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Passions in Poetry

Narcissists

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LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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0 posted 05-15-2007 09:59 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Wasn't quit certain where to post this, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum...

For some reason, I chose these people as lifetime mates....

I couldn't better myself or shed any dysfunction of my own, until I understood why I chose these people.  

So here goes....

Narcissists are easily hurt because of their unrealistic expectations from other people.

They expect others to swallow whole their false self - a deception.

They feel entitled to special treatment. They demand to be exempted from rules and conventions - legal as well as social.  

They are ruthless liers

Any hint of criticism, or disagreement - any indication that you see the narcissist for what he really is - is perceived by the narcissist as a THREAT.

Narcissistic injuries upset the precarious and delicate balance between the competing parts of the narcissist's personality. They upset the apple cart.

Narcissists are terrified of intimacy and commitment - and, yet, they crave it. They are afraid of it because intimacy threatens to "expose" their fictitious nature, their invented identities and biographies, their vulnerabilities.

Yet, they crave it because they need someone by their side who can provide them with a constant and regulated stream of narcissistic supply.

This phenomenon - of initiating an approach and then vanishing rudely and inexplicably - is called "approach-avoidance repetition complex". It is very damaging to the self-esteem of the partner and provokes in her or him strong feelings of guilt and shame.

This is a narcissist - 75% of them are males - who derives his narcissistic supply from the condition and performance of his body:

sexual prowess, attractiveness, body-building, exercising, grooming, etc.

These narcissists need a constant stream of reassurances in the form of sexual exploits, "girlfriends", liaisons and sexual adventures, often extra-marital.

Very similar to desensitization to a drug - the dose has to be increased with time to achieve any kind of stimulation. Hence the multiple affairs.
Lying is typical of all kinds of narcissists.
Malignant narcissists maintain a FALSE SELF - essentially, an invented Ideal Ego which replaces their TRUE SELF and confines it to degeneration and fossilization.

The narcissist IS false, IS invented, IS fiction, IS an illusion and a narrative. So, he sees nothing wrong in lying, inventing, and, ultimately, in losing all touch with reality.

Add to this the fact that narcissists regard other human beings as you might regard your electrical appliances - useful as long as they function to be discarded when they don't - and lying becomes completely understandable and predictable.

Narcissists can be very charming and adventurous...they can pretend to be the person they believe YOU desire in your life.  But above all and everything else, fear greatly your opinion of them...they fear social activity.

I have posted this for discussion as well as simply to read and learn.  

And I have since learned to face reality head on...though, perhaps thru poetry, tend to go off into that world where everything is in sync.  

But in reality, just when all seems to be in sync...is when something happens...I've learned that without the bad, one couldn't understand the blessings one has...not to mention, be more aware and gratful for them.  

It is wise, when choosing a mate to realize, none of us is perfect, and to discuss personal expectations to decide together if they will fit the needs of each other.  Be open and honest...as it is better to loose now, then much later when so many others are involved and will be hurt.  

Love is not saving another's life, or pulling someone out of some dreary darkness. i.e. Knight in shining armor or Princess/angel.  If you believe that, then you set two people up to fail.

What are Your expectations of love...???  Who are you, what are your desires?

Most of all...are you in love with love, and the idea of it, or the person your dating, and if so, can you allow that person to be who they are, or the moment they do something out of your idea of what life should be, will you still allow them their personality...?

I loved adventure and didn't know what fear was.  

The more dangerous, the more attracted I was to the situation.  I seriously feared no thing.  Part of it was, I believe growing up in such a sheltered environment...extremely naieve...

another part was simply wanting to love and be loved so badly, more then anything else...and, coming from a home void of love...void of any confidence.  

If someone tells you your no good long enough, you eventually tend to submit to the fact that you deserve very little.

I believe Narcissists are very intelligent people, knowing exactly who you are and what your needs are from the very beginning.

I also believe we are placed in situations by our beliefs (choices)  We are who we believe ourselves to be, and will be as successful as we believe we should be or not.

Our ability to conceive of a perfect image combined with our failure to realize the impossibility of actualizing this image in our behavior is the basic confusion that creates the suffering of never measuring up or allowing others to tell us so....it is all in our conditioning...who and how we grew up

Just thought I'd share my discoveries for topics of discussions and/or Q&A's.

