»
Discussion
»
Philosophy 101
»
Where Ignorance Is Bliss
| Philosophy 101 |
|
Where Ignorance Is Bliss |
|
|
Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan 
|
. “Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise.” Thomas Gray Now let’s say someone you know is of a belief, if not conviction, that your knowledge and/or experience tells you is wrong; that someone is happy, in what, to you armed with facts, is their delusion. To dispel the mist would cause unhappiness if not worst. What do you do? Which is the higher value: the truth however well founded, or ignorant happiness? . |
||
| © Copyright 2007 John Pawlik - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
My dear Sir Yi Huan  You must have worked quite a long time in upper house of UK to accustom yourself to such a over polished, sophisticated, renaissance-civilized and highly stylish educated English Language, which made my well drilled grammar so pale and lost its power to sense the meaning of your written words. I need urgently to visit my friends in London, if they could be a bit help of the past. |
||
|
icebox Member Elite
since 2003-05-03
Posts 4383in the shadows |
As I get older, it has seemed to become more common than I recall for many people to live by the axiom of never allowing facts to cloud their judgement. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I think we have discussed this before, but I also think it's worthy enough for a second go round-- I've done more thinking since then.  I offer up this quote from the Bible: "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." 2Peter 2:20,21 I went and found that because it reminded me of that little story I'd read somewhere, regarding a missionary who traveledthroughout Africa. He taught the scripture and redemption, via Jesus Christ, as he understood it to some of the "heathen" tribes that still worshiped multiple nature Gods and Goddesses. When he had done this, he was asked by a tribal leader, pretty much the same question you ask, and answered with the same quote I offer you above. The tribal leader was incredulous. He took his time though, and asked, that if ignorance was safety: "Why then, did you tell me?" I'm no longer as sure as I once was if ignorance is bliss--ignorance can be painful, if not fatal when a levee breaks. Also--I just spoke to a buddy, who spoke to me about Catholic belief regarding "Age of Reason." Apparently, babies and little children are safe from eternal damnation until the age of seven, after they have received proper instruction in catechism, made confession, and received Holy Communion. And yes, I asked him why the emphasis on the rite of "christening". He said it was to wash away the original sin of flesh. (I'm confused too.) I guess it is kind of like extra insurance? Feel free to enlighten me, 'cause I am puzzled too. |
||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
a true story. About One of my best friend. A dentist wanted to date her. She did not want a romantic relationship with him. But each time he asked her out, she would go with him to places like beach, movie, or shopping (both single). He was happy and she was happy( a company I guess). I told her through phone that she should not do this...this was intentionally torture other's feelings. We fought on the phone. She was very mad that She screamed to the phone "it is not your business!". But next day, she called to say sorry and told me that she was wrong. Nobody was happy but the truth came out. Today, every one is happy. truth shall always come before "happiness" if one wants true happiness. |
||
|
Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: Unless you are extremely (And I mean extremely) close to this ignorant person, I'd just leave them to their little naive world. I haven't experienced happiness all too often and if someone disrupted my happiness just to "prove a point" or correct my ideology or whatever the case may be, I'd be pretty mad about it. Let people be people, if they're happily ignorant, let them be. If their ingorance is hurting them, then help them out; if not, just let the sleeping dog be a sleeping dog. “Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.” |
||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
"I haven't experienced happiness all too often and if someone disrupted my happiness just to "prove a point" or correct my ideology or whatever the case may be, I'd be pretty mad about it" Dear Edward, to you I will say " I shall constantly monitor you. And PLUS speak the truth." and "Let Edward get mad and let him get over it." |
||
|
oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Sleeping dogs lie. Jim |
||
|
Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: I know I know, I thought I'd spice up that line. For example: You lie down with the devil, you wake up in Cincinnati. Gotta spice it up. “Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.” |
||
Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Karen: quote: The Bible verse you quoted, involves the idea of relative safety. Knowledge is surely better than ignorance. But squandered knowledge can be such a terrible thing, as to be thought worse than even ignorance. With ignorance, there is at least a hope of learning. With negligence, learning has been present and wasted, with opportunity all past. It's all perspective. The scripture you quoted was one which descibes an extreme end: apostasy. Ignorance is only preferrable to that extreme bad end. Ignorance is only described as desirable when it is compared to something worse, in order to underscore how bad the "worse" thing is. It's an an a fortiori argument, which says in effect: If something bad (ignorance) seems good in comparison to something else (negligence), think how utterly bad that something else must be. So, ignorance is not bliss. But it may be better than some conditions. Stephen. |
||
|
UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Is ignorance better than ABUSED knowledge? When I think of that question, it evokes images of gas chambers, mushroom clouds, and raving dictators. |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Is there a difference between ignorance and ABUSED KNOWLEDGE? c'mon Stephan...let the semantics be...  |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ignorance is only blissful until the truth comes out. Once that happens, it compounds the problem. Does that mean you should tell a wife or husband of their spouse's infedelity? Not necessarily. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
A man's belief is true because he truly believes in something based on life and lore. It is not false or "ignorant" because someone else doesn't. A Christian truly believes in Christ and his lore whether or not someone else truly disbelieves in those. The truth of his belief is not at all vacated by the truth of someone else's disbelief nor the truth of someone else's belief in something else. [This message has been edited by Essorant (07-06-2007 08:01 AM).] |
||
|
rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Ha. I've seen many men set up by women over this issue. "Does this dress make my butt look big?" "No, not at all. You look fine." "Fine? Fine as in okay? Not great?" "No. You look Fantastic." "Now that's overdoing it. I'm bloated." "I didn't notice?" "That's because you don't really look at me." "What? I look at you. I'm looking at you now!" "Yeah, and I just look fine, in a 200$ dress." "Honey, you look so pretty. Your butt is perfect. The dress is very complimenting to you." "You don't think the color is too harsh for a wedding?" "Uh, no, I think it's right for the occasion." "Maybe I should have gotten the yellow one." "No, I like this pink-ish one." "It's mauve, not pink, it looks pink? I hate pink." "Well it's in the pink family and it makes your skin glow." "Does my hair look alright?" "Very lovely." "Then why didn't you notice I had it highlighted?" "highlighted?" "Yes, hon. Summery streaks of blond." "Uh, I thought it looked different in the light, but I thought it was just the light." "Does it look natural?" "Oh yes." "Which do you prefer?" "What?" "My hair. Before or after the highlights?" "Uh, whatever pleases you. It's your hair." "Oh yeah, sure, then if I let it go gray, you'll like that?" "If you like it." "But you like blonds." "What?" "With big boobs." "What? That's ridiculous!" "So I have an appointment next month for a boob job." "Wait, that's not what I want or what I want you to do." "It's what I want and I need you to pay for it." "Huh? But we should talk about this." "They sag." "No way!" "Yes, way down to here." "So what! I don't want you to get cut on for that!" "Oh, so you're the Man. And you get to say what I can and can't do with my body? Okay Mr. Man. I hear you." "No, it's about surgery! Not your ugly pink dress or streaky-striped hair!" Dodge ball anyone?  |
||
|
UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Well, Serenity, I was under the impression that ignorance is a LACK of knowledge, not the misuse thereof. |
||
|
oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
How about willful ignorance? Or, when all else fails, sticking one's head in the sand? Jim |
||
|
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Ignorance can, I think, very often be blissful. What you don't know, whether it's about your spouse's infidelity or your child's tragic death just down the street, can't bother you. The real question, I suspect, is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing? |
||
|
Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. “I can't think about that right now. If I do, I'll go crazy. I'll think about that tomorrow.” Scarlett . |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
laughing John? That's pretty much the gist of what I was thinking... and dang, Ron? No bliss? I mean, if I had m'druthers...  |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Wow! I think that pretty much nails it. The answer: No, an emphatic no! Is that redundant? |
||
|
serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Hmmm. So if you guys are right and I am wrong, than I am truly ignorant and certainly not blissful. Case closed. (NO BLISS? REALLY?) That soooooooooo sucks.  |
||
|
Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
 @ Regina...Bliss? We don't need no stinkin bliss...  |
||
|
Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "The real question, I suspect, is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing? Wow! I think that pretty much nails it. The answer: No, an emphatic no! " And why is the answer no? Who is watching to judge let alone make it wrong? Remember the bumper sticker: "The one who dies with the most toys wins"? What about the one with the most bliss, (after all, in the end, it all ends in the same box)? . |
||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise.” why I have to take this as truth? merely because a poet said that? why can't say that ignorance is not bliss and to be wise is not folly. one may have different definition of bliss, ignorance, folly, and wise. if one posts Ron's question "is whether bliss is necessarily a goal worth pursuing?" as a new thread, I think that most people will say yes. Not sir Brad. He has said "NO." why, if I may ask? sir Brad. Even for you own self-interest you would ask a thunder storm of bliss to drop on you. |
||
|
rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
I am blissssfully too stubborn to not ever have myself a piece of honest pie. It's good for the soul sometimes. (okay that's it. I am officially cursed with the rhyme thing.) |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Why are my goals dependent on another's judgement? What does that have to do with anything? [insert appropriate qualifier here] The quest for bliss, insofar as we follow the dictionary definition provided by D., is nonsensical and doomed to failure. |
||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Dear Sir Brad, "The quest for bliss, insofar as we follow the dictionary definition provided by D., is nonsensical and doomed to failure." why? this is a philosophical forum, though 101. |
||
|
Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
No Karen, really it IS more than semantics. It's better to be in kindergarten than to fail the 8th grade 8 times. Stephen. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
If one finds bliss in ignorance, it is because bliss may be found despite ignorance, not because it is dependant on it. |
||
|
oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Actually, Bliss isn't all that hard to find: http://crcs.seas.harvard.edu/workshop/2006/slides_bliss.pdf. Best, Jim |
||
|
Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
I was tricked!!! Sir Jim, -2 on your credit. |
||
|
Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. What is Buddhism but a quest to return to ignorance? And isn’t there something from Christ about only children in spirit entering the kingdom? . |
||
|
Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
John: quote: I don't think this was a promotion of ignorance (which is but one relative quality of children), but of those qualities in Children which represent unspoiled or innocent perception, or emotions. The thing about sinful adults living in a sinful world is that cynicism, skepticism, and sardonic insight enter in. We become hard of heart. So a denial of knowledge is not what Jesus was recommending, but a denial of a certain reaction to it which is only natural, but nonetheless lamentable. This is very different from the Buddhist concept of dissolution, or loss of one's identity into the "One". Rather than no-thought, Christianity recommends right-thought. Rather than the abolition of the mind, it recommends the renewing of the mind to a pristine state. Here's another scripture which illustrates the idea that it is not knowledge per se, but a certain kind of knowledge that is discouraged in the Judeo-Christian tradition: "Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." (1 Corinthians 14:20) Very few children are adept at evil. And I think that is the main thrust of the idea. Stephen. |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
