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Passions in Poetry

Is it just me... or is the world really nasty????

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rwood
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since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


50 posted 04-26-2007 12:25 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Ron,

After having had a stalker (who was hospitalized for attempted suicide, diagnosed with a severe mental imbalance, and had a history of predatory violations) I can tell you that changed my view of things, especially when the object of his obsession became my daughter.

"To whom do you want to give the power to make those subjective judgments, Regina?"

I want the power to know who's knocking on my door, inquiring upon my daughter. Fair is fair. Is this a good person/stable of mind making the inquiry? Or one that will terrorize her when she kindly declines advances, fixate upon her and make her responsible for his current confusions and depressions, who then subsequently and horrifically kills himself (and not without making sure she knew it, and if he could have gotten to her he'd taken her with him). Call it Mother’s Intuition, but the authorities wouldn’t operate or act on my intuition. They didn’t have any faith in my judgment, at first.

I’m responsible for protecting her and keeping her safe. I suspected something, acted on it, and I’m grateful I did, but there were powerless moments, accusations upon my bearing, and contention with how I handled things. Turns out, I was right about my “vibes.” I made a point to be there and I knew things would escalate into something I couldn’t handle alone anymore, let alone my daughter who was 15 at the time.

"I certainly hope it's not someone who, having opened and examined those cans, decides that YOU should be kept away from your daughter and others?"

If I was to ever be a danger or a threat to her life, yes, I hope someone would remove me. She'd deserve a better environment and so would all others who have to live in fear for their lives.

"That's the power you're giving them, after all. Frankly, I'm not sure I share your apparent faith in the judgment of others."

I have faith that all humans err. It doesn’t take someone with supreme judgment to know the difference between a metaphorical skeleton in your closet and a dead body or the real threat of one. God forbid it to be plural. But again, I can’t say that I wouldn’t want people knowing about my history if, in fact, I have a true need to know about theirs due to direct and very personal involvement.

Circumstances given: I'd say that I was the one who was misjudged, underestimated, exposed, and on trial for what I felt. Let it be. She's still with me.

Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


51 posted 04-26-2007 01:05 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Well, I take it that the world is actually really nasty... .... .... ....
And Rwood, you have my utmost awe for not beating the *+#@ out of the guy!

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


52 posted 04-26-2007 02:18 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

More accusations:

1. Republicans

2. An English class syllabus.

3. Friday the 13th.

4. The devil.

Pinkerton finds comfort in the devil because he's far more afraid that it might actually be meaningless. Hitch sees all these endless accusations because it was meaningless.
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


53 posted 04-26-2007 01:01 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
After having had a stalker (who was hospitalized for attempted suicide, diagnosed with a severe mental imbalance, and had a history of predatory violations) I can tell you that changed my view of things, especially when the object of his obsession became my daughter.

While I won't buy into persecuting people because of what we think they might do someday, I have no problem letting people face consequences for what they've already done.

quote:
I want the power to know who's knocking on my door, inquiring upon my daughter. Fair is fair. Is this a good person/stable of mind making the inquiry?

Cool. We don't need any new and potentially dangerous laws then, because of course you already have that power. All you have to do is answer the door and take an interest. Which, clearly, you did. When I was your daughter's age, trust me, I met a LOT of parents. And didn't always pass muster, either.  

Would it have changed your "vibes" at all, Regina, if his psychiatrist had given him a clean bill of mental heath?
rwood
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since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


54 posted 04-27-2007 09:56 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

"While I won't buy into persecuting people because of what we think they might do someday,
I have no problem letting people face consequences for what they've already done."

Yes, innocent until proven guilty. Sound of mind until proven insane.  It's not a foolproof system, but I'm with you. Though I do believe that persecution isn't always the objective when dealing with those who display alarming patterns of behavior. Mental health is the most complicated and ignored factor of health and wellness. I'm as concerned about that aspect of well being as I am physical health.

"Would it have changed your "vibes" at all, Regina, if his psychiatrist had given him a clean bill of mental heath?"

My initial decision was based upon my daughter’s well being, maturity level, and her current stress load. She was in agreement with me. She wasn't ready for any boy to come into her life. I told him no, and I meant it. The vibes came when He never heard me, and I knew he wasn't deaf because he heard my daughter sing alright. She was in the church and school choir when all this developed. That was enough for me to believe he had a personal problem without having a professional's opinion.

"Cool. We don't need any new and potentially dangerous laws then, because of course you already have that power. All you have to do is answer the door and take an interest. Which, clearly, you did."

Yes, Sir. You're right, but I was especially interested in why I only have the power the law says I have. He was a minor. It's a different ballgame that no one wants to play. Records are sealed on minors and without proper communication and cooperation from his parents, things get very tricky, especially if those parents are well to do. It's not very loving to thy neighbor to deceive them by hiding a history and hoping their son's pursuits of someone's daughter will be normal, this time. Deception is deception. Basically they had prescribed for him a new life:  New boy, new neighborhood, new church, and new school. Side affects: New victim. I'm not without a heart. I know why they did it. No one wants someone they love to fall into a darkness they can't bring them out of. I was just determined that my daughter wouldn't fall with him. The whole thing was extremely bizarre and I had to take equal measures.