Thanks
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
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Greenville, South Carolina


1 posted 05-15-2007 12:28 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Are you talking about narcissists... or schizophrenics? Haha, just kidding. I noticed that reading your definition of narcissism sounds a bit like schizophrenia without the multiple personalities. I guess all those mental disorders go hand-in-hand.

I grew up with narcissistic parents: one a lawyer and the other a teacher. Yeah, it was tough. Luckily, not too many of my siblings adopted those traits.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a date with something reflective.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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2 posted 05-15-2007 12:44 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ed

Its good to design optimism, increasing your inner sense of well-bing...sorta like a positive public speaker, yanno?

Reflective happiness, high lighting events that go so well....

Thanks for your input...

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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3 posted 05-15-2007 04:23 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

You left something out. Lee.

That sense of entitlement.

(Yes, I married one too.)



Classic only-child syndrome...nod.

I might be back to add more, I dunno. Got any coping skills?
oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
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4 posted 05-15-2007 07:46 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi LeeJ:  A wonderfully wacko rant!  Aphorisism's that woud make Nietzsche proud!

As a man, though, and clearly the most important person in the universe, around whom others merely revolve, all I can do is suck up your mind and keep it.  

Best, Jim
LeeJ
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5 posted 05-16-2007 10:44 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Karen, Yes, absolutely, I forgot that all empowering sense of entitlement...they believe they deserve special treatment, everywhere they go.


Coping Skills??????

Oceanvu2 (Jim)....a wacko rant?????  Well, the 2nd paragraph had me rolling on the floor laughing.....but the first paragraph, wacko rant?????  

Would you kindly explain what you meant? I don't think of these people as wackos, but more so, as people who really need to consider counseling, so as not to hurt others...because they do, seriously, hurt so many others, scaring them for life, sometimes.    

3rd...you could never suck up my mind...not totally, I'm way to deep and complicated...

Thanks
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


6 posted 05-16-2007 12:18 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


This is a narcissist - 75% of them are males - who derives his narcissistic supply from the condition and performance of his body:

sexual prowess, attractiveness, body-building, exercising, grooming, etc."


Alas, It seems I am getting used to posts of yours stating something negative and then suggesting or claiming that more men do it than women.

What do you have to back up this statement.  Women do the exact same things, but atop it all, with all the fuss about being skinny,  looking "sexy", wearing makeup, jewellry and other little things, and the obsessions that come along thereof, I would say there is not at all less to say about "narcissism" among women.  


LeeJ
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7 posted 05-16-2007 12:56 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ess...

You wrote:
"Alas, It seems I am getting used to posts of yours stating something negative and then suggesting or claiming that more men do it than women".

I don't mean to, nor do I think that way.
but now that you have pointed that out, I will from now on, be certain not to generalize gender... and Ess, your second paragraph is in fact correct...

Also, Those who know me, such as Karen, I believe know I'm posting from my experiences, which of course have been with only men, as I've never had an intimate relationship with a woman.

That said...I will remember your post and try to do better...thanks

Next...

Since I've been married to a Narrcissist and have been attracted to them (men) I seriously wanted to self-examine and research to find out why?

In the book, Malignant Self Love by Samuel Vaknin it states that percentage only using the sexual issue and not all the other narcissist behavior patterns.  
http://www.totse.com/en/ego/self_improvement/genderandthena172200.html

Merck Manual also has some very solid information to offer....

Awareness to Human behavior is a very good source of information...and I don't think we share enough of this with our kids...which should also be a part of their education.  Why?  

Because....

Some of the things which happened to me, I'm afraid have changed my whole outlook on life...relationships, and love, some good, some, not so good.

I know it is a learning experience through our own choices...but, in the same, we should teach our kids to be more aware, because as responsible as I should be for my choices, so should others...it isn't right to use people or hurt them.  Unfortunately, it does happen...and narsisissts do not own conscienceness...they feel everything they do is OK and it's not.    
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


8 posted 05-16-2007 01:36 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

quote:
sexual prowess, attractiveness, body-building, exercising, grooming


Lee, most dudes tend to be very simple in those areas. Most every guy I know doesn't really care about grooming or attractiveness, I sure as hell don't. I care about looking pretty as much as I care about changing my socks daily (I don't). And I've noticed that dudes tend to exercise as a fun activity whereas ladies usually do it to lose weight (these are by no means facts, it's just based on my observations.)

And the uh, sexual prowess... A comedian (don't remember which one) put it most accurately: "Men need sex to feel loved and women need love to have sex." That's kind of a backwards way of looking at it but he might have a point. I personally wouldn't know.

I never thought about Ess's point of view about the make up and jewelry thing with ladies. I think maybe it's because society has put women in a position where they have to care about that stuff. I guess guys are in a similar boat, having to worry about athletic ability and being "manly."

Who knows...

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
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9 posted 05-16-2007 01:52 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

yes, exactly right, who the heck cares...

thanks for your feedback Ed...

Have you ever walked into a gym?  There are just as many guys there as women...I used to belong to the Y, and sometimes there were more men there...

As far as working out...I did it to keep fit...but also, for something to do...plus I felt completely exhulerated after a workout...actually at the time, I didn't have much else to do and it kept me busy.  I was always athletic.  

So, I don't believe we can look at everyone who works out to be narcissistic.  But, I have dated men who believe, actually believe that every woman who looks at them or talks to them wants them...(Ess, I know there are woman who feel this way to)  But there was one man I knew who the more you told him no, the more he actually believed you wanted him???????  Like the preacher in Pride and Prejudice, she actually had to insult him to get her point across.  

There are also men/woman who think, eat and sleep sex and possess their self worth by their performances....otherwise, you can't have an intellectual conversation with them.  It is all about them and sex.  So believe it, it is true...with the Narcissistic man/woman.  

They love to have their ego stroked...

I don't believe anyone should have to worry about their looks....cuz it's all about who you are inside.  I've known some very beautiful people who lacked confidence, intelligence or had any socialization skills.  

Also, I'm not suggusting everyone who likes to wear jewelry or work out, or cares about the way they dress is narcissistic.  I believe anything we may be obsessive with, might be a flag to some problem, and Ed, there are all kinds of problems...we all have them, we are not perfect.  

But I'm talking here about the narcissistic person b/c of the counseling I received over this subject, which also helped me understand the why's and how's of my choices.  

Self-examination is a good thing, and to be honest, I loved counseling.  

Understanding is the best medicine to problem solving, not to mention, coming to grips with one's fears.  

Thanks for your feedback.


Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


10 posted 05-16-2007 01:58 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

"But there was one man I knew who the more you told him no, the more he actually believed you wanted him"

Say hello to my sister's ex boyfriend.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

LeeJ
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11 posted 05-16-2007 02:06 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ



believe it....

oh, a long long time ago, I heard that same comedian...
and oh...women do not have to care about jewelry, their clothes, due to society and trends...and there are women who don't care...I being one of them....

But, I believe there is another side to the coin, being obsessive vs just wanting to look nice and feeling pretty.  

There are times, less times then more for me, that woman need to dress up and feel womanly, yanno?  Well of course you don't know...hehe
do you?  
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


12 posted 05-16-2007 02:32 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Oh Lee,

This whole forum needs to come to terms with the fact that I know absolutely nothing. hahaha

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


13 posted 05-16-2007 03:19 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Lee, I agree with most of your definition of the Narcissist...except:

"I believe Narcissists are very intelligent people.."  No not intelligent at all, just a very, very good actor.

he was a habitual liar, he admired himself so much that he insisted on being in EVERY picture anyone was taking.  He spent a huge amount of time looking at himself naked in the mirror, he thought he should have everything he wanted without regard to anyone else or what it might cost them, he felt his opinions were fact....oh I could go on and on and on.  

Every thing he was, was an act.  He made up stories for pity...

I honestly think people like that end up alone and have no clue why.  

Lee, you are not alone.  I was fooled...once.  Never again.  


"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
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14 posted 05-16-2007 03:33 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hello Susan...

Thanks for your input...yes, I do know the pain that I felt in your post...it hurt for many years after, then, I wanted to put an end to it and decided I was in love with a man he could never be.  Ahhhhh, yes, they surely can pretend, and yes, you may be right, but two of them that I knew were very intelligent.  

The one, actually planned music, trips, etc.  They know how to prey upon your emotions and best of all, they love women/men who are vulnerable.

Also, I believe these people are deathly afraid of people who are confident...they can't manipulate a confident person.

And man oh man, what tempers they possess...I mean from a kitten to a raging bull...

and jealous of your individuality...your independence....



Hugs to ya and thanks for your eyes and heart.
rwood
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since 02-29-2000
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Tennessee


15 posted 05-17-2007 08:29 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Yep.

Had one of those. My ex had an ego as big as Texas, which was where he came from.

Long tall exquisite snake bite, he was. More than handsome or charming. He cast a spell on men and women, so I didn't feel so dumb when he had everyone from his preacher to his military commander fooled.

He'd rather climb a tree and tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth. He was everything from a Rock Star to an undercover narcotics officer, depending on who you talk to.

the thing is, he was believable in anything. He'd learn you, learn his in and his out in any situation.

I was easily controlled because I didn't think the way he did. I never went into anything with any motive other than to make a life. That was his life. Swoon, swindle, and look good doing it.
LeeJ
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Posts 13093
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16 posted 05-18-2007 06:40 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

rwod, I've been thur it 3 times...sheesh, you'd think after the 1st I'd have gotten it...it took me though, so long to figure it out, now, I can spot it right away...just in speaking with someone?  Isn't it strange, how some of us (meaning me) are so darn naieve and trusting...I believe I was angrier at myself for allowing it, yanno.

My mom was a very sheltered small town gal, and there is nothing wrong with that...except for, she is so totally disconnected from the real world and reality...and of course, we were the same...so trusting, never realizing that there were people out there who wanted to take advantage?????  That was such a foreign country to us?  And I believe the reason I've been angry at times....b/c my mom, and I'm smiling, was so darned childish and still is?  Maybe it was that generation?  Whataya think?

She married very early, her career was her hubby and us, and we came first and foremost.  She was a depression child...and very ill for a child, so she was even more sheltered.  So, in some ways she lost so much, yet in other ways she was a most giving and loving person I've ever known, and I need to tell her I love her more...yanno.  

But yeah your absolutely right...it simply amazes me how they actually believe their own lies...and what is even more heartbreaking is the pattern of how when they do something that hurts you, or you don't like, they become immediately enraged and turn it around on you...pounding you into the ground verbally, trying to make you feel so insufficent?  

But,I must admit, mental behavior, even mine, interests me....and I'm wondering why, this country doesn't bring these things out in the open, so that we might be able to help these people, make them aware of their illness, so that they can be more of a contributer to soceity, then not?  The hurt they inflict can sometimes be very damaging...

and I believe most of their behavior is brought about by fear...great fears?  

Thanks for your input...

I don't mean this to sound like a complaint thread, but more so, to bring this out in the open, to understand, to educate and to learn...what to look for, perhaps even how these souls can be helped?  I'm certain we have the technology?  

Oh well, happy Friday

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (05-18-2007 08:32 AM).]

Earth Angel
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Realms of Light


17 posted 05-21-2007 01:30 AM       View Profile for Earth Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Earth Angel's Home Page   View IP for Earth Angel

Hi, Lee.

I believe that in the previous comment that you wrote, you summed it up perfectly what it was that you were aiming to achieve with this post.

"I don't mean this to sound like a complaint thread, but more so, to bring this out in the open, to understand, to educate and to learn...what to look for, perhaps even how these souls can be helped?  I'm certain we have the technology?"

I also enjoyed reading the replies that you received.

I've known a narcissist or two in my day! ~ and I could never love them as much as they   did!


Linda  
Kitherion
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18 posted 05-21-2007 04:32 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

I'm a narcissist and i'm proud of it.

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
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19 posted 05-21-2007 03:25 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Kitherion
Thank you for joining in...
Unfortunately the Narcissists I knew were very cruel...but they didn't have a clue...oh, once in a while my husband would say, "I'm a bum"  and I didn't know where he was coming from????  Now I know...but there was no guilt...what-so-ever.

Do you have any feedback?

Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


20 posted 05-26-2007 04:22 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
m a narcissist and i'm proud of it.

Could you Explain this to me?  Because whenever you are courteous to others, thoughtful, or helpful, without directly calculating your own desires, I think you're acting contrary to narcisism.

You're the worst narcissist I've ever seen.  And yes, that's a compliment.  

Stephen.
 
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