Has the idea that women
are no different from men
done in general
more harm or good?
Who believes women are no different from men?
I like being different, not just from men but from anyone else on the planet.
So saith my DNA.
I believe the applicable word here is "better."
Women are no better at being human than men
and men are no better at being human than women.
It takes everybody to make a world. Even fruits.
That's sort of why we enjoy the implications of equal rights. The private sectors still speak loudly for themselves.
Men let us believe we have equal rights, on paper, and women let men believe we actually believe what's written. That's okay. We're making headway on the NASDAQ, baby, and it ain't Barbie. "Biotechniciennes" are my heroines. Oh Gawd. Now they'll come out with Biotech Barbie.
Did women's liberation
in fact free men
of any sense of duty,
responsibility or obligation
Same question, same answer.
I beg you to think of your question. Freedom from oppression really does upset those that depend heavily on slave production. What kind of a man with any sense of duty, respect, responsibility, obligation, or any kind of honor would allow the oppression of another in good conscience? The Tyrants being discussed in Brad's other thread.
Perhaps someone in a drunken-vampirical state could justify why one human is less human compared to him/herself, but I couldn't/wouldn't call that person honorable.
by which, as opposed to
power, confrontations with danger, killing
dragons or each other, they could define
their beings as men?
That defines Men?
Your questions are delightfully plagued, (dragons, et alii) with old adage from a time when most men had rites of passage from the shadows of their fathers, through the keen eyes of the community, with bare-handed work or hard honest management of the family business. War aside; men were as good as their word. The apron strings were cut, not by the mothers but by the sons. This was all-important to them. Can we say this is so now?
How did women do that all by themselves?
Many young men/women are sitting at home today at 25+, playing video games and plotting their next gathering of peers with their parent’s money. This could include an all night jam session with WHAZUPBI*ATCHES or being in an episode of Girls Gone Wild. Then again it could be a chess game at the civic center? Who knows?
Granted: The Feminist movement moved through and with any movement things can get constipated or run off…topic? I never trust anyone who screams out who they are for they are not convinced. I don't support many of their views because they are demeaning to men. I happen to love the way I was conceived.
It's not like women have had forever to try and get it right. We're still trying to learn how to learn and engage with others what we've learned. Take this forum as an example. How many women do you see posting? Could it be because it's philosophy and women shy away from critical thinking due to critical reception? It's easier just to remain quiet, make nice, and play purty or get a sugar daddy so we never have to think about anything beyond hair & tan appts. again. Not my call.
I say blast it all. It's easy to criticize, but to encourage, explore, build bridges? Even in the archives & annals of philosophy, men might be ashamed at having so much freedom all this time and doing nothing with it besides remodeling walls. We should help each other tear them down for good, for the good of all, not just one or the other.
I don't support or buy into personas who flaunt their hoohaas across the media as if it's something the world wants to see. I don't blame a certain party for it either. The media presents. People buy. If no one's buying. Hmm. The persona becomes a washed-up hoohaa fiddler without a song or dance. After a while, people might have a renewed appreciation for the Botticelli's and Michelangelo's of the world.
What you've already said is important:
Men can't ultimately "fix" this problem. Only women can. I'm starting to think that the objectification of women in the media can only be "blamed" on the women in the media.
Some women are doing exactly what they think men want. If they are wrong, how many men will stand up and say, "That's not what I want."
Also as you say women need to accept some responsibility. I don't think we'll be able to respect others until we respect ourselves.
Responsibility and respect is a definite issue. What Ron stated earlier about brick terms "you don't get to set those," on what's morally right, correct, universally applicable, etc. And I'm not trying to pass judgment on anyone's aspirations in life, but when others are hurt by the images projected, it's time to look into what's going on. I personally feel it boils down to some type of competition. Women are competing, no holds barred, with each other.
symbols are not "agents" of active life, conciousness, choice, or action. They are just tokens used to refer to things.
I believe you, but some young women truly do want to go to Hollywood and become sex symbols. Period.
They will surgically alter their figures and faces specifically to fit the mold. It is their goal and their dream. Why? I have no say. Just as they have no say over my goals and dreams.
Isn't it true that Maud Gonne caused Yeats much frustration in her resistance to his illicit sexual advances?
Very clever. Pursuit, again. Dream on dreams. He wanted her no matter what she did, who she was with or where she was in life. Though if she’d given in? The poetry that would not have been written.
I once heard some guy on TV stating something along the lines of: "Women rule sexual tension." "Men set the standards of Romance."
Does anyone feel there is any truth or strategy to this?