Greenville, South Carolina
God, I feel like I'm in front of HUAC with a red shirt on. I guess I'll just answer in order.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the reader, I'm talking about the writer. My full statement was:
"I believe no form is superior. It all depends on the writer, and I don't see how one could possibly even begin to disagree with that."
As in, a writer of one form is not better than a writer of another form strictly because of the form he chose. If a writer has no talent, it doesn't matter what form he or she uses. No talent equals no talent. The reader has nothing to do with the writing process, they only come into play after the fact.
"I don't want to seem like I am joining in a barage against you, but when you said this:"
It's ok; it seems to a popular thing to do.
"Your refusal to study traditional poets, along with..."
Where'd you come up with that? My refusal to study traditional poems? Have I ever refused to study traditional poems? No. I wrote traditional poetry for eight years, Karen. I studied it in school and took extra courses at a community college. When I grew up, I decided I didn't like it. It was boring and dull, so I changed my style; this was about three years ago. So yes, I would know. I'm not the moron everyone thinks I am.
"...a bit of obvious ignorance of specific poetic terms and therefore tools led me to ponder"
That's nice. I fumbled with the speaker and the author once (even when Brad admitted there's sometimes no difference between the two) and I'm all of the sudden ignorant? (I just wanted to make sure Brad didnít think I was a drug addict. Because they know Iím interested in drug culture and apparently I write like a drug addict; I didnít want him to get the wrong idea). You shouldn't be so quick to dish out the ďignorant label.Ē I suppose I can see why you would say that, but no, that's not the case at all.
"Without study, you have no idea if you aren't utilizing methods previously employed by more mainstream (or even traditional) poets"
I am utilizing mainstream methods. Do you think I've created an entirely different style of poetry? Or worse, do you think that I think that? My poetry is not that different and I am not even really good. In fact, I fail to ever see when I'm good because all people can complain about is how supposedly "weird" I write. I don't think my style is strange or that obscure. Itís like was John said, ďWelcome to a world that is not at all impressed by you.Ē Before I was mad when he said that, but heís right.
"It might be new to you--but others might not see it that way"
Karen, I've been writing for almost eleven years now. None of this is "new" to me. Karen, I like you a lot and I think you're a top-notch writer but you have to stop making these funky assumptions. lol
"And please don't feel like I'm trying to attack you either"
I don't think you're attacking me, I think you're really trying to help me.
"So...I ask you, why not just drop the defensiveness and humor us with a try at...say, a sonnet?"
Why? Why do you want to see me write a traditional poem so much? If you look at my early, early posts you'll see some traditional poetry. That was before my style changed. My earlier poetry makes me sick, so you can read it but just don't copy and paste it to discuss it. I really don't want to get into my old poetry. I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it very much my friend. Friend being the key word there. I'll maybe try to write a sonnet, I don't think I'll be able to though, there's only so much I can stomach, heh. If I do, I'll just email it to you because there's no way in hell I'm posting it, lol.
"Anti-tradition, or Anti-form, can be just as binding as anything."
Sure it can, if it's not done right. Traditional form can be awful if itís not done right; which brings me back to the fact that the form doesn't matter as much as the skill of the writer.
"Closedmindedness comes in many forms, not a few of which try the hardest to appear otherwise."
True. But I'm not close-minded to traditional poetry because, as I was telling Karen, I tried it for the better part of my writing "career." I tried it and didn't like it. Good thing I was open to new styles.
Oh Ess, Don't be sensitive.
"Then there is no point in me speaking further, because I am just saying things that weakly echo what I feel I said more strongly in that thread. There is no point in me speaking further to you just for everything to be shrugged off as "pretty useless and silly"."
I said the "What is Poetry" forum was pretty useless and silly. Not you. It wasn't even your thread. I said that because I felt nobody got anywhere in that thread. I'm always interested in what you have to say. I can't guarantee I'll like what you say or agree but I'm always interested.
"This is also why I find the work to be more traditional and less atypical than suggested."
Wow, thank you. I've always thought of my work as "not so strange" but the usual replies I get made me think otherwise.
"I donít find it dark or disturbing, and the issue of drugs doesnít fit with me either."
You nailed it because it wasn't a dark story to begin with. I rarely write darkly.
[The thing that bothers me is: Why do you label other's work on this site as "typical and conforming, trite, boring, and even sickening and painfully common,"]
Well I'm not really labeling other's works as trite; that's just my opinion. I've read much of the poetry and it doesn't interest me. I dig a lot of the poetry on PiP's, but there's only a few poets on here that I specifically look for. I'm sorry if that sounds "snotty", but that's just how I feel. I also admit that I have horrible taste in poetry. My friends always give me hell for not liking Frost or Longfellow or Louis Stevenson (except Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide). I can't help it; they just don't interest me, much to my chagrin.
"when your non-conforming work isn't as atypical as you've led yourself to believe?"
Whoa now, hold your horses for a second. I've said many times before that I never thought my work was that different. If I may quote myself from the "What is Poetry" forum:
"I never really thought my poems were that strange until people kept saying so."
I too thought my poems were typical, to a certain degree. But the majority of replies I get on this site suggest that my style is too different to understand or I'm too obscure. I don't get it.
"In fact, I find this piece to be as typical of free verse, as you've found the rhyming forms on this site."
You are the first person on this site to say that and all I can really say is thank you.
"Your language, metaphor, structure, flow, is nothing so extraordinary that it separated itself from the fold of poetry, which is a good thing."
I agree, that is a great thing.
"Separating yourself from the commoners is ego, Ed."
Yes, I'm sure it sounds like that is what I'm attempting to do, but it's simply not the case. (I may be egotistical on some days but for the most part, I have the self-esteem of a fly.) I never thought my poetry was that different until, like I said, people kept saying otherwise. If I may, here are some snippets of usual replies I get:
"I don't always understand what you write, but I don't think you expect me to."
"I am not always clear what the hell you are talking about - but I still like it."
"Too different I guess. I just don't understand."
"First off I have to say I like your poem a lot but cannot fully understand it."
"I don't pretend to understand all of your work that you do... I want to but it just doesn't get thru to me.."
"ur weird..have some flowers!"
"This is really bizarre"
"i am glad you do not smoke meth."
(The last is one of my favorites.) So as you can see, this idea that my work is "atypical" never came from me. Don't you think it burns me that people rarely understand me? Well, it does.
"as your attitude appears to be separating you more from poetry than your work."
Mmm, I disagree.
"They're just cutting their nails and passing the content off as something it's not because they're in a pinch"
Well, I hope this isn't how my stuff is looked at, probably is. I've said before that my thoughts on paper are how I think. I'm not trying to be obscure, I don't think my poetry is as obscure as some people let on.
Thanks for all the advice Regina, I really appreciate it.
Head Cheese & Chicken Feet