How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 "too bad ignorance isn't painful"
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


0 posted 04-19-2008 02:59 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"  

Cheerfully stealing this line from Susan Caldwell, and "Ignorance is Bliss" from George Orwell, I ask about the reverse: Isn't ignorance truly painful?

What are the personal and societal consequences of "ignorance?"

What's the difference between ignorance and "willful stupidity?"

There are things that we know.  There are things that we don't know, but can find out.  Then there are things that we don't even know we don't know.

If we don't know that there are things we don't even don't know that we don't know, is that "ignorance?"

Stuff like that.

Best, Jimbeaux


Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


1 posted 04-19-2008 04:29 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

Isn't ignorance truly painful?
Yes. Ignorance in not painful to oneself unless it got touched.

What are the personal and societal consequences of "ignorance?"
Disasters.

What's the difference between ignorance and "willful stupidity?"
Intention of learning

If we don't know that there are things we don't even don't know that we don't know, is that "ignorance?"
No. It is called stupidity. We know that there are many things we don't know and the more we learn the more we will find that we don't know.
  

[This message has been edited by Seoulair (04-19-2008 05:34 PM).]

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


2 posted 04-19-2008 04:38 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Um, just to address one point for now--the difference between ignorance and willful stupidity would be...akin, to taking the hand you just charred to a crisp, and sticking it in the fire AGAIN.

Hmm. That would also qualify as an example of Einstein's definition of insanity...

but lawd knows I still do it.

(Can I call it perseverence? That sounds so much better.) *chuckling*

dottie
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


3 posted 04-19-2008 06:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Religion has interesting ways to look at ignorance....

Ignorance
Ig"no*rance\, n. [F., fr. L. ignorantia.]

1. The condition of being ignorant; the want of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.

Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven. --Shak.

2. (Theol.) A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have. --Book of Common Prayer.

Invincible ignorance (Theol.), ignorance beyond the individual's control and for which, therefore, he is not responsible before God.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


4 posted 04-19-2008 06:50 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

quote:
Religion has interesting ways to look at ignorance....

Side tracked me. I googled "religion and ignorance" I got
Religion is ignorance.
where is Grinch?
Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


5 posted 04-19-2008 06:53 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

1) Humans are not omniscient.

2) There are those who think they are omniscient.

3) There are those who recognize they are not omiscient.

If you are not omniscient, then you suffer from ignorance.

As a general rule, I have found those in (2) suffer more from ignorance than those in (3).

There are any number of things I have no desire to know.  There are any number of things I have no need to know.

Ignorance is not painful nor bliss.

One could as equally say knowledge is painful and knowledge is bliss.

And I admit, I have no idea what I am talking about because I am ignorant.  But I'll live with my condition.

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


6 posted 04-19-2008 07:08 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The question needs to be refined a bit, I believe.  We seem to have vastly different attitudes about different kinds of ignorance, as a culture.

     Ignorance of the law is no excuse, is one phrase we may all hope not to hear in certain circumstances.

     You are ignorant.  Mostly this is an insult.

     Yet there are situations where ignorance may be debated.  The objective details may still fit the definition of ignorance, but  while some will say the thing is ignorance, others will fit to redefine it as determination or some other quality.

     In Vietnam, for example, was the call to "stay the course!" a matter of ignorance of the actual situation or a matter of determination to stand by an ally?

     In one of the creation stories, however, it is the wish to overcome a specific kind of ignorance—it appears to me— that causes the fall of man.  God apparently did not want man to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  I can't imagine that the next judge or traffic cop I encounter will be much moved by that reply to his comment.  

     I am supposed to be ignorant of certain things by statute.  I suffer a certain amount of pain about that ignorance simply because I do not trust the people who have decided the things should be kept secret.  I think many of the secrets are there to protect them in particular and not the interests of the people in general.  That ignorance is clearly painful.  It robs me of the power to protest and change policy at the same time that it may protect the people in general and certainly protects the people in power.

     Being ignorant takes from me my freedom to punish and forgive through my proxies in the judicial system.  At the same time ignorance robs me of the necessity of taking a position and voicing it.

     I could go on, but other obligations call.  
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


7 posted 04-19-2008 07:30 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

http://www.quoteworld.org/categories/ignorance

"He was so learned that he could name a horse in nine languages; so ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on." ...Benjamin Franklin  
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


8 posted 04-19-2008 09:58 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

In order to say that ignorance is always bad, you would have to say that knowledge is always good.  And I don't think any of us really believe that premise.  There are some kinds of knowledge which are not always good in all circumstances.  And if that is the case, then sometimes knowledge may be just as painful as "ignorance".  This makes sense of both kinds of aphorisms:  1)  ignorance is bliss 2) knowledge is power        

And yes, good knowledge is sometimes intentionally ignored, and sometimes innocently out of reach.  And either of these situations may be costly.
  
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


9 posted 04-19-2008 10:06 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

That has, in truth, an inch of wit
Oft takes much better care of it
Than he that has an acre's lot
With many parts that stray and rot.


Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


10 posted 04-19-2008 10:40 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

Doth plot the three-inch pot today
In dreaming growth of redwood  tree
a better deed than mountain tour
for eye's demure and brain mature?

Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


11 posted 04-23-2008 09:44 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

"...to taking the hand you just charred to a crisp, and sticking it in the fire AGAIN"

~well, I haven't gotten back with an ex yet..

Is ignorance painful?  I don't think so, I mean if you don't know how can it cause pain? But if it did, more would be inclined to learn/do better, right?

Maybe it's only painful when you realize your ignorance...but then you are no longer ignorant.  If you continue, with knowledge of the ignorance, then you qualify as stupid or stubborn or maybe just persistant?  I don't know, because I think it depends on the situation.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Falling rain
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-31-2008
Posts 2165
Small town, Illinois


12 posted 04-24-2008 07:34 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Everyone is ignorent. Because no one knows everything.

Religon and ignorence sort of mix. Because do we actually know where/when religion started. i think religion is something that gives meaning to the stuff unknown. like myths and stuff like that. But somethings are true about religion.

But over all we're all ignorent in our own ways.  

~Zach~


Earl Robertson
Senior Member
since 01-21-2008
Posts 753
BC, Canada


13 posted 05-05-2008 03:19 PM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

We are all ignorent of some things yes. BUT it is all to varying degrees.

In my religion you are responsible for the light you are given. General principle as it applys here: if you know you are ignorent and make no move to fix that problem you are at fault for any problems that then result.

However on the flip side of that you are also reponsible for the knowledge which you have. Case in point I had witchcraft proved to me through circumstancal evidence. It was knowledge I saught but not knowledge I wanted or needed.

Ignorence is only bliss when we are unaware of it, the same is true of knowledge.

"We all lead such elaborate lives, We don't know who's words are true." Aida

Falling rain
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-31-2008
Posts 2165
Small town, Illinois


14 posted 05-05-2008 10:41 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Interesting therory.. I can see your point quite clear. And you sort of unlightened me on a new perspective.

~Zach~

"Fate leads the willing, and drags along the reluctant."

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


15 posted 05-07-2008 10:03 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Is it me, or is there something odd about discussing "ignorance" when one can't spell it?

"Unlightened" though, is amusing.

I think I'll screw an iPod in my ear and bliss out to Jessica Simpson.

Cripes.  Jimbeaux  
Falling rain
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-31-2008
Posts 2165
Small town, Illinois


16 posted 05-09-2008 08:04 AM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Hahahahaaahah!!!!!!!!!!

~Zach~

"Fate leads the willing, and drags along the reluctant."

Earl Robertson
Senior Member
since 01-21-2008
Posts 753
BC, Canada


17 posted 05-09-2008 01:12 PM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

ROFL I never denied my ignorence (ignorance I said ignorANCE!!!) to the way's of English spelling

(Yes I know that's my native toung...No that's not important...completly irrelevent I tell you COMPLETLY!!!)

"We all lead such elaborate lives, We don't know who's words are true." Aida

Falling rain
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-31-2008
Posts 2165
Small town, Illinois


18 posted 05-09-2008 05:23 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

LMFAO!!!!!!  

~Zach~

"Fate leads the willing, and drags along the reluctant."

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


19 posted 05-09-2008 10:39 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Refining:

If we don't know that there are things we don't even don't know that we don't know, is that "ignorance?"

I think that was the gist of the question.  Trust me, it's metaphysical.

Balladeer:  Your response and quotes were among the most direct and lucid I've seen in here for a while.  I disagree with the God premise entirely, of course, but then, what do I know about things I don't know I don't know?

Jester's:  I'm laughing too, about me.

Best, Jimbeaux
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


20 posted 05-09-2008 11:28 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It would seem more a lie or a deception.  For not knowing everything is a part of everyday life.  It is a given.  I think we see to some extent that we may not know everything almost as soon as we are able to know about anything.  If someone thinks he knows everything and doesn't know there are things he doesn't know, then he is surely blindfolded by a very falsehood.

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> "too bad ignorance isn't painful" Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors