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Passions in Poetry

Is it just me... or is the world really nasty????

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Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


0 posted 04-20-2007 12:50 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion


My heart goes out to all those who knew someone, or lost someone in the Virginia Tech massacre...
But, some thought on why this happened... or how to identify and stop this for recurring?
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


1 posted 04-20-2007 01:09 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

good parenting!
Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


2 posted 04-20-2007 01:27 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Profound. Parenting doesn't control ones actions.
Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
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Statesboro, GA, USA


3 posted 04-20-2007 01:33 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Kith,

I'm sure you would say that there is nothing that controls one's actions, except one's own will.  And yet we know that there are factors which help to shape the nature of one's will ... parenting being one reasonable answer.


Stephen
Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


4 posted 04-20-2007 01:36 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

I understand that Steph, but still, ones parenting may support decisions, but still, during a stage of increased brain activity one doesn't really think back to what one's parents taught you (in some cases yes, but in most cases not... unless you have an exceptional memory )so, how would one identify something like this?

I know from my studies of psychology that the mere fact that he resented others, and was a loner would have triggered me off, but how do you find all the people that resent society?
nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


5 posted 04-20-2007 06:40 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

The world is more of a  "ME" world today without  much thought for others.

Outside influences can affect a person, the treatment of them etc... but the  first thing  to do is to  make sure your children, friends and relatives learn how to cope with comments from others and to learn to like themselves and not compare themselves to others.

Other than that I think that when the symptoms show up and a  child or adult  shows suicidal or dangerous tendencies as was shown in the case this week, individual freedoms have to  be put aside and the student should have been admitted for  psychiatric help and kept there or  kicked  out of the school although that couldn't keep him from doing what he did if he really was set free without any emotional help.

I can't believe that parents, friends, roommates or acquaintances didn't see something coming and I believe  some have said so..so why  wasn't the appropriate response taken in such  circumstances?

Only those who allowed him to be there know the answer to that.
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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SE PA


6 posted 04-20-2007 12:06 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I believe the world is loosing contact with reality...and reality has it, that what we do, think and feel, effects so many others.

ChristianSpeaks
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since 05-18-2006
Posts 387
Iowa, USA


7 posted 04-20-2007 03:50 PM       View Profile for ChristianSpeaks   Email ChristianSpeaks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ChristianSpeaks

Spend one day in a classroom and you will see how parenting effects children and the choices they make.

Dane
nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


8 posted 04-20-2007 06:14 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

ChristianSpeaks... I am teaching at an elementary level so I see it everyday...but it's not just parenting, it also includes the total environment and those that are friends and influences in a child's life.


Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


9 posted 04-20-2007 06:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

So who’s buying a one way ticket
to Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan?
Anyone for India?   How about Russia
or is it that there’s too much snow?
Father Stalin and Papa Mao
where are you now?


.
Drauntz
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since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


10 posted 04-20-2007 06:42 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Sir Yi Huan, do you mean every body is bad or every head is bad?
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


11 posted 04-20-2007 07:45 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

The world is as nasty as the news will let you believe. Remember, there's no story in Billy giving Suzy a flower. The news makes money off the bad so that's what they'll show you. Don't forget that.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


12 posted 04-20-2007 08:19 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The world of man
has made major progress in its time.
That should be appreciated.

.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


13 posted 04-20-2007 08:37 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Young Edward, it's not that the news makes money off of what's bad -- it's that they make money from what WE buy.

If we buy 'flowers for suzy' stories -- then they'll surely be reported.

But, on a less cynical note -- the thing that we have to keep in mind is that it's a good thing that when a sociopath at VT goes postal it's news -- that means about 6 billion other people on the planet didn't go postal or get killed by somebody who did.
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


14 posted 04-20-2007 08:43 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

"Young Edward, it's not that the news makes money off of what's bad -- it's that they make money from what WE buy."

If that's the case then, yes Kitherion, the world really is nasty.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


15 posted 04-20-2007 09:34 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi -- I don't think the question revolves around good parenting or other outside influences.  When you look at a mis-wired, sociopathic or psychopathic brain, you are looking at a profoundly biologically flawed individual.  It's nature, not nurture.

In this instance, it appears that fellow students, and at least one teacher, had the insight and courage to "invade the privacy" and report a deranged individual.  That these concerns resulted in no protective action of consequence is a horrific example of legal or collegiate authorities to move beyond PC cowardice and take preemptive action.

It is possible that the assassin might have been helped with brain chemistry assisting drugs in a regulated environment. It is also possible that nothing would work, in which case a long term regulated environment might at least have blocked the danger this dysfunctional human being  posed to others.

The "world" is really nasty, and has been since Cain bashed Abel on the head, if you are Biblically oriented., but this man and other  non-politically or religiously fanatical assassins (products of nurture) was, quite bluntly, just a nut job.  Statistically, they are going to turn up.

I mean in no way to justify the killer’s actions.  By his own failure to follow through with his awareness that he was seriously out of whack, as indicated by his earlier self-commitment to a psychiatric facility, he bears the full responsibility for this atrocity.  
rwood
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since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


16 posted 04-21-2007 12:04 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Anguishing and nasty, hon. The heartache runs deep.

