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Passions in Poetry

Probably a stupid question...

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serenity blaze
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25 posted 07-13-2007 06:34 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Without mathematics, we wouldn't be having this conversation. (That's Ron's cue.)

But yes, I'm curious too, as I've studied the Hebrew alphabet a bit, and there is an entire meditative practice involving the mere writing of it! (Much like the Japanese art of....of...heh? the word escapes me. )

And then there is the just the creation of new words--I believe James Joyce gets credit for "epiphany"--and I've been known to make stuff up as I go along too.

Like my oxymorons. I like 'em.

"Vaguely memorable" describes about sixty percent of my thinking process.

And I started this thread, because I thought, if we are always going to quibble over semantics, why don't we just discuss SEMANTICS?

Huan Yi
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26 posted 07-13-2007 06:35 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

If you’re a Christian you live in a world of sin,
a Buddhist a world of suffering.

.
serenity blaze
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27 posted 07-13-2007 06:42 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Which has...what to do with this? (I don't mind discussion on it, I just don't know why it's in this thread.)

But oddly enough, I just learned in another forum, that the word "sin" has claim to many beginnings--one of which is an archery term, meaning, "to miss the mark." And in my system of belief the two are not so seperate. According to my belief system, people are not punished for the sin, but by them.

This one's for you, John.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_A8kIHNwrM

(I couldn't help but notice that she posted that video on my birthday--coincidence? I think NOT. )
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
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28 posted 07-13-2007 07:34 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

dear SB, you are bad. You just try to irritate Sir John? right?  but she is quite pretty!!!

What he said is that  you defined the world based on how you view it. then you would handle your daily life accordingly.  

Christian views this world as people's thought  and behaving are away from God's words which is called sin.

Buddha view the world as how you feel which is suffering.

definition and reality.  

correct me if I am not right, Sir John.
serenity blaze
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29 posted 07-13-2007 07:43 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Mz. D? If you listen to her, then what she says applies to this conversation.

I would be listening to her even if it were audio only.

Listen again. This thread is about definitions of language and semantics--when I wanna be irritating, everyone will know it. Trust me.

Stephanos
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30 posted 07-13-2007 10:08 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Karen:
quote:
According to my belief system, people are not punished for the sin, but by them.

And you tell me to quit with the semantics?    

Seriously though, do you see a reason why these two ideas must be mutually exclusive?  

Stephen.
serenity blaze
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31 posted 07-13-2007 10:12 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

No.

Actually, if you think about "sin" as missing the mark, then the consequence of sin, if you are hunting for food, is hunger, and thus, suffering.

They relate.

But being aimless? grin--I do sin a LOT. (pun certainly intended)
Local Rebel
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32 posted 07-14-2007 12:30 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Ah, Hamartia again.

quote:

I prefer the Hebrew outlook on sin as a state of being as opposed to acts of doing -- the human animal, being self aware, has the distinct capacity to recognize the difference between ourselves as we are -- and the selves we have the potential to be -- that chasm is 'sin' in Hebrew thought -- the recognition of this state (as the Hebrew scripture says we are 'born in') can lead us to good or to evil - specific acts against 'law' would be viewed as outgrowths of the general state of humanity.


http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000284.html#6

quote:

The human animal has the peculiar ability, unlike the other animals, to recognize the difference between how we are -- in truth -- and how we can be potentially. This knowledge is the state of being the Hebrews called "sin". All actions, desires, passions, frustrations, are attempts to make up the difference or outgrowths of our failing to do so. The Western culture has perverted the concept of sin into the actions and desires instead of a state of being. The unconditional love of "Christ Power" brought redemption because it balanced the difference, giving the recognition that one will always be somewhere short of potential and allows flexibility and peace in the balance between the two.


http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000642.html

quote:

Our status symbols arise out of the gulf between the self-conscious "is" and the self-conscious "want to be" that marks all life. No person escapes the inevitable struggle to become what he is not yet. All of us carry a load of self-negativity that expresses itself in our inability to like who we are or to accept what we are.

--John Shelby Spong

http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=550&C=668

serenity blaze
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33 posted 07-14-2007 01:46 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

TOTALLY OFFTOPIC:

But I have (at least) two guitar builder/players here and need some help. We are looking for a "neck"--

Jackson Kelly J530KE (Non-Inverted Headstock)

24 Fret Neck (Jumbo Frets)

Neck Dimensions:

1st Fret: .775

12 Fret, .910

thanks

from my son Zachary,

and me.

Now, return to your scheduled program?

*smooches*!
Drauntz
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34 posted 07-14-2007 02:57 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

My dear SB, I heard her explaining about sin. It was a mini-lecture.

I was joking about the 'irritating". don't be  upset.

love you.

have a good sleep tonight.

hugs


icebox
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35 posted 07-14-2007 07:00 AM       View Profile for icebox   Email icebox   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for icebox

I thought oxymorons were those pills that got Rush Limbaugh in trouble??
serenity blaze
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36 posted 07-14-2007 07:53 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Sheesh.

Rush Limbaugh didn't get in trouble. He had bad press.

I get in trouble for all oxy-shrug-o-morons.

(It's just assumed, yanno. )

Now.

What was my question?

Drauntz
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37 posted 07-14-2007 08:07 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

"Would love to hear the various interpretations.
Anybody?"
Huan Yi
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38 posted 07-15-2007 01:46 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“Which has...what to do with this? (I don't mind discussion on it, I just don't know why it's in this thread.)”

It refers to the use of language by religions in forming a perception of reality.

As another example, I just finished a book on the 6 Day War and the thing
that stands out is how readily the West, including Israel, allowed itself
to discuss and act in the crisis before as well as during the war itself in the Arab/Soviet
language context of Zionism and Western Imperialism so that Israel was pressured
externally and well by as those within concerned by intimidated Western opinion to wait for the first shot to be fired by overwhelming forces on their borders, (who at
the same time could and did make no secret of their intentions), and then to pull
back from their successes to the perilous state of things as they were before.  


Think of the “ism”  words that can and have so often been used to intimate
any debate into silence; that by their use immediately cast opposing views
in suspicious light.

Here's something else.  Think about how one's
perception of words is influenced by one's own
religion, Jewish for example, or race, black
for example.

How it is affected by some central event;
the crucifixion of Christ, or being raped.

PS:

What right does the West
to inflict itself on any part
let alone the rest of  the world?

Note:  in the question lies the
condemnation.


[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (07-15-2007 05:11 PM).]

serenity blaze
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39 posted 07-15-2007 03:46 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Nodding here--I think we're in agreement here.

Those "isms" are utilized in politics of religion, (or the religion of politics ) quite deftly by the spin doctors employed by world leaders as well.

I'd love to hear more of what you found in your readings too--I'd read it myself, but I'm literally up to my neck in books on my bed as it is.

And Reb? Thanks for the heads up on the Jackson neck. Zach says it looks perfect, too--so we're keeping an eye on the auction.

(This place is pretty amazing--I can ask just about anything and get answers!)



and I'll be around...a stormy Sunday makes for bad internet connection for me. *pout*

Like NOW for instance. (submit, damn ye)<--talking to my comp again...
rwood
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40 posted 07-16-2007 08:08 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

quote:
Does definition of language affect the nature of reality?


? stupid?

Actually, this is a tricky question that requires a lot of thought, because to me language is thought, and without thoughts I'd have no language, so the nature of reality would depend on my perceiving toss of words, subjectively and objectively, with each word as a variable, depending on culture, mother tongue, education, vocabulary-word comprehension, structuring, mechanics, context, stress, characterization, you name it! The magic of language to me, is there is no absolute nature of reality, because it's a cascading matrix of creativity and learning: an experience by experience, whether those feel I'm romanticizing the notion or not. I am a poet that doesn't rely on other's definitions, so what does anyone expect?

Here's ya the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis

along with a few other schools of thought.

Love ya and your question,
reg

serenity blaze
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41 posted 07-16-2007 07:24 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ah...thank you very much Reg. A feast for me!

And yanno? When I had my babies, I wondered about the language as thought thing--"What are you thinking about?" I'd wonder...(Babies seem to have this wisdom slant in their eyes--or is it that they just look like the Dalai Lama? )

But I appreciate the link--and I just skimmed through Stephenos "Rand" thread--I was avoiding it until I finished the book--and I didn't realized I was duplicating some of the points brought up in that, and for that I apologize.

I'm also sorry it's taking me so long to read these days. sigh...

Thanks again, Reg.
Brad
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42 posted 07-16-2007 08:41 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Arg, the Sabre-Worf hypothesis.

Though I don't have any problems with an extremely weak version of it, it just seems to have caused more problems than it's solved.

Political Correctness and gender nuetral language all seem to be derived from it, but you begin to wonder if these aren't examples of cultural myopia rather than the first step towards an egalitarian utopia.
rwood
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43 posted 07-16-2007 09:23 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Laugh. My Nonna looked like a tiny Betty Boop, but pursed her lips as if she might whistle all the time. I thought that might be due to the music I played while she was still in the womb.

Who knows? Yep, the wisdom of babes.

Brad~ True, and...truer. I can't even say I fully support "cognitive therapy." I feel weird and weirder about non-sexist language, but ya gotta think utopia before building it.

I was pretty happy in an old log cabin out in the woods, though.

[StepheN~]
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44 posted 08-26-2007 02:41 PM       View Profile for [StepheN~]   Email [StepheN~]   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for [StepheN~]

yes because it is language that we communicate from, it is our essential tool for learning.  it is was we put into that definition that makes it what it is.  Words were never set in stone, even if your crazy old English teacher went ape-poo because of grammar and misspelling, it was us that created the language and it was us that put to meaning behind the speech.
 
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