How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Do we have fundamental rights?   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 25 26 27 28
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Do we have fundamental rights?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


25 posted 03-21-2007 08:28 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

I think you mean "America" dude.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


26 posted 03-22-2007 08:49 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Ron:

I don't think I suggested anything of the sort.  I could probably research the Constitutions and laws of other countries that grant their respective citizens fundamental rights (and I would expect to find such declarations in Western European countries, numerous countries in Africa, and India, to name a few).

In countries without such laws, I suppose you have to ask yourself whether certain rights are fundamental apart from the laws of the land.  That raises the question I think Chris was really getting at ... apart from legal declarations of fundamental rights, are there certain rights all human beings have solely on the basis of their being human beings.  The framers of the U.S. Constitution and its source documents (e.g., the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta) seemed to attribute the source of our "unalienable rights" to be the Laws of Nature and the Laws of Nature's God (althought I believe the latter to be more philosophical than theological).  But it is difficult to argue even from a Biblical standpoint that people have fundamental rights apart from the declaration of a lawgiver (or Lawgiver).

I would argue that there are certain countries where fundamental rights of their citizens ought to be granted for the benefit of the citizens and their society, but that, under tyranical regimes, either the recognition of fundamental rights or fundamental rights themselves do not exist.

Jim
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


27 posted 03-22-2007 11:58 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
That raises the question I think Chris was really getting at ... apart from legal declarations of fundamental rights, are there certain rights all human beings have solely on the basis of their being human beings.
That's definitely more the direction I was looking at - one can argue on a country-by-country (perhaps city-by-city as some basic laws may differ even there) basis and provide some evidence that IN THAT COUNTRY, there are what could be called fundamental rights... within that framework. But I was thinking in more base and global terms.

I apologize for starting something and not returning in full. We had a a big scare with my son. He's ok now, but it was touch-and-go and really scary there for a moment. I'll try to get back in when I get a bit more caught up here at work.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


28 posted 03-22-2007 01:23 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
But it is difficult to argue even from a Biblical standpoint that people have fundamental rights apart from the declaration of a lawgiver (or Lawgiver).

My argument isn't Biblical, guys, but simply pragmatic.

China has no such laws guarding free speech and, indeed, has been well known to suppress free speech at every turn. What is to stop you, however, from flying into Beijing, crawling up onto a handy soap box, and denouncing their government to anyone willing to listen?

Free speech is a fundamental right. As long as you live, no one can take that freedom away from you without your cooperation. All they can ever do is make the price of exercising that freedom higher than you are willing to pay. The choice is still, and always, yours to make.

The only difference between America and China is that we try alleviate (never eliminate) the cost. We try to make it easier (never easy) to exercise the right of free speech. We acknowledge the right, we don't create it.

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Do we have fundamental rights?   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors