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100
| Philosophy 101 |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan 
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. If you go on the Fidelity Retirement site 401k.com they have a tool that calculates the monthly monies you would receive given your current retirement balance. The calculation is premised on the participant living to 100. My first reaction was that whoever worked the model up was either ignorant, blind, or insane. But I could be wrong. I have visions of Pope John Paul and my own father that influence me. Does anyone seriously want, except out of fear, to live to be 100? John . |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I do. Mortality is something that has been on my mind since I was smacked with it, nearly six years ago, when my father died. I spent nearly every day of my life since then, with this ugly voice in my head that said, "I wish I were dead." And even as I lost two old friends this past week, I have realized something, and it sounds so easy, but it was a slow train coming--I do not want to die. Even with all of the painful "goodbyes" that are inevitable as I age--there are also the many joyful "hello's". Life is painful without love, and love is painful when it is lifeless. There is so much I want to see now, John. And I am smiling, because just yesterday, I thought, "If I live to be a hundred, then this is all going to be a blink--a mere glitch in this life of mine." Yeah, I'll take the ride... |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
on a given cause. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. My father was one of those who signed a document requesting, (actually an insistence on his part), that no extraordinary measures be taken to bring him back to life. He wasn’t afraid of death but dying badly. He knew, as I do, that at some point in time, if not pain, you’re not you anymore. . |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
hey you--get outta mah head. I came back to add a codicile: as long as I am not a burden to anyone. Pain is inevitable. I'm in pain right now. *shrug* (and pssssssssst...whispering "it could be worse." I whisper that because--wince--everytime I say that--it gets worse...) But I used to think, that at least with death it would be over. Then one day it occurred to me that I don't really know that for a fact. So? I'll stay with the devil I know.  |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
"Then one day it occurred to me that I don't really know that for a fact." . "To sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub, For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause. There's the respect That makes calamity of so long life. For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of th' unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country, from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprise of great pitch and moment With this regard their currents turn awry And lose the name of action." . |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
If nothing else, I might finish my reading list...  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Yes. I don't think I need to try to justify wanting to live as long as possible. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "I don't think I need to try to justify wanting to live as long as possible." Is that life without adjectives to the noun? . |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I am not sure what you mean by life "without adjectives". |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I want to die at 50, 60 at the latest. “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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BrittanyJ Member
since 2007-06-03
Posts 461Come find me? |
i would not want to live to be 100, although some would disagree. i like to be able to do things for myself and at that age i don't believe that is totally possible. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. Life of course is the ultimate value yet there are adjectives that then determine the quality of that value. Life in comfort is one thing; bereft of the pleasures of life is another . |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Edward Grim, you are hurting your parents! |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Well Ed, quote: I'll see your 100 John, and raise you 210! |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Sir Yi Huan "Life in comfort is one thing; bereft of the pleasures of life is another" May you please define COMFORT and PLEASURE? |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I must be a sissy in training. Quite frankly, I'd be cool with going now, but I've got too much to do. Have a good one, old people...  “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
and much luck, Young'n!  |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
