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Philosophy 101
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Assonance, Dissonance, Consonance?
| Philosophy 101 |
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Assonance, Dissonance, Consonance? |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
What role does music play in your poetry? Do you write for the page or the voice? Best, Jim |
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Drauntz Member Elite
since 2007-03-16
Posts 2905Los Angeles California |
who are they? I have never heard them before. I write with the music of my feelings. tell more! |
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Kitherion Member
since 2006-08-01
Posts 181Johannesburg |
Well, I must say, I write best when under the instruction of Dvorak, or Hayden... but I can still write without music. But, it does offer a wide range of feelings to invoke... so I would have to say, that music is better for writing poetry... and I write for the page... not the voice I'm afraid. Mwah  (Just for you Jim... teeheehee)Love Me "Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..." |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
The best and worst of poems in time Go down much better read in rhyme. |
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Aurelian Member
since 2007-03-20
Posts 109TX, USA |
I think the music of the piece has a lot to do with my poetry. I'm always tweaking with the sound factor, trying to get the mood I want. A couple poems of mine ("After the Thundershower", for example) started more as sound-schemes to which I added a story rather than the other way around. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
Music is my muse. Modest Mouse Tom Waits The Beatles Led Zeppelin Arab Strap Rammstein Jelly Roll Morton Pink Floyd Danielson B.B. King Ray Charles The Temptations Hot Chocolate Muddy Waters Louis Armstrong Classical music Opera The list is endless. I don't write for the voice but music does play a big part. But then again so does cereal and coffee .Head Cheese & Chicken Feet |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Janis Joplin once said she didn't "write" songs, she just made 'em up. That's kinda the way I feel about my stuff. More lyrics than anything else--but I like to tell a story, too, and hopefully they are entertaining. and Vivaldi has inspired me many a time... |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Ed's got some of my favs in his list. though I'd add Ella, Aretha, Etta James, Nina Simone, Billy Holiday, Tina Turner, Miles Davis, Robert Johnson, Clapton, Sting, Prince, and the Man in Black-Johnny Cash. Vangellis sets a mood pdq for me too. that's my method. it's all a mood, the rest is extra. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, I have been criticized for letting the music take over the poem at the expense of brevity. And perhaps clarity. I can live with that. It's interesting that I and Ess read this question concerning the sound of the poem (assonance is the repetition of vowel sounds, consance of consonants, and dissonance is the clash/contrast of these sounds) while others have read it as being influenced by musical compositions). Or is it all a variation on the same theme? |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
quote: Jim asked what role music plays in our poetry. So people answered accordingly. Why is it interesting? And Ess will be happy no matter what, as long as something rhymes. LOL, just kiddin' ya Ess. Head Cheese & Chicken Feet |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
rwood -- Given your list I'l bet Julie London, Morgana King, Blossom Dearie and Little Jimmy Scott would tickle you too. Brad -- I find it interesting, too that it's running now, about 50/50 between people who think the question is about "music music" and the music of poetry expressed in the spoken word. Could have been a badly formed question. Best, Jim |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
It’s a good question. Personally the music of the poem is as important as every other device if not more important in some cases - but that could just be the type of poems I write. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
if Jim was talking about the music in the poems. Then I have to tell the true feeling. I hear no music from Sir Brad and Sir Grinch's poems. I hear only strong beats. |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Just because you can’t hear it doesn’t mean it’s not there. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
My dear sir Grinch, both of your poems do not show strong personal feelings. I heard the heart beat but not the tune.  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
You formed an opinion by reading only two - that’s not very scientific. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Read some of yours. I'll finish the rest later. A very brief read. But I do hear Beethoven No.9. Love ---- one+one-one cry Lupine East meets grace Abated breath Favorite so far---- Almost Forever A shoulder voice High land Fling Don't like-- Birthday....not the poem but how you wrote about a birth. It shall be full of cheerful words. I heard your music....most of them quite sad, I shall say. You indeed wrote beautiful poems . Thank you for those wonderful poems and those mind teaser poems. have a very nice day, Grinch!!! [This message has been edited by TomMark (01-06-2008 08:02 PM).] |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Jim, How is "music" in poetry to be distinquished from rhythm in poetry? Stephen |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Music (Muse-ic) is specially inspired by the Muse. Rhythm may come from anything: a rocking chair, the sound of cutting wood, snoring, etc. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Stephanos, I think rhythm in poetry is part of the music. As are vowel repetitions and variations played out within a single line and over a series of lines, and alliterative consonance played with and against the accents. When a poem is read aloud, the whole texture of the poem can change, especially if you've only read it silently before, when it's read aloud. If the writing has been careful, a whole musical text in the piece comes alive that you wouldn't suspect otherwise. See if you can find "Degrees of Gray in Phillipsburg" in the Selected Poems of Richard Hugo. Read it silently and then aloud. I've heard actual recordings of him reading it himself which may be available out there someplace on the net. See if you can find somebody who's a real ham doing a reading of his or her poetry. The whole discussion about music doesn't really make sense unless you're willing to actually allow a bunch of it to wash over you. Then it's hard to do without it. A poem without the sound play makes you feel you're being robbed. You don't learn to put it into poems intellectually. You learn by allowing yourself to play with the sound and flow and sense of language. If you have to learn by intellectual study, you'd drive yourself bonkers. Shut up Bob. Wide-mouth bass, BobK. |
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Joe Crow Member
since 2007-12-18
Posts 66Indiana |
The Jews say it's math, music and G_d in an ascending order. So how does poetry tie to music? Socrates questioned the poets among others and found that although they seemed to possess a certain knowledge they still didn't know God. Do the poets write in certain rythyms and tempos? Of course they do, at least in their own minds they do. But written words do not contain notes and while the voice can be said to be an instrument all poems aren't musical although you could write a song lyric poem that was meant to be taken as such. I think if you listen to music while your mind considers other thoughts certain rhyme patterns can emerge but then you couldn't exactly say you were being original or drawing from the source. Usually I just sit still and listen to what I hear inside my own head. Freedom of expression expression of thought freedom of love that's what he taught Freedom of speech speaks out of love love for the word that comes from above... If anybody wants to finish that thought feel free to do so. As far as Assonance, Dissonance, Consonance go I have no idea what that means or why I would trouble myself to even find out as I'm just a simple man who writes what he hears. From the Jews perspective math is a form of language as is music but it is described differently than thoughts conveyed with mere words and that the Great God above speaks in a language even more complex than the human mind has the capacity to understand but it's not like we don't do our best to at least try to understand what can be understood. Sorry if I was rambling........ "May the things I know be limited only by my imagination" |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Joe Crow: I think you're either being willfully ignorant or pulling our legs here. "As far as Assonance, Dissonance, Consonance go I have no idea what that means or why I would trouble myself to even find out as I'm just a simple man who writes what he hears." Silliness. Look at your own words: "Freedom of speech speaks out of love love for the word that comes from above..." Look at the internal assonance, ignoring the rhyme. I'm hard pressed to think that you were being casual in your choice of words, or that this was a mere fortuitous event. You've got this stuff down. Why pretend otherwise? Best, Jim |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote: Exactly. So many poets talk to their internal feelings, and respond accordingly. A quiet voice may illuminate a thousand candles. One candle might illustrate a million words. Write on. " It matters not this distance now " Excerpt, Yesterday's Love ~*~ KRJ |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Sunshine! Agree almost. But is poetry not a form to be spoken out loud after the head has done its thing? Almost everything in English poetry was meant to be spoken, and I am hard pressed to find exceptions. The notion that the words are meant to be spoken silently in the head, that they were meant to exist only on a page, puts poems in the realm of any other sort of scribbling. I cannot buy that poetry exists exempt the spoken words. But that's me. Write on! Jim |
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Joe Crow Member
since 2007-12-18
Posts 66Indiana |
Jim, I was being serious when I said I had no idea what any of that meant. Wouldn't you suppose that everything comes naturally and people just call it this and that after the fact? Joe Crow "May the things I know be limited only by my imagination" |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Joe -- Well that's a good question. I've thought that most poetic and literary "rules" stemmed from definitions tacked on after the fact by people who couldn't do it in the first place. At the same time, it doesn't hurt to acknowledge that some formal considerations exist. One can use'm, ignore'em, or whatever, but that doesn't make them go away. Best, Jim [This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (01-16-2008 09:59 PM).] |
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