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Passions in Poetry

What defines reality?

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Kitherion
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0 posted 04-12-2007 01:07 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion


Oh, goody goody goody... well, for a start let's just say hi to everyone again (getting your masters degree in psychology is proving to be a little stressful, considering that it takes an "A" to get into the Doctorate course) and to ask: WASSUP????

Sorry about that, my amygdala is working overtime. But back to the topic, what is it that people perceieve as reality? Is it Freuds theories on the unconciouss mind creating our reality, or is it as Jung theorised: that the human conciousness is a collective conciousness?

I for one, are inclined more to the belief that the human brain is what creates the mind, with it's cognitive thought patterns and various bio-chemical processes, but that's just me.

This brings another question: can you have reality without a mind?

Anyway, good to see you all again...

Don
Ringo
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1 posted 04-12-2007 10:41 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Reality, plain and simple, (and without the letters after my name) is perception.

What one perceives is what is real- or reality- to that person. While others might perceive, for example, a rock star as rich, powerful, famous, talented, and worthy of adolation, that rock star (movie star/wrestling star/ etc) might perceive him/herself as being a loathsome toad. Which is "reality"? One or the other? Both? Neither?

Whatever one perceives is the reality, is- in fact- that reality.

What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?.
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Edward Grim
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2 posted 04-12-2007 02:25 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

I agree with Ringo 1000%.


"can you have reality without a mind?"

That is a very interesting question. When you look at individuals in a vegetative state (such as severe brain damage or in a coma possibly), you have to wonder if they have a "reality." Well, a dead person has no earthly reality, so could a "brain dead" person have a reality? You know what they say: Kill the head and the body will die. Since reality is something the individual perceives and if the individual can't even think, then no you can't have reality without a mind. That's my take on it.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

Christopher
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3 posted 04-12-2007 04:04 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

There was an interesting discussion started about that around... (OMG! ), uhm, over 7 years ago.
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000111.html
Edward Grim
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4 posted 04-12-2007 05:11 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

lol

Well I've heard of history repeating itself, but...

You know what the Chinese say: What happens twice will happen three times.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

Brad
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5 posted 04-12-2007 07:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Reality is a possession?

Stephanos
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6 posted 04-12-2007 08:59 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Reality, plain and simple, (and without the letters after my name) is perception.


If it were as simple as that, then there would be no such thing as an optical illusion, or those nice little warnings on our automobile mirrors: "objects are closer than they appear".  

You have to figure in an objective world at some point, or else deal with it when it smacks you.  Subjectivity and objectivity must be married somehow, if we're to even approach ontology.


Stephen.
jbouder
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7 posted 04-13-2007 09:35 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Equating reality with perception seems more like vanity to me.  Brad ... is vanity a possession?
Brad
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8 posted 04-13-2007 06:06 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I guess so. We are in possession of characteristics, right?

So, are we discussing 'what defines reality?' or 'what defines our perception of reality?'

If I remember correctly, I have sometimes muddied the ground here as well.

Is it mud?
Essorant
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9 posted 04-13-2007 06:11 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

If you take away the suffixes from reality, you have re-, from Latin res meaning "thing".  The suffixes al, and ity, basically just make it an adjective (re-al) and then make it an abstract noun (re-al-ity), "the state of being a thing".    We could do the same thing with the word thing using the English suffixes ly and ness, giving us thingly, and then thingliness.

So what defines thingliness (reality)?  

It seems to me any and every thing does!


XOx Uriah xOX
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10 posted 04-16-2007 04:27 AM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

The meaning of the word define is... "to limit"
What "defines" reality ?     Nothing
Limited reality = phenomenon
Therein...  Lies the question.
Kitherion
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11 posted 04-17-2007 04:54 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Ed...

You can't say that the fact you have no ocipital lobe/lesioning of the ocipital or temporal/parential lobe leads to the loss of reality! Just because the patient cannot express a physical reality, does not mean that his reality is any less important...
Local Rebel
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12 posted 04-17-2007 11:40 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000524.html
Drauntz
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13 posted 04-18-2007 07:51 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

everything except your own opinion.
Stephanos
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14 posted 04-19-2007 12:59 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

including yours?  
Drauntz
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15 posted 04-19-2007 01:23 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

exactly. my opinion on you or the world is your reality. how nice! can't ignore!!
Stephanos
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16 posted 04-19-2007 05:40 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
exactly. my opinion on you or the world is your reality.


This contradicts what you previously said ... that everything is reality except opinions.  Opinions can be right or wrong, true or false, inasmuch as they correspond or fail to correspond to reality.  


Stephen
Drauntz
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17 posted 04-19-2007 06:08 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz


your opinion on me belongs to my reality.
my own opinion is not my reality.
serenity blaze
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18 posted 04-19-2007 07:27 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I think it's more like, "Who defines reality?"

We do.

And our definition is challenged, if not daily, then regularly. A run of the gauntlet regarding adaptability, if you will. Since everything is in constant flux proper adjustments must be made.
Huan Yi
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19 posted 04-19-2007 07:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Catch your finger in a car door . . .


.
serenity blaze
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20 posted 04-19-2007 08:03 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

been there, did that



Stephanos
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21 posted 04-19-2007 09:25 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
I think it's more like, "Who defines reality?"

We do.

And our definition is challenged, if not daily, then regularly. A run of the gauntlet regarding adaptability, if you will. Since everything is in constant flux proper adjustments must be made.


I think a better term would be "interpret" rather than "define".  Reality is not dependent upon our interpretations, but the other way around.  That's where adaptability comes in, when we face reality on its own terms.

quote:
your opinion on me belongs to my reality.  my own opinion is not my reality.



Actually your opinion IS also your reality, unless you deem yourself unreal.  


I think what you may be trying to say is that the interpretive content of opinions cannot correspond to reality, hence someone else's opinion becomes reality only by "being" rather than interpreting.  But I don't see why one's own opinion would not also be a part of reality.  Nor do I see why the interpretive aspect of someone's opinion may either correspond or fail to correspond to reality.  That's why we have words like "lie" and "truth", and "right" and "wrong", and "correct", and "incorrect".  


It's a necessary way of looking at things unless you want to take the way Nietzsche did, and call all reason and interpretation false, and only pure sensory perception "real".  But the moment he did, he lost the right to talk, apart from adding to the noise.


Stephen.
Drauntz
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22 posted 04-19-2007 11:58 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

part of or all of my opinions could be illusions...which is not reality unless is pathological. I have to adjust my opinions based on surroundings...
My opinion: Sun is black while black is green and  green is blue...my blue is not your blue.
My  opinion does not fit reality so need to adjust. If I insist then it becomes pathological reality. Are we talking about normal people or else?
 
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