heh, my mom once told me I'm too paranoid to die. My other siblings have too much angst to bite the last cookie, so I guess I not too bad off.  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I think I would have understood LR's father pretty well. The young (and I was more guilty than most) believe they are willing to live life only on their own terms. They don't want to accept the infirmity of age nor the inevitability of dependence. They will live young, they cry out, or live not at all. It is only later they will come to realize they have always lived life on its terms, not on their own. Unless they walked on water or leaped over tall buildings in a single bound, they took the hand they were dealt at birth and played it, sometimes wisely, sometimes foolishly, but always with limited cards. Newton was never smart enough, Cleopatra never beautiful enough, and even our greatest heroes, from Hercules to Beowulf to that guy in a cape who really does leap over tall buildings in a single bound, were never quite strong enough. There is always infirmity, always the possibility and the wish for more. We strive where we can, accept where we can't, and trust me on this, we can accept a lot more than we ever believe possible. Ask Christopher Reeve, Michael J. Fox, or Stephen Hawking. The question to ask yourselves isn't how long you want to live, but rather, how long you believe hope should remain alive. What qualities of life do we value most? Your intelligence, your physical strength and speed, your beauty and sexual desirability, those all rest on a bell curve largely determined at the moment of conception. We rise, then peak all too quickly, after which it's all a swift, inexorable rush down hill. Courage and hope, however, respect no such bounds. If these qualities can be described by a mathematical curve, I have to believe it's one of our own choosing, one without the limitations imposed by the hand of nature. We chart our own course. Your body will weaken with time. Eventually, it will fail you. Hope need not follow suit, however, and so long as we have a glimmer of hope for tomorrow there will remain a burning desire to see that tomorrow dawn. How long do I want to live? Until I can find nothing else about which to dream. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Edward Grim read Ron's words, Edward tonight ten times in a row you'll ha ha ha grow |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I'm beginning to believe Ron, that you may be understanding ME pretty well! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
quote: nodding even the answers change... My dad dragged around an oxygen tank, and told me, gasping: "Life is good." and it is...even this incomprehensible life without him...is good. "We're kinda perfect..."  |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: How about peace? And that's the one thing I sure ain't getting. Growing old doesn't bother me, my favorite people on earth are old. It's dealing with myself for the rest of my life I got problems with. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Smiles. But Ed, even you can grow on you. I admire you for your honesty. Yep, I don't want to live forever, but long enough to be able to finally laugh at my mistakes (that may take forever, huh?) I'd like to see my great-grandkids dance, hear what kind of music they're dancing too, feel the vibes from whatever they're playing the music on, and smell the money it will take to buy it. Laugh. I even wonder what flavor they'll come up with in 60 years. I guess I'm too curious to wanna kick the bucket anytime soon. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Any kind of life is better than death. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I really like your attitude towards life Regina. It's refreshing to hear people say stuff like that. I think you'll have a really great life. quote: Ess, I couldn't disagree with you more. “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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Aurelian Member
since 2007-03-20
Posts 109TX, USA |
Would life purchased at the expense of betrayal of the innocent be better than no life? About the live to be 100 thing. I've always wanted to be old and wise. Call it one of Josh's strange quirks, but I never really liked being young and foolish. Comparatively speaking, that is - I've always loved life whenever and however I've come across it - like rwood, I'm too curious about a lot of things to want to die now. But if it happens, I'm sure there would be even more to learn over there. Contentment in everything! |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Would life purchased at the expense of betrayal of the innocent be better than no life?" If I could save your life by betraying you, I certainly would. Although loyalty is important in life, it is not more important than life itself. |
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Aurelian Member
since 2007-03-20
Posts 109TX, USA |
Na, na, na - my friend, I meant that if one could save his own life by betraying another would it be worth it? Like those who turned on their fellow men and helped the Nazis stuff the incinerators for a few more days of life. Is that kind of life better than death? I think not. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
Ess, why don't you tell the starving and Aids-stricken children of Africa that their lives are better than death. How about the people of Darfur? How about teenage girls sold as sex slaves? What about the people living under constant physical and mental torture? Are their lives better than death? They know death like we know the T.V. guide Essorant. It's easy for someone to say any kind of life is better than death when they're not burning in an earthly hell. “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. There is a point where the mere body takes over and life becomes only pain not pleasure regardless of what doctors do . |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Right. The first instance of that is called birth. Trauma on steroids, I hear tell. Paint any morbid picture you want, including any or all on Edward's list, and I'm sure we can find individuals who have gone through as much or more and went on to survive and eventually thrive. Pain, either physical or emotional, is a damn poor reason to quit. At anything. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: I'm not talking about ending one's life Ron, or even quitting for that matter. I'm simply saying that people in those situations don't consider their lives better than death. Maybe when it's all over, assuming that their pains in life ever will end. And you're right, people do rise above their problems in life. “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
