How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Are women objects?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ]
 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Are women objects?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


150 posted 06-06-2007 08:09 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

What next?

Are women fruit?


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


151 posted 06-07-2007 08:42 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Has the idea that women
are no different from men
done in general
more harm or good?

Did women's liberation
in fact free men
of any sense of duty,
responsibility or obligation
by which, as opposed to
power, confrontations with danger, killing
dragons or each other, they could define
their beings as men?

If indeed women are no different
from men it just then becomes what body
you chose to have sex with.


.
Drauntz
Member Elite
since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


152 posted 06-08-2007 12:36 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Has the idea that women
are no different from men
done in general
more harm or good?

--of course. children lost both parents.

Did women's liberation
in fact free men
of any sense of duty,
responsibility or obligation
by which, as opposed to
power, confrontations with danger, killing
dragons or each other, they could define
their beings as men?

---obligation is still there.
---responsibility is more. beside job, he has to cook his own food, do his own laundry, clean his own house and take care other people's kids...and still be a physical man.


If indeed women are no different
from men it just then becomes what body
you chose to have sex with.

-no. even that responsibility that some men want to shoulder.

there is not much difference between women and man(to me it is a laughable but true situation). all the organ transplant, the artificial organs, the clones .if one day, a human clone is made..then forever gone your last noun.

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


153 posted 06-12-2007 02:12 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

quote:
Has the idea that women
are no different from men
done in general
more harm or good?


Who believes women are no different from men?

I like being different, not just from men but from anyone else on the planet.
So saith my DNA.

I believe the applicable word here is "better."

Women are no better at being human than men
and men are no better at being human than women.
It takes everybody to make a world. Even fruits.

That's sort of why we enjoy the implications of equal rights. The private sectors still speak loudly for themselves.

Men let us believe we have equal rights, on paper, and women let men believe we actually believe what's written. That's okay. We're making headway on the NASDAQ, baby, and it ain't Barbie. "Biotechniciennes" are my heroines. Oh Gawd. Now they'll come out with Biotech Barbie.

quote:
Did women's liberation
in fact free men
of any sense of duty,
responsibility or obligation


Same question, same answer.
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001469-2.html

I beg you to think of your question. Freedom from oppression really does upset those that depend heavily on slave production. What kind of a man with any sense of duty, respect, responsibility, obligation, or any kind of honor would allow the oppression of another in good conscience? The Tyrants being discussed in Brad's other thread.

Perhaps someone in a drunken-vampirical state could justify why one human is less human compared to him/herself, but I couldn't/wouldn't call that person honorable.

quote:
by which, as opposed to
power, confrontations with danger, killing
dragons or each other, they could define
their beings as men?


That defines Men?

Your questions are delightfully plagued, (dragons, et alii) with old adage from a time when most men had rites of passage from the shadows of their fathers, through the keen eyes of the community, with bare-handed work or hard honest management of the family business. War aside; men were as good as their word. The apron strings were cut, not by the mothers but by the sons. This was all-important to them. Can we say this is so now?

How did women do that all by themselves?

Many young men/women are sitting at home today at 25+, playing video games and plotting their next gathering of peers with their parent’s money. This could include an all night jam session with WHAZUPBI*ATCHES or being in an episode of Girls Gone Wild. Then again it could be a chess game at the civic center? Who knows?
  
Granted: The Feminist movement moved through and with any movement things can get constipated or run off…topic? I never trust anyone who screams out who they are for they are not convinced. I don't support many of their views because they are demeaning to men. I happen to love the way I was conceived.

It's not like women have had forever to try and get it right. We're still trying to learn how to learn and engage with others what we've learned. Take this forum as an example. How many women do you see posting? Could it be because it's philosophy and women shy away from critical thinking due to critical reception? It's easier just to remain quiet, make nice, and play purty or get a sugar daddy so we never have to think about anything beyond hair & tan appts. again. Not my call.

I say blast it all. It's easy to criticize, but to encourage, explore, build bridges? Even in the archives & annals of philosophy, men might be ashamed at having so much freedom all this time and doing nothing with it besides remodeling walls. We should help each other tear them down for good, for the good of all, not just one or the other.

I don't support or buy into personas who flaunt their hoohaas across the media as if it's something the world wants to see. I don't blame a certain party for it either. The media presents. People buy. If no one's buying. Hmm. The persona becomes a washed-up hoohaa fiddler without a song or dance. After a while, people might have a renewed appreciation for the Botticelli's and Michelangelo's of the world.

What you've already said is important:

quote:
Men can't ultimately "fix" this problem. Only women can. I'm starting to think that the objectification of women in the media can only be "blamed" on the women in the media.


Some women are doing exactly what they think men want. If they are wrong, how many men will stand up and say, "That's not what I want."

quote:
Also as you say women need to accept some responsibility. I don't think we'll be able to respect others until we respect ourselves.


Responsibility and respect is a definite issue. What Ron stated earlier about brick terms "you don't get to set those," on what's morally right, correct, universally applicable, etc. And I'm not trying to pass judgment on anyone's aspirations in life, but when others are hurt by the images projected, it's time to look into what's going on. I personally feel it boils down to some type of competition. Women are competing, no holds barred, with each other.

quote:
symbols are not "agents" of active life, conciousness, choice, or action.  They are just tokens used to refer to things.


I believe you, but some young women truly do want to go to Hollywood and become sex symbols. Period.
They will surgically alter their figures and faces specifically to fit the mold. It is their goal and their dream. Why? I have no say. Just as they have no say over my goals and dreams.

quote:
Isn't it true that Maud Gonne caused Yeats much frustration in her resistance to his illicit sexual advances?


Very clever. Pursuit, again. Dream on dreams. He wanted her no matter what she did, who she was with or where she was in life. Though if she’d given in? The poetry that would not have been written.

I once heard some guy on TV stating something along the lines of: "Women rule sexual tension." "Men set the standards of Romance."

Does anyone feel there is any truth or strategy to this?
lightkeeper
Member
since 09-13-2006
Posts 100
pluto


154 posted 06-24-2007 07:20 AM       View Profile for lightkeeper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for lightkeeper

We as women are selfless ..... we give with entirety ourselves.... But we do this by choice and of free will..... so somewhere down the road in our lives.. who can we blame .... what in general happens to us ..we allow. When we feel our heart has been broken... we by choice allowed for someone to hurt us... when a man or people take us for granted ... we have allowed them to do that and on many occasion allow it to continue... Why do we allow this and these things to happen time and time again ?... should we build a wall around our hearts.... should we then cast our hearts of  stone ?only WE deep down know WHY.... but what is truely beautiful ... is that by free will we choose to experience these feelings.... happiness,sadness,love,hate... but without them we would not know the difference .. we would not know the feelings... we would not know what we like or what we dont like.... these feelings come from the same source.. they are emotions... that distinguish the difference between life and death... Personally i have no regrets for my experiences, and the  emotions i have felt and still do feel because i choose to of free will ... They are a clear indication that tell me I AM ALIVE and when i die .. i shall do so knowing i truely LIVED :O)  Peace and love
   BernadetteXXX
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


155 posted 06-24-2007 11:29 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

quote:
Some women are doing exactly what they think men want. If they are wrong, how many men will stand up and say, "That's not what I want."



That is not what I want.

“Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.”

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


156 posted 06-24-2007 02:40 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

quote:
We as women are selfless ..... we give with entirety ourselves....


No offense lightkeeper, but this is the type of attitude I can't stand. Not all women are selfless and totally giving and angels. I have known some very selfish, wicked and downright cruel women in my life. I've known more men that meet that description (most of the men I'm related to) but that doesn't erase the women I've known like that. You can't just pick a gender to be the morally superior faction and the victims because no matter what, both are human. And humans aren't perfect and too far from it.

And it's not just women that get hurt and get their "hearts broken." Men have had their fair share of problems as well. Everybody inflicts pain and gets hurt once or twice in their life. Believe me.

quote:
is that by free will we choose to experience these feelings.... happiness,sadness,love,hate


Without these, we wouldn't be human; we'd be plaster.

Have a good one...   Ed

“Well all the apostles, they’re sittin’ on the swings, sayin’ I’d sell off my savior for a set of new rings.”

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


157 posted 06-24-2007 03:42 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

smiles.




Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


158 posted 06-24-2007 05:14 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


I think women far more readily understand
vulnerability, (which every woman has no choice
to experience), to mortal reality than do men, so that in
their lives there is a greater need to believe
in something beyond themselves.  I’m not saying
they are more fortunate as a consequence, but I
will not deny the impact and the difference.


.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


159 posted 06-24-2007 05:44 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Why?  

How do you attribute "more" or "less" understanding to a group based on its gender?  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


160 posted 06-25-2007 03:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"vulnerability, (which every woman has no choice
to experience), to mortal reality "


.
Drauntz
Member Elite
since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


161 posted 06-25-2007 06:35 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz


agree!

[This message has been edited by Drauntz (06-25-2007 10:44 PM).]

sullivanthepoet.com
Member
since 06-28-2007
Posts 154
Devon, England


162 posted 07-02-2007 04:11 PM       View Profile for sullivanthepoet.com   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit sullivanthepoet.com's Home Page   View IP for sullivanthepoet.com

  As a man... There is vulbnerability in all men. Some men bury it in the inner graveyard that is their libido - others confront it - none of them are comfortable with it.

  It is beaten from them from birth by their fathers as an unmanly weakness; and beaten from them, in word and deed, by their mothers who see it, perhaps more accurately,  as a dangerous strength.

  Its perceived absence has become an excuse for women to despise and dismiss a man as a 'neanderthal' its perceived manifestation has become an excuse to despise and dismiss a man as being emotionally 'needy'...

  Woman demands of man that he be what she needs him to be, regardless of his character, because she holds all the biological cards; while demanding in return that he accept her for whatever she is... fair or foul without fear or favour.

  Thus man has become what woman, in all her guises, has made him. If you care little for the result, then perhaps you should have spent more time heeding your own workmanship?

   When will men and women learn to play to each other's strengths and compensate for each other's weaknesses; To reach for the stars instead of eternally arguing whether the pair is taller with the man stood on the woman's shoulders or the woman on the man's?
  
  Or is it easier for woman to blame man for all of her ills? To abdicate responsibility for her life so that she can be eternally the martyr and man eternally the villain. Is that bravery or the worst form of cowardice?

"Live free in the world and owe allegiance to no man"

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


163 posted 07-04-2007 06:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


In the context of the title subject,
what defines the presence of “grace”?
What is there in its absence?


.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


164 posted 07-04-2007 11:50 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Grace is the kindness in their thews
Forsooth, without it, they be shrews!
Drauntz
Member Elite
since 03-16-2007
Posts 2907
Los Angeles California


165 posted 07-05-2007 05:11 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Dear Sir Yi Huan,

Grace is a social label.(from others) an object can be a graceful subject.  A tool can be graceful too.

[This message has been edited by Drauntz (07-05-2007 07:04 PM).]

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


166 posted 07-06-2007 10:22 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

quote:
In the context of the title subject,
what defines the presence of “grace”?


"How well we rise after falling."

quote:
What is there in its absence?


Someone with a camera.

Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


167 posted 07-06-2007 12:39 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Reg, you slay me!

In answer to the original question by Juju.  If you are asking scientifically - yes, I am an object according to physics, as I am definitely a collection of masses         In this Philosophy Forum according to definition, I am an object as well defined as an entity, or being.

In real life, let anyone treat me like an object and I will simply deck them!     There are exceptions of course, so if it works to my advantage to let a man "think" I am his object, then I let him "think" I am a very graceful object!    

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Are women objects?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors