metaphysics.

I'm neither a philosopher nor a deep believer in much of anything.  I do have underlying notion though, suggesting that there may be another bit of the collective at work:  "We're here to help each other out."

If my presence in life, and the presence of countless other's who seem to feel this way, contributes to a shift, or new possibility in archetype, a redefinition on a neural level of what constitutes a "hero," then life might have been worth something for all like minded souls.

Consciousness seems to be involved in yet another intricate process of evolution, and there is no shortage of contemporary and historical Avatars, teachers, thinkers, leaders, whose influence far outstrips the universal knowlege of their names or remembrance of their specific deeds.

I'd just like to contribute to that collective notion, that's it is "good" to act decently.  Jesus had a great handle on it.  "Love one another."  

As a species, we haven't quite caught up with the implication of that insight, or the similar insight of others, but, as a species, I think we're working on it.

As to my name, hey,

You can call me Ray,
or you can call me Jay,
or you can call me Johnson,
But you doesn't have to call me late for dinner.

The above being an old bit of vaudeville schtick, included because laughing is part of who I am, and I wouldn't mind a little more of that in the world either.

Life can be a feast, and we don't have to eat each other.

Best, Jimbeaux

oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


3 posted 05-13-2008 04:11 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Jill -- Actually, I think the post is closer to suggesting a greyish "yes," than a greyish "no." I'm just looking at the words in the post and the order in which the thoughts are presented.

There is, of course, nothing inherently "wrong" in a desire for recognition, or acknowledgement of our existsence from temporal or posthumous applause.

But, if one is grappling with the issue, and I think most writers do, it's useful to clarify one's desires, and then go for it, one way or the other.

Which leads to questions about "validation."

Tough stuff, no?  

Best, Jimbeaux  
Stephanos
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Statesboro, GA, USA


4 posted 05-13-2008 05:47 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

"Do not remember the sins of my youth,
nor my transgressions;
According to Your mercy remember me,
for Your goodness’ sake, O LORD"

(Psalm 25:7)
Stephanos
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5 posted 05-13-2008 05:52 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

"I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert... Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal these words appear:
My name is Ozymandius, King of Kings,
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

(Ozymandius, by P.B. Shelley)
Falling rain
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6 posted 05-13-2008 05:58 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

well yeah i would like to be.... But living in a small town.. its not that hard to be remembered.. one mess up and the whole town labals you as a "no good","rebal", "bad kid".. so its not as hard as you think..

~Zach~

"Fate leads the willing, and drags along the reluctant."

oceanvu2
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Santa Monica, California, USA


7 posted 05-13-2008 06:14 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Stephan -- Dead on.  It always amazes me how we can be such disparate people, yet agree on so much.

Best, Jimbeaux
oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


8 posted 05-13-2008 06:35 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Falling Rain:  It's too bad small towns don't have two recycling boxes, one for carboard, and one for ego.  Recycling both improves the environment.  

Does the statement "Get off it, and get on with it" make any sense yet?

Does an interest in spelling make any sense?

Look, I have to make an assumption about the youthfulness invloved in the post and the nature perceived to be part of small towns.  With luck, one either embraces it for what it is, or moves on.

Casting "blame" can be a deficiency.  Where one is has nothing to do with who one is.

Best, Jimbeaux  
Stephanos
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9 posted 05-13-2008 11:15 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Stephan -- Dead on.  It always amazes me how we can be such disparate people, yet agree on so much.


I had to laugh a little at this.  When I try to express my thoughts, I can't do it anywhere near as well as I wish.  But when I quote two other people from long ago, someone knows exactly what I mean.


lol


This place wouldn't be the same without you Jim,

And that's a compliment.

Stephen
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


10 posted 05-13-2008 11:24 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't think at all that greatness, name, public respect and honour are too transient to be great.  Life, love, learning, and anything else that is special, experience the same transience, but they  still have greatness the while they last.  So has the achievement of rememberance.  

It is disappointing to see the lack of ambition in poets today to do great and memorable things.  I think the greatness of poetry is more belittled when the builders accept the straw-house because they think life is too short to build a long-lasting temple, than from an inevitable wind of time blowing great and memorable works down.  When you build your works stronger, then they shall most likely last longer too.  And when you follow in the footprints of greatness, then the footprints shall likewise be more deeply and longlastingly imprinted.


oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


11 posted 05-14-2008 12:25 AM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Ess -- The question didn't ask if one would like one's poems to live on.  How are the reputations of poets and their works entertwined, and does it matter?

I won't get graphic, but you'd almost have to to tackle that one!

I tried to work out the etymylogical relationship between posterior and posterity, but couldn't get to the butt of the joke.

Best, Jimbeaux

Best, Jimbeaux  
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


12 posted 05-14-2008 01:02 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I would not restrict it just to one thing, because I think anything and everything we may possibly remember about a poet and his works contribute to the depth of our remembrance.  

When I said "name" I meant the word in a deeper sense, somewhat as the Hebrew word, shem [pronounced as "shame"] "name", that more literally means "breath" and implies "character, spirit".   The Hebrew word and sense for "name" even has more importance when we see it is related to the Hebrew word for "heaven" shamayim.  It is pleasant to think of a "name" in that sense.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (05-14-2008 11:33 AM).]

 
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