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Passions in Poetry

Where Ignorance Is Bliss

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 07-05-2007 07:15 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise.”

Thomas Gray


Now let’s say someone you know is of a belief,
if not conviction, that your knowledge and/or experience
tells you is wrong;  that someone is happy, in what,
to you armed with facts, is their delusion. To dispel
the mist would cause unhappiness if not worst.  What
do you do?   Which is the higher value: the truth
however well founded, or ignorant happiness?


.
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


1 posted 07-05-2007 07:51 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

My dear Sir Yi Huan  

You must have worked quite a long time in upper house of UK to accustom yourself to such a over polished, sophisticated, renaissance-civilized and highly stylish educated English Language, which made my well drilled grammar so pale and lost its power to sense the meaning of your written words. I need urgently to visit my friends in London, if they could be a bit help of the past.
icebox
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since 05-03-2003
Posts 4246
in the shadows


2 posted 07-05-2007 08:38 PM       View Profile for icebox   Email icebox   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for icebox


As I get older, it has seemed to become more common than I recall for many people to live by the axiom of never allowing facts to cloud their judgement.  

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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3 posted 07-05-2007 08:44 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I think we have discussed this before, but I also think it's worthy enough for a second go round--

I've done more thinking since then.

I offer up this quote from the Bible:

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.  It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." 2Peter 2:20,21


I went and found that because it reminded me of that little story I'd read somewhere, regarding a missionary who traveledthroughout Africa. He taught the scripture and redemption, via Jesus Christ, as he understood it to some of the "heathen" tribes that still worshiped multiple nature Gods and Goddesses.

When he had done this, he was asked by a tribal leader, pretty much the same question you ask, and answered with the same quote I offer you above.

The tribal leader was incredulous. He took his time though, and asked, that if ignorance was safety:

"Why then, did you tell me?"

I'm no longer as sure as I once was if ignorance is bliss--ignorance can be painful, if not fatal when a levee breaks.

Also--I just spoke to a buddy, who spoke to me about Catholic belief regarding "Age of Reason." Apparently, babies and little children are safe from eternal damnation until the age of seven, after they have received proper instruction in catechism, made confession, and received Holy Communion.

And yes, I asked him why the emphasis on the rite of "christening".

He said it was to wash away the original sin of flesh.

(I'm confused too.)

I guess it is kind of like extra insurance?

Feel free to enlighten me, 'cause I am puzzled too.
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
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4 posted 07-05-2007 09:12 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

a true story.

About One of my best friend. A dentist wanted to date her. She did not want a romantic relationship with him. But each time he asked her out, she would go with him to places   like beach, movie, or shopping (both single). He was happy and she was happy( a company I guess). I told her through phone that she should not do this...this was intentionally torture other's feelings. We fought on the phone. She was very mad that She screamed to the phone "it is not your business!". But next day, she called to say sorry and told me that she was wrong. Nobody was happy but the truth came out. Today, every one is happy.

truth shall always come before "happiness" if one wants true happiness.  
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
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5 posted 07-05-2007 09:31 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

quote:
Which is the higher value: the truth
however well founded, or ignorant happiness?


Unless you are extremely (And I mean extremely) close to this ignorant person, I'd just leave them to their little naive world. I haven't experienced happiness all too often and if someone disrupted my happiness just to "prove a point" or correct my ideology or whatever the case may be, I'd be pretty mad about it. Let people be people, if they're happily ignorant, let them be. If their ingorance is hurting them, then help them out; if not, just let the sleeping dog be a sleeping dog.

“Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.”

Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
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6 posted 07-05-2007 09:46 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz



"I haven't experienced happiness all too often and if someone disrupted my happiness just to "prove a point" or correct my ideology or whatever the case may be, I'd be pretty mad about it"

Dear Edward, to you I will say " I shall constantly monitor you. And PLUS speak the truth."
and
"Let Edward get mad and let him get over it."
oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
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Santa Monica, California, USA


7 posted 07-05-2007 09:59 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Sleeping dogs lie.

Jim
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
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Greenville, South Carolina


8 posted 07-05-2007 11:13 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

quote:
Sleeping dogs lie.


I know I know, I thought I'd spice up that line.

For example:

You lie down with the devil, you wake up in Cincinnati.

Gotta spice it up.

“Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.”

Stephanos
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9 posted 07-05-2007 11:34 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Karen:
quote:
The tribal leader was incredulous. He took his time though, and asked, that if ignorance was safety:

"Why then, did you tell me?"



The Bible verse you quoted, involves the idea of relative safety.  Knowledge is surely better than ignorance.  But squandered knowledge can be such a terrible thing, as to be thought worse than even ignorance.  With ignorance, there is at least a hope of learning.  With negligence, learning has been present and wasted, with opportunity all past.  It's all perspective.  

The scripture you quoted was one which descibes an extreme end: apostasy.  Ignorance is only preferrable to that extreme bad end.  Ignorance is only described as desirable when it is compared to something worse, in order to underscore how bad the "worse" thing is.  It's an an a fortiori argument, which says in effect:  If something bad (ignorance) seems good in comparison to something else (negligence), think how utterly bad that something else must be.  


So, ignorance is not bliss.  But it may be better than some conditions.  


Stephen.          
UseTheIllusion
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since 02-06-2006
Posts 223
In a state of limbo


10 posted 07-06-2007 12:07 AM       View Profile for UseTheIllusion   Email UseTheIllusion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for UseTheIllusion

Is ignorance better than ABUSED knowledge?  

When I think of that question, it evokes images of gas chambers, mushroom clouds, and raving dictators.  
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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11 posted 07-06-2007 01:26 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Is there a difference between ignorance and ABUSED KNOWLEDGE?

c'mon Stephan...let the semantics be...
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 07-06-2007 03:27 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ignorance is only blissful until the truth comes out. Once that happens, it compounds the problem.

Does that mean you should tell a wife or husband of their spouse's infedelity?

Not necessarily.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


13 posted 07-06-2007 07:24 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

A man's belief is true because he truly believes in something based on life and lore.  It is not false or "ignorant" because someone else doesn't.  A Christian truly believes in Christ and his lore whether or not someone else truly disbelieves in those.  The truth of his belief is not at all vacated by the truth of someone else's disbelief nor the truth of someone else's belief in something else.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (07-06-2007 08:01 AM).]

rwood
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since 02-29-2000
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14 posted 07-06-2007 08:09 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Ha. I've seen many men set up by women over this issue.
"Does this dress make my butt look big?"

"No, not at all. You look fine."

"Fine? Fine as in okay? Not great?"

"No. You look Fantastic."

"Now that's overdoing it. I'm bloated."

"I didn't notice?"

"That's because you don't really look at me."

"What? I look at you. I'm looking at you now!"

"Yeah, and I just look fine, in a 200$ dress."

"Honey, you look so pretty. Your butt is perfect. The dress is very complimenting to you."

"You don't think the color is too harsh for a wedding?"

"Uh, no, I think it's right for the occasion."

"Maybe I should have gotten the yellow one."

"No, I like this pink-ish one."

"It's mauve, not pink, it looks pink? I hate pink."

"Well it's in the pink family and it makes your skin glow."

"Does my hair look alright?"

"Very lovely."

"Then why didn't you notice I had it highlighted?"

"highlighted?"

"Yes, hon. Summery streaks of blond."

"Uh, I thought it looked different in the light, but I thought it was just the light."

"Does it look natural?"

"Oh yes."

"Which do you prefer?"

"What?"

"My hair. Before or after the highlights?"

"Uh, whatever pleases you. It's your hair."

"Oh yeah, sure, then if I let it go gray, you'll like that?"

"If you like it."

"But you like blonds."

"What?"

"With big boobs."

"What? That's ridiculous!"

"So I have an appointment next month for a boob job."

"Wait, that's not what I want or what I want you to do."

"It's what I want and I need you to pay for it."

"Huh? But we should talk about this."

"They sag."

"No way!"

"Yes, way down to here."

"So what! I don't want you to get cut on for that!"

"Oh, so you're the Man. And you get to say what I can and can't do with my body? Okay Mr. Man. I hear you."

"No, it's about surgery! Not your ugly pink dress or streaky-striped hair!"
Dodge ball anyone?
UseTheIllusion
Member
since 02-06-2006
Posts 223
In a state of limbo


15 posted 07-06-2007 01:59 PM       View Profile for UseTheIllusion   Email UseTheIllusion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for UseTheIllusion

Well, Serenity, I was under the impression that ignorance is a LACK of knowledge, not the misuse thereof.  
oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


16 posted 07-06-2007 02:25 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

How about willful ignorance?  

Or, when all else fails, sticking one's head in the sand?

Jim
Ron
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17 posted 07-06-2007 03:26 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Ignorance can, I think, very often be blissful. What you don't know, whether it's about your spouse's infidelity or your child's tragic death just down the street, can't bother you.

The real question, I suspect, is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing?
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


18 posted 07-06-2007 03:32 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“I can't think about that right now. If I do, I'll go crazy. I'll think about that tomorrow.”

Scarlett


.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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19 posted 07-06-2007 04:44 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

laughing

John? That's pretty much the gist of what I was thinking...

and dang, Ron? No bliss? I mean, if I had m'druthers...
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


20 posted 07-06-2007 06:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
The real question, I suspect, is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing?


Wow! I think that pretty much nails it.

The answer: No, an emphatic no!

Is that redundant?
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


21 posted 07-06-2007 06:40 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Hmmm.

So if you guys are right and I am wrong, than I am truly ignorant and certainly not blissful.

Case closed.

(NO BLISS? REALLY?)

That soooooooooo sucks.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


22 posted 07-06-2007 06:51 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

@ Regina...

Bliss?  We don't need no stinkin bliss...
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


23 posted 07-06-2007 07:12 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"The real question, I suspect, is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing?


Wow! I think that pretty much nails it.

The answer: No, an emphatic no! "


And why is the answer no?
Who is watching to judge let alone
make it wrong?

Remember the bumper sticker:
"The one who dies with the most toys wins"?
What about the one with the most bliss,
(after all, in the end, it all ends in the same box)?


.
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


24 posted 07-06-2007 07:17 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise.”

why I have to take this as truth? merely because a poet said that?

why can't say that ignorance is not bliss and to be wise is not folly.

one may have different definition of bliss, ignorance, folly, and wise.

if one posts Ron's question
"is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing?" as a new thread, I think that most people will say yes.

Not sir Brad. He has said "NO."
why, if I may ask? sir Brad. Even for you own self-interest you would ask a thunder storm of bliss to drop on you.
 
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