"people in those situations don't consider their lives better than death" Edward, you are not blamed for the words because you are young. Nobody REALLY thinks like that or really feels like that. If any body says this to you, you will know that they are asking for a purpose for staying on. esp love and care. I have seen many. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: If nobody thinks this way, then how come I think this way? I'm not some great originator of radical thought you know. It might not be the way you think but I doubt the whole world disagrees with what I said. I'm also a firm believer in the afterlife. And depending on how you live your life, the eternal life can indeed be better than this one. quote: Drauntz, I'm accountable for any words that come out of my mouth. Don't "blame" my age for what I say; "blame" me. “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
Edward Grim, go to nursing home and ask the old and sick. go to the cancer wards to ask patient there. You think that is only you think of that? No. many people think like you. Because you have never been under that as you said" death is better than life" situation. people struggle to live not struggle to die. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: I already said that I'm not the only one who thinks that way when I said: quote: quote: How on earth would you know? You don't know me and you don't know what I've been through so don't act like you do. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
The case of one of my dearest friend. her father got amputated one leg knee down due to diabetes at the age of 78. Her mother was with kidney failure, dialysis three time a week. her father's brother said to him "If i were you, i would rather die than have my leg amputated." when he visited him in hospital. her uncle's words hurt my friend deeply. A jerk..her word. The father said to her "I would rather die than have my led out (means handicapped esp means losing dignity in his heart and more depending in his mind.) but if I die, you have to take care of your mother by your self. So for you, i will live and learn to use the artificial leg" 1 year later, he got lung cancer. he lived on and tried all kind of new medicine plus went through chemo. His predicted life was 3 months to half year based on the type and stage of his cancer. But he struggled for 3 and half years with a quite high spirit. life...life, how we struggle, is short. cherish. my thought. [This message has been edited by Drauntz (06-08-2007 04:37 PM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"It's a good day to die." A quote from one of my favorite movies, Little Big Man, starring Dustin Hoffman. And y'gotta love the shrugging acceptance in this following scene: "[Grandfather, who has laid himself down to die, wakes up] Grandfather: Am I still in this world? Jack Crabb: Yes, Grandfather. Grandfather: [groans] I was afraid of that. Well, sometimes the magic works, sometimes it does not." I think what I'm trying to say is that if we all agree that suicide is not an option for an exit--we are not allowed to choose. Ever since Katrina and Rita made a sandwich outta me--I try to keep my plans flexible, yanno? So I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's a bit silly to get all emotional about this topic. We do not get to order life or death like a pizza--with toppings of our choice. I don't even think we're allowed to push ourselves away from the table at our own discretion! Prolly a good thing too. We're a moody buncha beings. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
I'd like to remain reasonably healthy and outlive my wife. Otherwise she'll be forced to go into a nursing home --- a terminal indignity after her twenty years of dealing with MS. After that, I don't care. For some reason, while I was young and still immortal, these words had a shaping effect on me: Nothing ever changes, it doesn't get any better, and it doesn't make any difference. Kind of a grim implant in an 18 year old mind, but it stuck. So far, I've faced imminent and likely death twice, once from bullet wounds and once from cancer. I have to admit I wasn't tickled by the prospect of an early exit. Right now, I have no desire to pull a Sylvia Plath, but if the third time proves to be the charm, well, I AM going gently into that good night. I can't imagine living to 100, but I'm still delusional enough to think my best day just might be tomorrow. Best, Jim |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
Jimbeaux! Where've you been hiding these days? You've got a great attitude towards life man. You take yoga classes? hahaha “Suddenly a giant Cabbage Patch Doll jumps out from behind the shower curtain and grabs him violently.” |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Edster: Been sick as a dog last two weeks. Some kind of persistant stomach flu. And, nah, I don't take yoga classes. I take Vicodin. Outlooks on life tend to transform with time and experiences. I wouldn't recommend mine to anybody. I can't remember if I've posted this before, but there is a great line from Tom Waits: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." Right now, I'm looking at a bottle of Pouilly Fume' and contemplating lamb chops. Jimbeaux |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
dear Edward Grim, One of my friend at 37 was diagnosed with Stomach cancer the day before yesterday. she has two children ,9,11. She asks around for people to pray for her. and she told me that she told God that she did not want to die. She now is preparing for the CT-scan and meeting surgeon, prepare for the operation. Another friend, lupus, suffered lung infection this spring, one child, 4 years old. She struggled in ICU for 1 month with kidney failure. Doctors said that she had 20% chance to survive. She survived. She had her two fingers amputated due to gangrene before going home. When I met her last week, she has smiles. She went through a very low mood period but she managed to come out with all the prayers and help from friends. Also She has very good husband. as you said, I do not even know you. But what you said worried me. think about the people who know you and who care about you and who love you. yep. live, and try live a happy life. hugs |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. Does anyone remember the movie Zardoz? . |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi -- Wasn't "Zardoz" the one where Sean Connery runs around in a loin cloth? Best, Jim |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
quote: *laughing through tears* It's great to have you back, Jim.  |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Smiling at Karen and Ron here- My boyfriend (oops- fiancee now) always says he wants to die around 50 or 60... Proximity to mortality (especially in those you love) can shape your outlook a lot. My grandfather's words, before open-heart surgery: "I'm scared... I don't want to die." And I harbor no illusions- his last words, before he suffered a massive heart attack and coded in dialysis- "It's starting to hurt." Was he scared? I'm sure... Looking into enough strangers' eyes when they just know something's about to go wrong... when you walk in the room and they are grey and sweaty and say "Nurse, I feel like I'm going to die..." Those are words a nurse hates to hear, because it usually means that they will- it's a sign of major problems. Nobody looks happy when they say those words. I don't care if they are ninety years old with a colostomy and being fed through a tube in their stomach and have fifty drains sucking secretions out of them- if they are still with it enough to say those words, they are scared. Maybe it's just my nature... but even before I worked in healthcare- I knew the look... my grandparents, my mother (not my dad- post open-heart, and still with dire health problems, he kept pushing the PCA button and cursing about how "there's not enough morphine in this whole hospital to get me high!" lol) but I don't know... it seems like hubris to me, and has for years, to make a declaration like "I want to die when I'm 50 or 60." As if you know what your life will be like then. As if you know you will have nothing more to live for. As if you know, after that point, your life will no longer be worth living- which, to me, seems like an insult to anyone over the age of sixty, especially if they still have a desire to live. And, most irritating to me, as if you are better or more priveleged than any of us other poor saps who are burdened by the infirmities of age... as if you are exempt. I just think, to me, I like to play things more by ear than to make rash generalizations... and if my time comes, before or after 60, I can only hope I will have the luck to know in advance and the grace to get my affairs straightened up and get into hospice where I'll be made comfortable. So, I guess, long story short, I don't really love or hate the idea of living to 100- I just like the idea, as Ron puts it, of living until I lose hope. |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
For anybody who has a dream, a dream to be a better person or dream to have a better world without war, Young( Mattie Stapanek, died at 11 yrs and poem "Journey Through Heartsongs), or old (Billy Graham, 89yrs still preaching his dream), live or die, there is a spirit and the spirit goes on after the breath is out. For anybody who has no dream, live or die, goes the moving corpse. It is not the age dies first, it is the dream, the strength, the hope, the dream dies first. And this is the most scary part. That is why health workers have to put their hearts into profession. Most of the time, it is not the disease kills. It is the depressed mood that plays quite a role in killing patients. If all health workers become killers, things will be much easier. one may say, today,let us set up 60 as the limit. Tomorrow, it may goes down to 30. life is a gift...cherish!!!! and if you have been loved, share it out. Young or old is not important. Today's medical advance, almost every organ(not brain yet) can be replaced by working ones. So one is expected to live to 120 yrs soon. one has to have healthy spirit to go with it. |
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