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Passions in Poetry

What is truth?

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Kitherion
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0 posted 04-20-2007 12:36 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion


Many a philosopher has tried to define truth... but I am yet to find a satisfactory definition, as they were all reliant on the times that they lived in and the definition changed as acording to rulers. So what really defines truth???
Drauntz
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1 posted 04-20-2007 12:41 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

GOD.
Kitherion
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2 posted 04-20-2007 12:45 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Yes, to you God may be truth, but to others He/She (depending on your religion) might not be. I understand that the bible speaks about God being the "way and the truth and the light," but how do humans put this into perspective?
Drauntz
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3 posted 04-20-2007 01:05 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

the Spirit.
Kitherion
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4 posted 04-20-2007 01:32 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Please, and this is not me being nastty, but edit your responses so that they are at least a sentence or preferably a decent comment.

And what about those who are not Christian? Do they recieve the "spirit", as you said, in order to understand truth? And what about people speaking the truth? The bible doesn't say that the spirit of God allows for people to continuously speak the truth.
Stephanos
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5 posted 04-20-2007 01:38 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I just thought of a great definition to start with:


That which may be trusted.


Stephen
Kitherion
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6 posted 04-20-2007 01:43 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

You make a really good point...

but now I will refer to the point that I attempted to make in my post about why everyone thinks Africans are black... people trust different things...
Drauntz
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7 posted 04-20-2007 01:55 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Christians or not, have many questions about the universe, the world, life, behave, the physical rules, the good, the bad, why the killing?  Many where, when, what, why, how,  and who is God? Who is real God? Why other gods, why Holy spirit and Jesus? Why other religions? Many, many questions. Where do we get the answer?  The real answers are the truth.

you post good questions.
Stephanos
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8 posted 04-20-2007 01:56 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

That doesn't make those thing equally trustworthy, hence your criticism of prejudice and narrowmindedness.

Stephen.
Brad
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9 posted 04-20-2007 04:17 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

The concept of truth is the relationship between a proposition and the world.

"A frog is green" if and only if a frog is green.

ChristianSpeaks
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10 posted 04-20-2007 01:42 PM       View Profile for ChristianSpeaks   Email ChristianSpeaks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ChristianSpeaks

I know that you are going to disagree with me, but I think that truth is only what is seen.

I've seen in my life that God is real - so that is true.
I've seen that people can be honest or not - that is true.

I tend to gage truth on the emperical side. But that's me. I think that, like reality, truth is perception.

Dane
Drauntz
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11 posted 04-20-2007 02:52 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

truth is not perception.
Is moon made of cheese?
ChristianSpeaks
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12 posted 04-20-2007 03:44 PM       View Profile for ChristianSpeaks   Email ChristianSpeaks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ChristianSpeaks

perception is not without sense.

Take American Idol as a case study.

-Many people think that certian people on that show are the best singers they have heard. Does that make them good singers? Or is it that they percieve a certain person as a good singer making it true to them personally.

Then you get to the idea of absolute truths and immediately we find out how many versions of absolute truths there are. Thus I retrun to the idea that truth is perception.
Drauntz
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13 posted 04-20-2007 03:45 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

what sense?
what is the limitation of it(them)?

[This message has been edited by Drauntz (04-20-2007 04:25 PM).]

ChristianSpeaks
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14 posted 04-20-2007 03:47 PM       View Profile for ChristianSpeaks   Email ChristianSpeaks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ChristianSpeaks

common sense.  

the moon, in fact, is not made of cheese.
Drauntz
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15 posted 04-20-2007 04:32 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

American Idol
there is no truth there. there are only different opinions. the only truth here is the beauty of the music( or other kind of music)  vibrates your ears and through brain makes your whole body feel good...who made the connection? this connection is same to everyone. who made it?
Grinch
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16 posted 04-21-2007 05:25 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

I'd define truth as the closest achievable reflection of reality.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (04-21-2007 08:48 PM).]

serenity blaze
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17 posted 04-21-2007 08:17 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Nodding with the Grinch, as that would make truth subjective to the perception of individual reality.

This is why it is entirely possible for two opposing viewpoints to be equally true.

(I'm thinking of the old analogy of the blindfolded men and the elephant, here.)

Essorant
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18 posted 04-22-2007 03:16 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think there are two most important meanings to distinguish, that both betoken a manner of strength

I.  The original truth/troth:

Strength, in respect to being faithful or trustworthy.


II.  The secondary "truth" (originally referred to with the word sooth):

Strength, in respect to being correct or accurate.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (04-22-2007 10:28 AM).]

ivordavies
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19 posted 04-22-2007 05:14 AM       View Profile for ivordavies   Email ivordavies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ivordavies

there is no truth that all may see
not even in reality
for truth blows loosley on the winds
of change and views and other things
the one true truth that all can share
is lies and truth come as a pair
for what is true is also lies
depending how perspectives rise.


rwood
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20 posted 04-22-2007 10:16 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I believe Oscar Wilde got it right when he said:

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple."

If you look at courtroom truth, there are 3 dimensions to play with.

"Tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth,"

this could be:

1. The truth you learned to master while out in the world.

2. The truth with nothing held back/out.

3. The meat only of the truth. What when why where and how.

they can all be honest accounts containing facts, extractable by attorneys, heard and discerned by a judge and jury of peers (each with their own perception of the truth) who get to serve the sentence.

It just stinks to be the guest of honor.

People's perceptions are not free of the outside influence of others, so the truth can't be pure. The hard part for everyone, which I think is most defining of the truth: That which each of us have to live with.
Essorant
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21 posted 04-23-2007 12:27 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

That which each of us has to live with.
Kitherion
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22 posted 04-23-2007 12:36 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Hmmm... so in essence you are saying that the truth is subjected to an individuals view? But then what is the point of being abnle to  discern right from wrong? I thought it was in order to find the truth...

"Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be thy name..."

Edward Grim
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23 posted 04-23-2007 02:15 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Truth is something that can't be disproven.

   2 + 2 = 4
That's a truth.

   The world is round.
That's another truth.

   I can't sleep.
That's an unfortunate but useful truth.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

serenity blaze
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24 posted 04-23-2007 03:26 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I can't sleep either.

That would seem to be truth.

But more precisely, I am CAPABLE of sleeping, but I am not at the present time.

(I don't think so.)

Objective definition and subjective definitions of sleep aside. The subjective truth is partial reality--granted. Morality further blurs the lines of that, as, say, using my analogy of the blind men describing an elephant, it is probably immoral in some cultures for one of the three men to feel the elephant's tail and describe, quite truthfully, that the elephant is thin and long. His assessment is no less true because of his limited access to assess what is the reality of the elephant.

Objective certainty--therein lies the trouble of morality.

I could be wrong though. Just adding that as a disqualifier might help me to stray from the error of objective certainty and then maybe I could sleep better.

I'll go count my sins, instead of sheep.



It's gonna be a long night and I ran out of sheep an hour ago.

Elephants, sheep, and deer. heh...

*laughing*

I think I'll go read and have some sleeptime  tea.

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