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Passions in Poetry

Hiroshima

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 07-02-2007 07:18 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


You’re Harry Truman.
Knowing what he knew then
what would be your choice?


.
Ringo
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1 posted 07-02-2007 09:11 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Quite honestly, this is an extremely unfair question, and is one that not a person on this planet can honestly answer anything other than, "I don't know".
This, in my opinion, falls into the category of you don't know untill you are there. Anyone can say that once the bullets are flying, they would be a junior Rambo. Anyone can tell you that if someone killed their wife/husband/kids/dog/big screen tv they would return in kind. Anyone can feel that if they were caught in the middle of a hijacking, that they would say, "Let's rool" and subdue the culprits... yet, no one knows what they would do until they are put into that exact situation, and were forced to make a- possible- deadly decision.

Right now, this very moment, you are asked to blow up a dam that will flood out a valley and kill in excess of 5,000 enemy soldiers that would normally kill numerous of your fellow contrymen... fairly easy decision. Now, place those same enemy combatants into a valley with 10,000 non-combatants who have done nothing to you, and who want nothing more out of life than to fill their ricebowl for the next day. Do you blow up the dam or not? You can save 100,000 American lives by killing 50,000 people whom you have no animosity for, and who have done nothing to you, and whom you don't even know, and who have not killed a single American warrior (or civilian), and whose only desire is to make it through another day of their meger life and raise their families... What do you do?
The only proper answer is, "I have no clue at all."

What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?.
www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


2 posted 07-02-2007 09:39 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I don't think the question is fair without a proper exploration of what a 'conditional' ceasefire ,as proposed by Japan, would have looked like John.

Since it's your thread -- why don't you give us a glimpse.

Huan Yi
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Waukegan


3 posted 07-03-2007 08:46 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287812,00.html

.
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
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4 posted 07-03-2007 02:43 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

what are the differences among A-bomb, 500lb-low-u bomb,  747 jet and a single bullet? and among Hitler, the old King of Japan and Sadam?

Only who's interests?  

Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
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5 posted 07-03-2007 03:40 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Bullet goes "bang" and leaves a small hole in your body.

Bomb goes "boom" and leaves monstrous hole in earth.

Big difference...

“Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.”

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


6 posted 07-03-2007 08:36 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


A “ceasefire” of any kind would have been unthinkable,
leaving a military regime intact with millions of troops
and tens of millions of civilians in Japan itself
ready to die in support.   A regime which over the years
had managed without the bomb to kill some eighteen
to twenty-five million men, women and children in China alone,
(Japan’s losses by war’s end, mostly military, totaled some
two and a half million).

And I would suggest anyone interested read up on the battle
for Saipan to catch a glimpse as to what would have
happened, by their own hands, to the Japanese had the allies
invaded Japan itself.


By the way, Japan then also had its own nuclear weapons program.

PS  An interesting book is: “The Nobility of Failure” by Ivan Morris.
.
Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


7 posted 07-04-2007 03:19 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I would have dropped the bomb.

The Japanese nuke program wasn't really much.

A former professor of mine interviewed a number of Japanese war generals and asked, "If you had had the bomb, would you have used it?"

They looked at him, so we were told, incredulously and said, "Why would we not?"
Brad
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8 posted 07-04-2007 04:18 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Also, "The Nobility of Failure" is a good book.

I read it a long, long time ago.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


9 posted 07-04-2007 06:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Thanks Brad,

I think between us
we’ve pretty much killed
talk on this subject. . .

John

Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 07-05-2007 06:49 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Perhaps, but it still leaves open Nagasaki.

Should we have dropped the second bomb?
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


11 posted 07-05-2007 07:25 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Brad,

All accounts I’ve read generally say yes.
Actually the bomb on Nagasaki,
which was off target, killed much fewer.
And there’s different estimates as to which
killed more: the atomic bombs at Hiroshima
or Nagasaki, or the fire bombing of Tokyo
the previous March.

Note that is was the use of atom bombs that Hirohito
referred to in his explaining the acceptance of surrender,
to a country the vast majority of whom had
never before heard his voice.
Basically he was telling them they had no chance.

John

.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


12 posted 07-08-2007 01:19 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288572,00.html


This sort of thing has been going on
for a long time now.  I remember Yukio Mishima.


.
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


13 posted 07-08-2007 07:19 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I forget if it was Keene or Morris who related this anecdote but I wanted to share my memory of it:

Sitting in conversation with an older Japanese military man, Keene heard the man state that the kamikaze pilot is the pinnacle of humanity.  To overcome one's innate fear of death, to sacrifice for something higher than oneself is the most noble of actions.

When the man left, a younger Japanese man came up to him and explained that there was nothing noble about being a kamikaze pilot. You work yourself into an animal frenzy, screaming slogans of empire and emperor (bonzai!) and lose all sense of what it is to be human.

And then you die.

-------------

Next: the story of Sen Soshitsu, aka the Phoenix.  
Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


14 posted 07-08-2007 07:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually, John, the bomb at Nagasaki was not off-target. It was the alternate destination which was selected due to heavy cloud cover and a shortage of jet fuel. Of such things, drastic changes of history are made.


I'm still wondering why kamikaze pilots wore helmets!
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


15 posted 07-08-2007 08:24 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Safety first
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


16 posted 07-13-2007 06:32 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Yet Japanese pilots wore no parachutes.

Mike, my references, (Toland), suggest you’re confusing
Nagasaki with Hiroshima.  Had the Nagasaki  bomb gone
where it was planned the casualties would have been
much greater.

 
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