I have to agree with oceanvu2. The thing I hate: These killers are wolves among sheep and the schools or similar buildings offer them maximum advantage to victimize. Somehow, it's become heroic, in the minds of psychos, to pick the easiest range and the easiest targets. To instill fear where they've been cultivating their general hate of anyone and everyone?

Maybe it's me, but in the past it seems like these mental cases were driven by challenge. They seemed more calculating or in the least more "intimate" with their victims. Does that make sense? Not just randomizing.

New breed?

I don't know, but we can't live in fear. We can only reach out to those long suffering and help hold each other up when people like that hurt us.


oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


17 posted 04-21-2007 12:24 AM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Just a quick thought:  "We're here to help each other out."  I think it's our only purpose.  

Jim
Denise
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since 08-22-99
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18 posted 04-21-2007 06:38 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Nature, nurture, psychosis, evil, derangement, who really knows how much each element plays into the various individuals who commit such heinous crimes.

I think one thing that would have helped would have been if the Hippa laws didn't prevent the sharing of this guys prior troubling actions and mental health issues with his parents and the FBI. If so he may have gotten the help that he needed, perhaps, and he wouldn't have been able to legally buy a gun.

Another thing that would probably have saved most of those kids would have been if guns had been allowed to have been carried on campus by those licensed to carry them in the state. The deck is stacked against the "good guys" when only the "bad guys" have weapons.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


19 posted 04-21-2007 04:35 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Yeah, they could've had a REAL (Deadwood) shootout then.  Cause nothing like that ever happened in the old (Tombstone) west.

And we should bring brothels back too.  If the poor guy would've just had a legal affordable outlet...

Once again -- let's all give up just a little bit more privacy and civil liberty in the name of security.  
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


20 posted 04-21-2007 08:23 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Smiling at Reb--

I wish I could remember the comedian who said it first, since I'll have to paraphrase and I'll prolly get it wrong--but it went something like this:

"We human beings are so arrogant, we tend to forget that we are tenuously surviving on a speck of dust barrelling through space, with other specks of dust barrelling through space. We go to work and act like we own pieces of it, and then, with smug superiority, when faced with our inevitable mortality, what do we do? We  buy more insurance."



Hope you are feeling better lovie.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


21 posted 04-22-2007 09:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

So far, who has been blamed:

1. 2nd amendment supporters

2. gun control advocates

3. atheists

4. feminists

5. liberals

6. "Old Boy" producers (Great movie, I own a copy)

7. Asian pop culture (not just Korea)

And this:

“Well, who has created a situation ethics, essentially, zone of not being willing to talk about any of these things. Let me carry another example. I strongly supported Imus being dismissed, but I also think the very thing he was dismissed for, which is the use of language which is stunningly degrading of women — the fact, for example, that one of the Halloween costumes this last year was being able to be either a prostitute or a pimp at 10, 11, 12 years of age, buying a costume, and we don’t have any discussion about what’s happened to our culture because while we’re restricting political free speech under McCain-Feingold, we say it’s impossible to restrict vulgar and vicious and anti-human speech. And I would argue that that’s a major component of what’s happened to our culture in the last 40 years.”

--Newt Gingrich

What's happened to Newt? He used to be an inspiring speaker (Yeah, even for me.)

What can we say except that it's going to happen again. And again.

I wish I knew how to stop it but I don't.

The difference is that, looking at the above, nobody else does either.
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


22 posted 04-22-2007 10:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Meaning that WASN'T a real shootout?

Back in the old West (under our current laws) badmen ride into town and just shoot everybody, avoiding the hard sourdough biscuits thrown at them by unarmed citizens.

Denise is right. The majority of these types of people show signs before they act. Under law, the school was not allowed to inform the parents of his paranoid or possible suicidal behavior without his approval. What kind of ridiculous law is that?
Kitherion
Member
since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


23 posted 04-23-2007 12:31 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Well now ocean, you've opened up another huge debate. The fact that you imply that it was nothing more than an imprinted "nurture" ideology is something that I will not be inclined to agree with in anyway.

If you were arguing for nature, witing the confines of the nature nurture debate, then you might have a point. However, to say that a killer has an inborn trait to kill is nothing more than an insult [Like saying I have a natural inclination to my stuffed frog Suzie... strangly I do, but that's out of the question ] to people who have an intellectual capacity.

The issue, is that people are affected both by nature, and nurture, because the humnan indiviadual learns responses from it's environment, not simply by a single instinct...

Here's a question ocean:

By claiming that it is nature, are humans then nothing more than unsentient animals? I think that while humans may only be a higher form of life, in order to be sentient we as a species must learn from past expieriences...


P.S If you are going to use war to defend your statement about not leraning from past expieriences, then know: The only reason countries send their soliders to war is because the leader of the country has a small p... ... ... brain
Aurelian
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since 03-20-2007
Posts 109
TX, USA


24 posted 04-23-2007 01:22 AM       View Profile for Aurelian   Email Aurelian   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aurelian

It's always seemed to me that the whole nature/nurture debate leaves out a most important element: human free will.
It presupposes that we're just marionettes jerked around by either our upbringing or our genetics.
I don't doubt that some folks are either genetically or socially more predisposed to the sort of behavior we're talking about, but I don't think predisposition equates with fate - it's just predisposition.
And I think if we were to try and pass a bunch of laws to try and "fix" the situation, we'd just end up with a lot less freedom and the same problems we have now.
 
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