"When I was your daughter's age, trust me, I met a LOT of parents. And didn't always pass muster, either."

And look at you now.
hush
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since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


55 posted 05-01-2007 03:34 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Right, I guess everyone's vision is colored by experience... I'm sorry, but I don't need my boss to know I took a bottle of pills when I was 14... and interestingly enough, I was just rereading a poem I wrote like 5 years ago with the line "and twist my arm- I'd like a gun" as the finale... Should I be entrusted to care for the sick, the elderly? Should my innermost thoughts and feelings serve to indict me?

(BTW- I'm so loving the anonymity of the internet right now. )

BTW, Stephen, I'm sure you know all health care providers are legally obliged to report any homicidal or suicidal inclinations in order to protect the pt/others. That's the easy part... what about when it isn't explicitly stated, and the therapist suspects? Or, as in this Virginia Tech case, the violent person refuses to seek treatment? I think that's probably more along the lines of what you meant.

I'm with Ron. Thoughts are thoughts, actions are actions. If we start to punish thoughts, Big Brother is watching.
Kitherion
Member
since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


56 posted 05-02-2007 12:51 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

But, to blame the devil would also take humans out of it... ... ...

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 07-31-2000
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Statesboro, GA, USA


57 posted 05-02-2007 01:52 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
to blame the devil would also take humans out of it...


Not at all.

In his dissent, the Devil is a collaborator, not a soloist.

"The Devil made me do it" isn't true.

"The Devil bade me do it" is more like it.


Stephen
Stephanos
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58 posted 05-02-2007 02:15 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
BTW, Stephen, I'm sure you know all health care providers are legally obliged to report any homicidal or suicidal inclinations in order to protect the pt/others. That's the easy part...



That's not an easy one.

On the other hand, some people are interpreting HIPPA laws to mean that I can't tell a mother that her son is doing okay ... or throw a label in the garbage.  Can we turn patient protection into a ridiculous and paranoid extreme, practically speaking?


Stephen.
Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


59 posted 05-03-2007 12:54 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Another good point Stephanos, however, to bring the Devils inclination to a human stand point, what was wrong was that he disobeyed, rather than actually did anything heineously wrong. So does that mean that I we were to disobey, rather than actually do something wrong, we would be NASTY????

Love Me

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

XOx Uriah xOX
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since 02-11-2006
Posts 1398
Virginia


60 posted 05-04-2007 11:20 AM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

::smiles::    It's just you.
Ron
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


61 posted 05-04-2007 06:14 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
So does that mean that I we were to disobey, rather than actually do something wrong . . .

Are you really so certain you're capable of making that distinction?

Image a two-year-old told not to eat all his Halloween candy. Or a twelve-year-old told to only use the lawn mower when an adult is present. Or even an adult told to never drink and drive. I'm not sure we're always wise enough to be able to say that disobeying is necessarily distinct from actually doing something wrong. Sometimes, I suspect, it just seems that way to a less than omniscient mind.
Stephanos
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Statesboro, GA, USA


62 posted 05-04-2007 10:13 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Kith,

I think you should also consider the end of a process, versus the beginning.  Rebellion, sin, or whatever you might want to call it, always begins in such a way that appears managable and "reasonable" by its courters.  It ends in a much different way.


Stephen
Kitherion
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since 08-01-2006
Posts 179
Johannesburg


63 posted 05-15-2007 12:16 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

True Steph,
However, the reason that one rebels mighgt not be all that evil - persay - and might be due to external circumstances. For instance:
Ever said something on hearsay, only to find out that you were so wrong, and then hurt someone by it?
By using that analogy, it is possible to justify wrong doing, even though, it might not be technically wrong due to the circumstances.

Love Me

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


64 posted 05-26-2007 05:25 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Ever said something on hearsay, only to find out that you were so wrong, and then hurt someone by it?


But your example illustrates my point beautifully.  Care with words, and making sure that they are accurate and not-hurtful for the sake of hurting, is a great moral principle to strive for.  And "repeating hearsay" is called gossip where I'm from, and usually hurts others.  One may repeat heresay, and still clarify that that is what it is ... that further verification is required.

Another clue is how many times something has to be repeated.  If you find yourself repeating hearsay over and over, for the sake of the pleasure it brings, you are probably in the trap of gossip where it's not really about bringing reform or information, but about personal gratification.  We've all been there.  Just because something is common doesn't make it right, or really justifiable does it?

"The words of a gossip are like choice morsels;
       they go down to a man's inmost parts.
." (Proverbs 18:8)


Stephen

  
 
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