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Passions in Poetry

Absolute Evil

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Huan Yi
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0 posted 10-20-2007 06:12 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


What action committed regardless of on whom
is considered a universal wrong?
At first thought, I imagined harm to children,
yet in the Tale of Heike I read of children
beheaded and/or buried alive without adverse comment.

And who can forget:  “Lice makes lace?”

Is all morality/ethics relative then?

.
Kalle
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1 posted 10-20-2007 06:20 PM       View Profile for Kalle   Email Kalle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kalle

Morals are relative

Conscience is not
Huan Yi
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2 posted 10-20-2007 06:39 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"Morals are relative

Conscience is not"

Which suggests an absolute measure
and what is that?

And what is conscience except an expression
of "Morals"?

.
Kalle
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3 posted 10-20-2007 06:48 PM       View Profile for Kalle   Email Kalle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kalle

Well, the christian view is that concscience is part of the holy ghost

And there is a truth beyond different cultures that are but a mere expression of the capacity of man possible, of human being as it could be as a race as angels perhaps...

the difference is somewhat metaphysical by nature, but yeah it exist
Stephanos
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4 posted 10-20-2007 07:47 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
... yet in the Tale of Heike I read of children beheaded and/or buried alive without adverse comment.

Cannot individuals or groups act against their own moral insight, and go on to strangulate and stifle it over time?  Depravity does not prove moral relativity, but only our relativity to the moral law.  A lack of commentary may indicate something other than a complete unawareness of wrong.  Numbness, apathy, or even despairing guilt could lead to such a ambivalent and stolid description of evil.    


Stephen
Essorant
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5 posted 10-20-2007 09:59 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Obviously peoples differ in manners, morals, and laws.   But no matter how different, stealing is still stealing, harrassment harassment, rape rape, murder murder, war war.  These things don't stop being wrongful because peoples' morality varies in degrees of judgement and tolerance.  People accepting things that are wronging and harmful to life doesn't make them righting and helpful anymore than accepting poison makes it a healthy drink.  

Huan Yi
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6 posted 10-22-2007 04:15 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"stealing is still stealing, harrassment harassment, rape rape, murder murder, war war."

But not if committed against those outside
your own group. I don't think Moses
and those that followed had much
of a problem with that.

Stephanos
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7 posted 10-23-2007 09:48 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

John:
quote:
But not if committed against those outside your own group. I don't think Moses
and those that followed had much
of a problem with that.


Believe it or not, the Hebrew approach to justice (an eye for an eye) and warfare represented a mitigation and tempering of the typical brutality of the Ancient Near East.  It was a bright spot among dark historical surroundings, though by pacifist standards still quite dim.  You've got a point though ... that brutality and significant limits upon mercy were still present.  

A question you might go on to ask, is whether there is a universal presence of the same moral principle, only varying in how far to carry it?  One says "love your kinsman and friends", another "love your countrymen", and another "love even your enemies".  Same obligation with varying degrees of application.  

Would that indicate true moral relativity, or only varying degrees of moral progress?


Stephen            
Essorant
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8 posted 10-29-2007 01:42 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Same obligation with varying degrees of application. "


By the way, I think that says it most wisely.

Huan Yi
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9 posted 10-29-2007 08:02 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Then is there an absolute evil
living with and thereby aiding which
is a measure of moral cowardice?


.
Stephanos
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10 posted 10-30-2007 12:15 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Then is there an absolute evil living with and thereby aiding which is a measure of moral cowardice?

Evil is not so original as that.  It seems to be defined soley by its relation to the good.  There is no positively evil thing I can think of, but only perversions of good.  Isn't self preservation a good thing in most cases, and only considered cowardly when taken to an extreme, or excercised at the wrong times?


Stephen    
TomMark
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11 posted 11-02-2007 04:46 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Sir Huan
"Is all morality/ethics relative then?"

To each individual's judgement based on one's value, they are absolute, I think.

If one believe that God is the truth then evil is absolute.... If one views God as reference then evil, if you want to argue..is relative.

my thought
Brad
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12 posted 11-04-2007 06:22 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Iago.
Huan Yi
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13 posted 11-04-2007 08:30 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"There is no positively evil thing I can think of . . .


Is there a positively good?


.
TomMark
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14 posted 11-04-2007 09:56 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark


Dear Sir Brad, what is "Lago"?

Dear Sir Huan,


---"There is no positively evil thing I can think of . . .

Is there a positively good?---

positive, negative is more to an impact on human feelings. They are not right  or wrong which is to principle or good, evil to charater. your question is asking if there is a negatively good? (it is conflict by common sense). So, if there is no genatively good, then there shall be no positively good either. Then there shall be no positively or negatively evil either. right?
Ron
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15 posted 11-05-2007 11:23 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Dear Sir Brad, what is "Lago"?

That's a capital I, not a lowercase L. Iago, not Lago.

And what is it? It's a very subtle mechanism some teachers use to show people the value of personal research. Instead of asking what Iago is, try looking it up. It's one of those words that should be very easy to research and I suspect you'll find the sense of accomplishment more gratifying than a simple answer from someone here.
Essorant
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16 posted 11-05-2007 01:42 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

We all for the most part need do the same most general things to live: move, eat, drink, sleep etc.  "Good" and "evil" are manners of doing these things well or worse.  One man eats a wellbalanced meal, while the other man eats unhealthy and immoderately.  One man earns money for a living, the other man steals it.  One degree of the same thing is good, the other degree of the same thing is evil.  

Stephanos
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17 posted 11-05-2007 02:45 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Is there a positively good?


Yes.  My point was that evil is only ever a corruption of something else.  Essorant seems to be hinting at the same truth.


Stephen  

TomMark
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18 posted 11-05-2007 05:19 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Sir Ron, the Great, your words are so provoking. I went to search...pardon me, many are blocked in  my place. It says "the villain of Shakespeare's tragedy Othello" in a dictionary. what that has to do with this thread?

does he give an example of evil?

oceanvu2
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19 posted 11-09-2007 10:39 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi John -- I don't know about absolute evil, but, to paraphrase Dennis Miller, there are some truly evil (stinkpots) out there, and occasionally it helps to thin the herd.

Jim
 
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