How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Feminism   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Feminism

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


0 posted 03-08-2008 02:12 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


Is feminism a good thing?

LadyTom
Member
since 02-29-2008
Posts 351
LA, CA


1 posted 03-08-2008 02:19 PM       View Profile for LadyTom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LadyTom

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

I say, Yes. Of course yes. It is marvelous and back to the essence of creation.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


2 posted 03-08-2008 02:31 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I'm not sure about the emphasis on a particular gender.  If one believes in human equality why not treat it from both genders instead of just from a feminine side?  I think the emphasis on the gender does often create bias and sexism.  Same thing with masculinism.

LadyTom
Member
since 02-29-2008
Posts 351
LA, CA


3 posted 03-08-2008 02:48 PM       View Profile for LadyTom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LadyTom

When man were on the top of hill and woman at the foot, would you drag down man or push up woman?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


4 posted 03-08-2008 03:01 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

But there is no "top" here for either.  We are both climbing and we should both help both of us equally.  
LadyTom
Member
since 02-29-2008
Posts 351
LA, CA


5 posted 03-08-2008 11:27 PM       View Profile for LadyTom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LadyTom

Dear Sir Essorant, first have a wonderful weekend.

Shall women live up the expectation of God or man?

or for Atheist, man and woman shall equal, right?

As for the roles in the family, social status, political right, how do you see those in the last 100 years between man and woman?

Feminism ....What do you think is more today, woman who is content with herself or woman who will do anything to be prettier (under the condition of free cosmetic surgery)? why?
What is the condition in man?

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


6 posted 03-08-2008 11:41 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Yes, it freed men.


.
LadyTom
Member
since 02-29-2008
Posts 351
LA, CA


7 posted 03-09-2008 12:00 AM       View Profile for LadyTom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LadyTom

John, have a wonderful weekend.
Why does man want to be free from (?) ?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


8 posted 03-09-2008 03:22 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think we have better knowledge and thankfully laws based on better knowledge, but our better knowledge hasn't determined that we have better or even often as good social morals and choices as those that thought there was a gap or inequal roles between the genders.  For example,  it is far more common today for women to have a "masculine" or "macho" bluntness, even shamelessness, along with men so that not only many men often show "macho" and untender attitudes, but now women often do too.  A woman that believed in tenderness of being a lady, would avoid such "macho" untenderness, but today the woman seems to feel she needs to join it futher it seems to prove she is equal.  But better would it be to be thought unequal and believe that it was one's gender-role  to have a softer manner, than to adopt more and more this kind of the blunt and untender manners and mentalities.

LadyTom
Member
since 02-29-2008
Posts 351
LA, CA


9 posted 03-09-2008 05:11 PM       View Profile for LadyTom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LadyTom

quote:
For example,  it is far more common today for women to have a "masculine" or "macho" bluntness, even shamelessness, along with men so that not only many men often show "macho" and untender attitudes, but now women often do too.

This does contain quite bias on woman. Think about the women in Bible, one may throw all five Labels to them. But to me, those are genuine  characters of women.
I have never seen a masculine man or a tender, demure woman in life.

Talyn
Junior Member
since 03-09-2008
Posts 47
North Carolina, USA


10 posted 03-09-2008 07:29 PM       View Profile for Talyn   Email Talyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Talyn

Its a very good thing.

Talyn

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


11 posted 03-09-2008 11:14 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush



Seriously?

I don't think I even have the effort in me to address everything inaccurate and or offensive/annoying in this thread. To me, it should be self evident....?
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


12 posted 03-13-2008 10:56 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

hush,

seriously,

to some it may not be so obvious.  Why don't you make it more so?  It would doubtless enliven the conversation considerably, as I know you are not one to obfuscate your feelings or views.  


Stephen
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


13 posted 03-16-2008 02:38 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Beg pardon, folks, but I find myself on a bit of a linguistics type of kick recently.  When I look at the question, Is Feminism a good thing? I find myself bewildered by the series of questions that have been innocently compacted into one, here.

  Is [whose] feminism [in which context] a good thing [in which ways] [for whom]?  at this point seems to me to be a better way of putting it.  Leaving the question at the current low degree of nominalization leaves conflict likely  though not perhaps necessary.
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


14 posted 04-06-2008 06:44 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

By the dictionary definition, Feminism is:

quote:
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.


How could that possibly be bad?

Unfortunately Ess, women were once considered inferior to men and something obviously had to be done about that, hence feminism.

Nowadays, (in my opinion) it's not really called "feminism" any more because equal rights is a natural thing. I mean, women aren't picketing for the right to vote or rallying to be viewed as regular citizens; equality has been achieved. Their rights should have never been suppressed to begin with, so by my estimation things are pretty square.

Oh and in response to:

quote:
When man were on the top of hill and woman at the foot, would you drag down man or push up woman?


I'd have them meet somewhere in the middle.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert E.

Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


15 posted 04-06-2008 06:56 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

What if Sir Essorant does not want to move?
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


16 posted 04-06-2008 07:48 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
How could that possibly be bad?

What if the way that feminism advocated for equal rights was to shoot all men?

That's an extreme example, of course, but the point is that agreeing with a goal doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with an organized cause. The goals of Communism, for example, are admirable. So, how could that possible be bad?
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


17 posted 04-06-2008 08:42 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

quote:
What if the way that feminism advocated for equal rights was to shoot all men?

this is not in the definition. Unless you want to discuses on your self-made definition. Then define it first.

quote:
The goals of Communism, for example, are admirable. So, how could that possible be bad?

It is bad because it is dictated by man. Where can man's free will lead?
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


18 posted 04-06-2008 08:55 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
... this is not in the definition.

It doesn't conflict with the definition, either, which defines only a goal and not the methods employed to reach that goal.

quote:
It is bad because it is dictated by man. Where can man's free will lead?

Forgive me, but that makes absolutely no sense at all to me. I'm afraid you'll have to explain why your response isn't just the non sequitur it appears to be?
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


19 posted 04-06-2008 09:05 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

quote:
to shoot all men

Do you find the goal of shoot all the men in Feminism?
Do you find shoot in equal right?
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


20 posted 04-06-2008 09:23 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

quote:
Forgive me, but that makes absolutely no sense at all to me. I'm afraid you'll have to explain why your response isn't just the non sequitur it appears to be?


Communism is the end stage of social development in a theory by Karl Marx. It is said that if human being keep working and keep cleaning selfish mind(note: where did the Rand self-interest come from), one day, people would get into a society that had enough goods and people only took whatever they needed but not what they wanted and lived in a very peaceful society without war(   ) and different social class. Sounded very good.

But a man knows no God also does not know sins.   Human being's greediness and other characters  will prevent us from  achieving that goal. But by ignorance or denying, how many people in communist countries have been forced by the leaders on the impossible, mirage journey? if not follow, you will be jailed or killed or excelled or despised. (I am glad that now the whole situation is better.)


PS. "absolutely no sense" is a judgmental phrase.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


21 posted 04-06-2008 10:40 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Do you find the goal of shoot all the men in Feminism?

No, and that's the whole point. How do you expect someone to reach their goal? In this case, shooting all men would do the trick.

Edward copied and pasted a goal and asked "How could that possibly be bad?" It can very well be bad if you believe, as I do, that the end doesn't necessarily justify the means. Telling me someone's goal doesn't give me enough information to make a value judgment.

quote:
Communism ... and lived in a very peaceful society without war

And again, how could that possibly be bad?

quote:
But a man knows no God also does not know sins.

Uh? What does that have to do with communism? Communism, per se, says nothing about God or no god (it changes the meaning when you capitalize the word, so I'm unsure which you meant), and in fact, there are factions of communism specifically devoted to religion.

quote:
... if not follow, you will be jailed or killed or excelled or despised.

Ah, and where do YOU see that written in the goals of communism?  

You are, of course, criticizing the methods that "some" people used to reach what were in reality very admirable goals. Which ... was kind of my point?

quote:
PS. "absolutely no sense" is a judgmental phrase.

Of course it's judgmental. That's what we do when we read someone's words. It doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault, though. Could have been mine. However, you still haven't explained how being dictated by man or a question about free will in any way answers my original question.
Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


22 posted 04-06-2008 11:45 PM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

quote:
No, and that's the whole point. How do you expect someone to reach their goal? In this case, shooting all men would do the trick.

no. The solution is the 38 parallel.

quote:
Telling me someone's goal doesn't give me enough information to make a value judgment.

Can't pretend that you read only Edward's post. There was a starting point of this thread.

quote:
And again, how could that possibly be bad?

Mirage is beautiful...for a hotel's name but not for getting  water or food. But if you are forced at gun point to go to a someone else's hallucination...this I call bad.

quote:
Uh? What does that have to do with communism? Communism, per se, says nothing about God or no god (it changes the meaning when you capitalize the word, so I'm unsure which you meant), and in fact, there are factions of communism specifically devoted to religion.

you are probably too  young to remember Korea War.

quote:
Ah, and where do YOU see that written in the goals of communism?

I told you two posts ago,  here again, the goal of man's free will.

quote:
You are, of course, criticizing the methods that "some" people used to reach what were in reality very admirable goals. Which ... was kind of my point?

You are legal to hold your point. It is not illegal for me to have some knowledge of it.

quote:
However, you still haven't explained how being dictated by man or a question about free will in any way answers my original question.


the  leaders, in China, Russia, Cuba  dictated that the country has to be on this way,  and they have their free will to choose the rules, methods, market system, legal  system and  social system  such as 2 year elementary educations was in charge of university and they were many, many many reticular things and rituals too.

quote:
Could have been mine

I agree.
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


23 posted 04-07-2008 12:07 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

I think you’re veering off the subject entirely, Ron. Of course, I agree with you that conforming to a goal doesn’t mean you conform to the cause; but is that really what this topic is about? Not really. We’re talking about feminism and whether or not it is a good thing.

The goal of feminism was essentially for women to have rights equal to their male counterparts. And the means of their movement was peaceful, not many shootings to say the least.

So when I asked “How could that possibly be bad?” I was basically asking, “How can the pursuit of equality be deemed a flawed endeavor?”

You’ve managed to change the debate into a “the end doesn't justify the means” argument. But that really doesn’t pertain to the actual topic; unless you want to explain why the end doesn't justify the means of feminism. Good luck with that one.

quote:
The goals of Communism, for example, are admirable. So, how could that possible be bad?


Once again, I think that’s a bad example. The goals of communism entailed total government control that affected everyone involved in a very negative way and the end meant living under an absolutist regime. Now weigh that against feminism (which is the topic here), by comparison it seems a bit silly to suggest any similarities. The goal of feminism has nothing to do with controlling others; in fact, feminism really only affects women and in a positive way I might add. So did the end justify the means? Well, let's see, they achieved equality in a peaceful and legal manner and now women can claim the same rights as men do. So I would say yes.

I think I'm just unsure about where you're trying to go with this argument.


  
Nice talking to you again, Ron.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert E.

Seoulair
Senior Member
since 03-27-2008
Posts 776
Seoul S.Korea


24 posted 04-07-2008 12:30 AM       View Profile for Seoulair   Email Seoulair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Seoulair

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Feminism   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors