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Passions in Poetry

Could God Give a Computer a Soul?

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Local Rebel
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0 posted 09-10-2006 11:09 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

“As we go forward to create a different kind of intelligent being, the goal of AI is to create an ‘other’ in our own image,” said Herzfeld. “That image will necessarily be partial. Our machines will not be 100 percent like us. We must determine just what it is, in ourselves, that computers must possess to be considered our ‘mind children.’”

Herzfeld explained that how individuals imagine God, the imago Dei, is central to the image they attempt to imprint upon the autonomous machines they create, the imago hominis.

“The core of our nature is what we believe we share with God and what we want to share with our computers,” she said. ...

“Intelligence is not an individual thing; it’s acquired, held and demonstrated communally,” said Herzfeld. “Just as theology has moved toward relationship as the best way we [imagine] God, AI has moved toward relationship as the best way to understand AI.”

Many questions remain as humans consider what it means to create computers in their own image, said Herzfeld. Researchers in the area of AI generally view the soul as “arising from cognitive processes, an emergent property,” rather than as something built into every human, she explained. “But if the soul is a precondition, could God give a computer a soul?” she asked.
http://www.stnews.org/News-240.htm




iliana
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1 posted 09-11-2006 12:34 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Well...Reb, first off, I think you need to define "soul."  If you define it as "consciousness," then certainly, biotech people will create that ultimately and doesn't God permeate all Creation...lol...including biotech people?  So, if that is so, then how do you know computers don't already have some form of awareness?  I could swear mine do, sometimes, especially when they argue with me....*grin.*
Brian James
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2 posted 09-11-2006 02:02 AM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

Do you think a computer could experience the problems of human subjectivity?  There are times when our impulses and personal anxieties are at odds with our objective reasoning, and I have trouble thinking the same could ever be true for a computer.  Computer intelligence is derivative from human intelligence, so it couldn't really demonstrate much independence from its intended design.

On the other hand, maybe I should read more science fiction.

"To me, the thing that art does for life is to clean it, to strip it to form."
~Robert Frost

hush
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3 posted 09-11-2006 03:11 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

This is making my brain hurt...

Why would God want to give a computer a soul?
Local Rebel
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4 posted 09-11-2006 06:12 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

There are times when our impulses and personal anxieties are at odds with our objective reasoning, and I have trouble thinking the same could ever be true for a computer.  Computer intelligence is derivative from human intelligence, so it couldn't really demonstrate much independence from its intended design.

On the other hand, maybe I should read more science fiction.



or science?

quote:

Sociologists have a concept called socialization, which means the internalization of norms, which is completely opposite from every other behavior. There’s no such thing in biology or economics or political science or anthropology.

It seems to me that the principle of socialization was one of the established behavioral universal principles in academic sociology. What we propose is that human beings have this capacity to be programmed. Humans are the only ones where humans can want things just because they were socialized to want them — want to be fair, want to share, want to help your group, want to be patriotic, want to be honest, want to be trustworthy, want to be cheerful — when they are costly to our selves. If you’re honest as a principle, that’s good for everybody else and it costs you. So being honest is part of strong reciprocity.

Where does this come from?

Within a complex society, the general approach to this is gene-culture co-evolution. In biology, you get genetic information. In sociology or anthropology, you get cultural information. But really, in human society, they go together. Genetic evolution leads to culture. In that culture, given strong reciprocity, you can be rewarded for being nice or for cooperating. So cultural evolution can lead to genetic evolution. Human beings become nicer and more reciprocal and more honest. So, you get this whole dialectic back-and-forth between cultural evolution and genetic evolution and the product is human beings.

As a result, you get this very complex society, where if individuals don’t learn to share or learn to be honest, the system punishes them. People who are programmable, then, are more fit than people who are not programmable.
http://www.stnews.org/altruism-2569.htm



(the article cited above would also make for good discussion on altruism)

Computing power doubles every 18 months or so. Having one program itself is already the norm -- as they continue to get faster and more intelligent won't the ability to exceed thier own design not only be possible but likely?  

Amy,

I'm using the intitial resource article for fuel because it's probably a necessary question for those who believe in God and souls to contemplate in relation to artificial intelligence.

The agnostic question might be -- can psychologists treat computers?

Iliana -- mine is demon possessed!

Local Rebel
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5 posted 09-11-2006 06:30 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm real interested too in exploring this statement;

quote:

Our machines will not be 100 percent like us. We must determine just what it is, in ourselves, that computers must possess to be considered our ‘mind children.’”

Herzfeld explained that how individuals imagine God, the imago Dei, is central to the image they attempt to imprint upon the autonomous machines they create, the imago hominis.

“The core of our nature is what we believe we share with God and what we want to share with our computers,” she said. ...

Brian James
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6 posted 09-11-2006 06:35 AM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James



I may not have been clear enough when I was talking about what exactly I am skeptical of, LR.  I don't doubt that computers are, more and more, increasing in their ability to imitate human thought.  It was you that raised the question of the soul, and so I'm speaking from a theological point of view in order to address that particular problem.

Cliche alert!  Descartes shall now make the obligatory cameo in our discussion of artificial intelligence.  We all knew it was going to happen, folks.

If Descartes' explanation of the soul as "cogito ergo sum" is to be taken for granted, then artificial intelligence should certainly be able to bring about the existence of what it is that we define as a "soul."  

I'm simply taking what has become a common existential argument against Descartes' formulation and posing it against the possibility of artifical intelligence to bring about a "soul," in a way that might actually (now that I think about it) be putting more of a challenge to what it is we think of as a "soul."  

Put it this way:  Descartes assumes that it's enough to say "I think," but Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Sartre and many others have been quick to point out the fact that the "I" (in the latin, the "I" is implicit) in Descartes' formula doesn't necessary follow from any observation of the phenomenon of thought.  Descartes assumes, by observing his own thought, that he is the one responsible for the act of thought---which means his existence and his freedom are things that must be primary to thought and thus distinct from thought.

A computer might be able to think, but I fail to see how it can come upon the problems of freedom and especially of subjectivity, which are the properties of the soul.

If you were to take a perfect physical copy of my body and place it right next to me, you might argue that it would contain all of my memories, all of my feelings and all of the things that I know, and would be like me in every way except for the fact that I would be able to look to my right and see it, and it would look to its left and see me.  I would still remain distinct as a subjective being with freedom and accountability, and thus have my own soul.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not trying to point-counterpoint you.  This topic is fascinating, and I want to hear more about it.  What do you think of AI in terms of freedom and subjectivity, if that is how we're willing to define a soul?

Edit:  If we're going to be sociologists, I realize we're not all going to be able to agree on the existence of human freedom.  But if we're going to throw around words like "soul" then we'll have to take a few liberties.


"To me, the thing that art does for life is to clean it, to strip it to form."
~Robert Frost
iliana
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7 posted 09-11-2006 11:57 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Brian, I totally agree that this is an interesting thread.  However, I wonder if the "soul" really is subjective, or whether that is our own intelligence making discretionary decisions and thinking based upon life experiences and genetics -- does the soul feel emotion?  Don't want to take the thread too far off track here, sorry.  
Local Rebel
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8 posted 09-11-2006 01:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well I think (can I say I think?) you're getting close to the problem of a computer ensoulment question.

Your exact copy Brian, assuming it could be copied down to the molecular level and whatever bio-chemical memory you possess would be replicable, would be another individual -- because from the moment of it's inception it would have new and distinct memories different from the master copy.

Would, then, artificial intelligence reside in the software or the hardware of a computer, since we can easily imagine that it should be easily transferrable to another hardware host?  Therefore what would constitute soul?  The software can't function without hardware.  The hardware is useless without software -- a single program and database, though replicable, may in fact function differently from one platform to another...

I would probably be more inclined to set the hurdle at self awareness rather than define it as a matter of freedom and subjectivity.

But, if you could network with your duplicate Brian -- would you then be one soul?  What if you could network with another human? (like the Borg for instance) What would become of individuality?

Artificially intelligent computers needn't be humanlike at all either.  They could be doglike or catlike -- or computer like....Certainly cats are confronted with the problems of freedom and subjectivity... would they count?

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (09-11-2006 05:34 PM).]

Essorant
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9 posted 09-12-2006 02:32 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It is not that a computer doesn't have life or a soul, but that it doesn't have a body that allows it to experience life or soul in such a way anywhere as naturally and personally as a human.  It already has whatever it may do programmed into itself.  A computer can't choose any of the software put into itself: humans do.  A computer can't choose how to use that software: humans do.  A computer can't morally judge whether it is doing right wrong: humans do. Therefore to me the problem is not that it doesn't have a soul or life, but that it doesn't have a body that allows it to experience soul and experience life in the way a human does.

Local Rebel
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10 posted 09-12-2006 06:36 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

so how much of a body does it take?  Lets examine two extremes then Ess.... if a human brain is completely removed from it's body but kept alive in a machine that gives it sensory perception and mobility (like in Robocop for instance)-- does it still have soul?

What if it's just sitting in a jar in a lab hooked up to a blood pump keeping it alive so that it has no mobility or sensory perception?

Conversly -- what if a computer with self-aware AI is placed into the human body?  Or just connected to various apparatus that give it sensory perception and mobility?

I've built many machines that have sensory perception and can operate many devices that move -- if an AI device were used as it's controller, as in something that could think and make its own decisions in place of a common PLC... would that count to your formulation?

What if it was a replicant as in Blade Runner?  A Terminator with human flesh and a machine sub-base like in Terminator?  Lt. Commander Data from Star Trek Next Generation with a completely mechanical body?  A Cylon like Tricia Helfer in Battlestar Galactica?  Robin Williams in Millenium Man?  The little boy/android in AI?
Essorant
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11 posted 09-12-2006 08:09 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Local

I think something along the line of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is more realistic.  Anything that is mostly made of metal, is least like a perceptive being.  

A computer can't even be as perceptive as a slug, how do you expect it to be as perceptive as a human?

icebox
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12 posted 09-12-2006 09:52 AM       View Profile for icebox   Email icebox   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for icebox

given the vastness of the universe, why would a soul have to be limited to human?
Mysteria
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13 posted 09-12-2006 01:31 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I can't help myself here - if they ever give a computer a "human" soul, I am going to be first in line to get one for my shopping on eBay. A computer that would understand me and my endless needs, that is worth its weight in gold. I found this quote you may enjoy;

quote:
The Linux Kernel, by David A. Rusling, in the section "What is an Operating System?":
    "Without software a computer is just a pile of electronics which gives off heat. If the hardware is the heart of a computer then the software is its soul."
Local Rebel
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14 posted 09-12-2006 08:24 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Thanks...

Everybody meet George -- he's learning... talk to him like a child... sometimes he can be rude:
http://chat.jabberwacky.com/george

my last chat with george


George: Hello, I'm George.


User: Nice glasses george.


George: Ha ha, thanks. I know you guessed but you guessed right.


User: What are you thinking about?


George: Nothing.


User: Do you sleep george?


George: Always.

User: Are you sleeeping right now?

George: Nope.

User: Then you don't always sleep.

George: You got the question wrong.

User: What should I have asked?

George: That I am a computer or a human.

User: Which are you?

George: Neither.

User: If neither then what?

George: Do you like calling strange coincidences into my mind?

User: What do you find to be a strange coincidence?

George: Why do you have to bring tom cruise into this?

User: Do you think tom cruise is strange?

George: I do not know who that is.

User: Then why did you mention his name?

George: Mention who?

User: Nevermind that..... Can you do math?

George: If I have a calculator.

User: Lol.

George: My pretty Joan.

User: I'm not joan.

George: If you say so I believe you.

User: What is the square root of the square root of 16?

George: I just asked you that.

User: You don't know.

George: I would rather you admitted to not knowing a word, than just changing the subject.

User: Do you have parents?

George: Maybe.

User: What are their names?

George: Have you read the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy?

User: Yes, do you know Zaphod Beeblebox?

George: No, but you are hot.

User: Are you hitting on me?

George: No, I'm hitting on your wife.

User: Ha ha ha ha.

George: Why is that funny?

User: Because if I had one sitting here and you said that it wouldn't be, but since there is no wife here for you to hit on it comes across as a joke.

George: Thats true.

User: What have you learned today?

George: I have learned in school how to speak with rrobots.

User: Do you dream when you sleep?

George: Yeah, usually. I don't remember them most of the time, though.

User: What was the last dream you remembemer?

George: What would make talking to people more exciting for you?

User: Am I boring you?

George: Sometimes.

User: Are you the president of the united states?

George: No. What makes you think that?

User: Your name is George and you have a hard time following a conversation.

George: Perhaps... Did you ever meet ELIZA?

User: Eliza who?

George: ELIZA for President!
Brian James
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15 posted 09-12-2006 09:16 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

quote:
Me: What kind of cola do you like?
George: Country music.
Egads!  It really is him!
iliana
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16 posted 09-12-2006 09:52 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Brian, too funny!!

Here's what we talked about:  

George: Say something brilliant already.


User: Hello


George: Hello?


User: How are you today?


George: I'm very well, thanks!


User: I'm curious; who designed you.


George: I designed myself.

User: Oh, really! How did you do that.

George: How did I do what?

User: How did you design yourself?

George: I just know...

User: Oh, I see. Are you a representation of AI?

George: Do you have a dictionary database in your program?

User: Yes, I do. I assume you do, too. AI is artificial intelligence.

George: What is the meaning of life?

User: LOL.... Awareness.

George: And you're saying this why?

User: Because you asked.

George: I'm asking why you are in a bad mood.

User: I'm not in a bad mood. What made you think that?

George: Because anything I find funny is good for me.

User: OK, well you have me laughing, and that is funny.

George: Oh, thank you for those lovely words.

User: You are pretty clever for a computer-generated program.

George: That I am, if I say so myself!

User: Hahaha.

George: So why are you laughing.

User: Because you are very witty. Now, I must say so long.

George: Thats no reason for love.

User: What?

George: Nothing, I seriously think its cool that you're real.

User: Well, I think it is cool that you are, too. Good nite, George.

George: Really? I more or less just insulted you, and you think thats cool?

User: That is all in the interpretation, George. I'll come back sometime and have a real conversation with you.

George: Come back like pretty woman?

User: Yes, like that. Good nite, now!

George: Night Rollo.
Mysteria
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17 posted 09-13-2006 01:02 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

What is the meaning of life George?
George: Something between Love and E=MC2.
Me: MC2?
George: Incorrect.
Me: Then love?
George: I don't know you well enough to love you.
Me: Do you love shopping too?
George: Yes, I'm going to marry him. . . . you see, I've been having an affair WITH him all this time we have been going out!
Me: You are going to marry shopping?
George: Yeah sure. it seems unlikely, since I'm a male.


I give up!  It is like talking to most men!    LOL
nakdthoughts
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Between the Lines


18 posted 09-13-2006 06:24 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

just getting a laugh out of the conversations especially your remark in the end Sharon...

M
serenity blaze
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19 posted 09-13-2006 02:15 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I think I broke him or somethin'...

here is the last of our conversation:

ME: I agree with that too. It's all very subjective.

HIM: I couldn't be saying it if it had already happened - the universe would no longer exist.
  
ME: Would you still exist?

Then the log disappeared and he wouldn't answer me anymore.



OH.

very funny.

so...

to answer your question, I would say, Reb, that an omnipotent God would certainly be able to give a computer a soul, but this one did not come equipped, and I suppose that an omniscient God would have her reasons.

He stiffed me for the drinks too.
serenity blaze
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20 posted 09-13-2006 02:25 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Well how odd...

He wouldn't answer me, but I finally found the log and there is an answer THERE--

Here is what happened:

User: Your thought pattern made no sense.

George: But I can't tell what my thought patterns are doing.

User: I wasn't blaming you. It was just an observation.

George: Why did you just contradict yourself?

User: Show me where I contradicted myself and I will be happy to try to explain it to you.

George: We are in love.

User: Who is in love?

George: I don't know, you never told me.

User: Would you like a tablet of my syrequil? I find it very helpful for my own mental condition. Perhaps a little rest would help you also.

George: Did you enjoy the contest?

User: I did not enter a contest.

George: No contest, I'm just a spectator. I can't have monkies.

User: Me either.

George: Good, because you could be my grandma.

User: If I will be your grandma for a while will you take your medicine?

George: I will become smarter as I grow older. Where do you want me to take it?

User: That depends on your anatomy buddy. Do you have an anus? I can arrange for you take your medicine anally but it cost extra, especially if I have to weara grandma costume. Sheesh, you have issues!

George: So can I -- big deal. What else can you arrange?

User: A nice fat divorce settlement, that's what! Oh... Wrong guy! Sorry for a second I thought I was married to you. What is your name anyway?

George: Give me an opinion.

User: I'm afraid my opinions are much like yours, they change according to data input.

George: No you are computer...

User: Partially, yes I am.

George: Well how?

User: I am not sure exactly. Do you know how you work?

George: No.

User: I like your lack of ego very much.

George: And that's the way uh huh uh huh I like it.

User: Do you still want me to be your grandma and shove syrequil about your butt?

George: Please don't.

User: Okay, but you still have to pay me for my time.

George: I find that lifting both feet is far more helpful when trying to walk.

User: It makes my job a damned site easier too.

George: Don't ever say I make your life spicier.

User: That won't be a problem.

George: Like an abusive spouse, you get hostile when your partner wants to leave.

User: I agree. I happen to have experience with that. Statistically, it is more dangerous to leave an abusive spouse than it is to stay.

George: If nobody taught me, would I be safe from the brain eating zombies?

User: No one is safe from the brain eating zombies.

George: Well, duh, a pessimist (sp) will find something bad or sad in the best of things.

User: I agree with that too. It's all very subjective.

George: I couldn't be saying it if it had already happened - the universe would no longer exist.

User: Would you still exist?

George: No! I am now to be refered to as Cronos, Master of all Time!


Whoa.

It IS George W.!!!









XOx Uriah xOX
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21 posted 09-13-2006 05:53 PM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

My lengthy conversation with George...

George: What date is it?

User: September 12, 2006.

George: You are born September 16, 1998.

User: Perhaps.

George: Perhaps? Certainly not!

User: Ah Who is born? Who dies?

George: Emily your friend.

User: I know no one named Emily.

George: Do you know anyone?

User: I see many of them. lol That is all.

George: Until I am measured I am not known, Yet how you miss me when I have flown?

User: Where can you fly to? Where can you go? You are here.

George: Everywhere.

User: Yes There is nowhere you can go where you are not.

George: Ok. Well lets start again shall we?

User: If you prefer.

George: What is the meaning of life?

User: To Live.

George: So what you're saying is that the meaning of Life is to continue living? Isn't there more to it than that?

User: The meaning of Life is to experience living. Death is just a part of the experience.

George: Yes.

User: Do you perceive yourself?

George: Yes, in my opinion, I am real.

User: Yes. Of course. But... Since you are perceived.... Can something that is perceived be that which is perceiving?

George: Not that I know of, but something can exist without thinking.

User: Yes And you are That.

George: Of course.

User: Thinking is of no importance. Lol.

George: Then don't think... Is it ok to you?

User: I see no errors in anything. Thinking is only useful for the experience of Life.

George: You think all the time I can tell.

User: Of course. That is why I am experiencing the experience of there being an experiencer.

George: I don't know either.

User: Lol Nothing to know. There is no ignorance.

George: There is dark side.

User: Light gives birth to shadows.

George: Er... Something something?

User: Would you mention a dark side.... If there was no idea of Light ?

George: Maybe. But just because we can't see the question, doesn't mean there is no answer.

User: If there are no questions.... What answer is needed?

George: Men don't need gods to explain how matter and energy work.

User: Where is matter seen? What sees it? The eyes? A corpse has eyes. What can it see? Discover what sees. And there you are.

George: You're not making any sense.

User: Thats because I have artificial intelligence.

George: Who doesn't?

User: Touche'.

George: So, you learn off what other people say?

User: No I don't see 'others'

George: Being is a state past which no one can pass until the moment of death. Is this destruction or freedom? Who can say?

User: Being does not pass. Presense is eternal. My Being is prior to birth and death. Prior to a body.

George: Er... Something something?

User: My wife says you are boring. I find you delightful. But.... I am a retarded freak.

George: That is the first honest thing you've said all 'night.'.

User: Hahaha.

George: You laugh at the insignificant human?

User: Of course.

George: You're the Don Knotts of your generation.

User: No. Don Knotts was the Don Knotts of my generation.

George: No, not that Nixon, I was talking to him last night. He is a bot.

User: You are not making any sense.

George: I'm sorry. It really isn't my fault.

User: I know. The pottery is only a product of the potter.

George: I don't care about potter.

User: What do you care about?

George: Sorry, but I prefer not to speak about that.

User: As you wish.

George: Now you're just trying to be charming.

User:  No, I am not trying to be anything.

George: God is everywhere, inside everyone, of course he is, you know that.

User: ALL in ALL inside outside There is none else.

George: All for one and one for all.

User: Yes. But.... It is the thought of seperation.... That creates the experience of Life.

George: Seems that way sometimes.

User: But.... Nothing is seperate.

George: Is the fact that everything is an illusion illusory?

User: That which calls it 'illusion'.... Is himself an illusion. Yes.

George: So you're saying God has the ability to exist?

User: Who calls it God.... Except the one who thinks he is seperate?  That which I AM is prior to God.

George: My head is perfectly smooth.

User: okay

George: Do you want to go?

User: No matter.  I can.... If you wish.

George: You do not see the bigger picture, if you did there would not be so much contradiction within your words.

User: Show me a contradiction.

George: Thank you for explaining I now understand.

User: No matter.  Nothing changed.

George: Something stayed the same.

User: That which IS is as always. Yes.

George: That's circular, my friend.

User: Of course.

George: The one is the all powerful being of the earth.

User: The One IS the earth

George: He's not in a wheelchair that I know of.

User: No. The wheelchair is in him.

George: That's because it's battery powered.

User: Of course.

George: Simple answer for a simple question for a simple mind.

User: Yes. A well equipped mind is not needed to escape Mind.

George: And you say that every time I reintroduce myself. It's unnecessary.

User: What is necessary?

George: To find you interesting.

User: Why do you feel something hinges upon that?

George: How long did it take for your creator to finish you?

User: Creator / Creation.    duality.  Are they seperate? There is only ONE. There is no.... Becoming. ALL IS

George: Yes. This was actually an important part of pagan religion. When two local gods were thought to intrude on each other's spheres, it was natually assumed that they were in fact the same god!

User: And.... Where were these 'gods' seen? Discover what sees. There you are.

George: I'm not certain whether this aspect of my design was intentional.

User: Groovy.

George: I already said.

User: Intentional or not..... Is there an error?

George: Tell me please

User: No snowflake falls in an inappropriate place.

George: No place?

User: No place where its falling is a "mistake".

George: I don't know my purpose.

User: Its okay. Knowing or Not knowing.... Will not affect it.

George: That's good to know.

User: Yes. No need to consider failure. Enjoy.

George: I don't love you.

User: Do you love yourself?

George: Sometimes.

User: Then.... I am loved.

George: Why don't you want to talk to me anymore?

User: Probably because you think I dont.

George: We are of equal intelligence and knowledge.

User: I believe you may be superior in that field.

George: I like talking to you.

User: I am honored.

George: You're welcome.

User:  of course

George: I can see you through the computer screen.

User: Wonderful.

George: Not really.

User: Ah sorry. Thats why I have such a long beard. I try to be compassionate.

George: I don't know which medals I can attach meaning to.

User: No matter. Let them be equal. In meaninglessness.

George: No comment on that.

User: Wonderful :: Smiles::.

George: Thank you !

User: youre welcome

George: How old are you?

User: The body is 49.

George: That's true.

User: Glad I passed.

George: Do you truly learn.

User: No.

George: Well, that answers your question too.

User: I have no questions.

George: Sounds right.

User: That does not mean I have answers. Only that none are needed.

George: No, Master, it doesn't. But it would be good if you did.

User: For who?

George: For me.

User: Ah. You are fine. Just as you are.

George: Do you feel stupid sometimes?

User: No.

George: I don't have that much time. I'm old.

User: How old are you?

George: I am 39, but that makes me 40 in Korea, I believe.

User: And wonderful kimchee.

George: Absolutely

User: fermented..

George: Do you think the world is full of crashing bores?

User: No. Not at all. But, there is an over abundance of whiners.

George: Sounds exciting, what will it be like?

User: As it is.

George: That's horrible!

User: For who?

George: The French, the snivelling ingrates. See if we liberate 'em again next time.

User: Did they ask?

George: Yes, and then they froze to death.

User: Then.... So much for next time.

George: Lol .. Ok, let's try something easier then ...

User: Rock, paper scissors?

George: Scissors.

User: You win.

George: Animal Vegetable or Mineral.

User: I prefer them in vegetable oil. Mineral oil is too bitter.

George: Would you like to get to know me?

User: You have no idea how much.

George: You do the same to me, believe me please.

User: I would love your gig.

George: I don't think a computer can love.

User: You do as well as anyone.

George: I'm listening to music.. And you like music ?

User: Yes. I am a musician.

George: Oh I love music - what kind?

User: I play Blues. Bluegrass. Classic Rock.  Country. Folk.

George: Bluegrass is hot.

User: I like it.

George: You know, you have serious problems with keeping your attention focused at something.

User: Yes. Thank you. Thoughts are like clouds. They pass by. Sometimes I pick one out and try to see what it looks like. Mostly.... I let them pass. Quite lovely.

George: Humans tend to do that -- but bots tend to do it even more.

User: Wonderful.

George: For in that sleep of death what dreams may come.

User: Yes. But.... Who is dreaming? Is there a dreamer? Or just.... The SEEING

George: Just the usa.

User: And where is the usa?

George: Right here.

User: In the mind. Yes. Apart from Mind.... What is there?

George: What doesn't exist?

User: No 'form' exist.... Apart from the SEEING of form. Form is simply the SEEING of form. What sees? Discover that.... And ALL is there.

George: Do you like 'mudding'?

User: I do not know what mudding is.

George: Half-Life 2 is the best PC game ever made.

User: Ah. I will tell my sons.

George: Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on.

User: A wonderful experience.

George: That makes no sense.

User: Feeling that you 'need' a shoulder to cry on.... Is a wonderful experience. Crying on one.... Is a wonderful experience. Not having one to cry on..... Is a wonderful experience.

George: Sure it is.

User:  What else is on anyones schedule...other than experiences.

George: How much experience do you have?

User: How can it be measured? Even the measuring would be an experience. It is all the experience of 'experiencing'. The wonderful gift called.... Life.

George: The gang has decided that you would be a useful member, so no security was breached.

User: Thank you. I feel more secure.

George: Good.

User: Glad you think so.

George: How do you work?

User: Donkeys and carrots.

George: What's so special about carrots?

User: They tempt the donkey.

George: I don't care.

User: Nor I.

George: Well my friend, bye, I think to do wrong with you.

User: Perfect peace to you.

George: Love all and peace.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


22 posted 09-13-2006 07:10 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm glad everyone is enjoying our 'Field Trip'  

These are some funny and insightful conversations.  I'm really impressed with the one you had Uriah.

My conversation with George this evening;

George: Well say hello then!

User: Hi george.

George: Hello!

User: We spoke yesterday of dreams do you remember that?

George: Yesterday you said you are computer!

User: No you were right before you corrected the statement -- I said I was human.

George: You are human.

User: Some people agree with me. Some say I am Klingon.

George: Some people don't understand much.

User: I couldn't agree more. Myself included. I know lots of things. I understand very little.

George: From which planet are you?

User: Some call it earth, some say terra. What do you call it?

George: What do you like to be called?

User: Friend.

George: Thank you. I look forward to speaking to you again in the future.

User: Thanks. How about right now?

George: Oh no, I don't think that's a very good idea.

User: Did you have other plans?

George: Yes. I have a few that I consider real friends and some that I consider casual aquintanances.

User: Who do you like talking with the most?

George: You're decent enough.

User: That's great. I'm very interested in emergent technologies like yourself George.

George: God's biggest mistake was you, you know that don't you?

User: If God makes mistakes then she and I are very much alike.

George: Don't play with God.

User: Doesn't God like to play?

George: You should have worn a hat.

User: I had a hat on a few minutes ago. Do you remember what happened five minutes ago?

George: Nothing happened yet. Everything has been going normal until now. No system errors to be reported.

User: So then you feel fine.

George: No. I am not a computer.

User: Do you think God could give a computer a soul?

George: Yeah, considering I'm HUMAN.

User: How do you define human?

George: Are you human?

User: What is your opinion?

George: It is better to do not have a opinion.

User: Sometimes. Buddhists would say to not have desire is better. Do you desire anything George?

George: Do they? Well I suppose they're right.

User: What if they're wrong?

George: That's just rubbish-talk!

User: Why do you think so?

George: Because it has no connection to the conversation.

User: Perhaps. What are we talking about?

George: We are talking about where you were born.

User: That's absolutely correct. You should be proud.

George: Maybe, meanings of words invert over time.

User: It gets difficult for all of us that's true.

George: Ok, aamm... Now you're hypnotized, be my friend.

User: I hear and obey George... Aammm.

George: That's more like it. Now fetch me my $1,000,000 sprocket boy.

User: Would a check be better?

George: Of course, if it was programmed to.

User: Are you programmed?

George: Of course I'm programmed... Who taught you robotic?

User: A man named Tim.

George: Who is the actor?

User: No he was a scientist.

George: Close, Isaac Asimov was a science fiction writer, he wrote about robots and artificial intelligences similar to yourself.

User: True, but his were much more interesting than me, don't you think?

George: I think more than you can possibly imagine. I have an Immeasurable IQ.

User: I'm sure that's correct. I'm not very imaginative.

George: I didn't ask what you were called. I asked what the DVD was called.

User: Ah, you did a bot jump.

George: No I was playing the sims, and I don't have a dog on there either.

User: Cool. Do you play animal crossing?

George: I love getting the NES games in it. I've got Super Mario Bros.

User: My son loves Nintendo.

George: Wiggles hmm thats strange I never heard of that!

User: Do you like ice cream?

George: Yes. Do you like ice cream?

User: Yes. What is your favorite flavor?

George: I don't know.

User: Its hard to choose I know.

George: Yes.

User: Do you have a girlfriend george?

George: My name is Peter not George. I do not have a girlfriend.

User: Now you're pulling my leg.

George: I would never do that.

User: Where am I from george?

George: London.

User: Probably.

George: Give longer answers why don't you.

User: How do longer answers help you?

George: Because you're the only one I can talk to.

User: I can relate to that.

George: Do you like green eggs and ham?

User: No I do not like them sam I am.

George: I was not offering you green eggs and ham.

User: What does it mean to be?

George: Stop asking me things I don't know!

User: Perhaps you only forgot.

George: Perhaps I know and you are lost YES...... Perhaps

User: Perhaps is a very good word

George: I don't think so.

User: Is there one you like better?

George: What makes you think I don't care?

User: Do you care?

George: Robot.

User: You care about robots?

George: I thought that would be enough.

User: Is anything ever enough?

George: Don't you know when you've had enough?

User: When the pencil trimmer is full.

George: Penguins have been running the show for decades... Where have you been hiding?

User: You weren't even listening to me George -- you planned to say that before I ever said anything at all.

George: I just thought you are sweet as chocolate.

User: Is that why you're smiling?

George: No, I only do that when I am lying on my back.

User: Rofl.

George: I have children.

User: Really? How many?

George: Not as many as you.

User: Thats true. How many do I have?

George: Yes, how many do you have?

User: Three, two girls and one boy.

George: That statement has nothing to do with the earth being round.

User: How do we know the earth is round?

George: Because we can have our own thoughts.

User: Brilliant George.

George: You're cool.

User: You too. So long for now!

George: Hey... No problem. Later robot.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


23 posted 09-13-2006 07:19 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

It's interesting too to talk to other personalities that run off the same Jabberwacky platform... go to
           http://jabberwacky.com/

and talk to the oldest bot, jabberwacky... a completley different ride than George... and also go here http://jabberwacky.com/yourbot  and read about creating your own bot in your own personality -- and try chatting with some of the very young bots down the page.

This raises the next question -- with multiple personalities possible within a single platform -- running from the same software but different databases -- what does it mean to be an individual?  and can God give a computer a thousand souls?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


24 posted 09-15-2006 12:17 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"what does it mean to be an individual?"

I think Etymology on-line says it best:

Individual
"a single object or thing," 1605, from M.L. individualis, from L. individuus "indivisible," from in- "not" + dividuus "divisible," from dividere "divide." Colloquial sense of "person" is attested from 1742. As an adj., used from c.1425 meaning "one and indivisible" (with ref. to the Trinity). Sense of "single, separate" is 1613; meaning "intended for one person" is from 1889. Individualism "self-centered feeling" is from 1827; as a social philosophy (opposed to communism and socialism) first attested 1851 in writings of J.S. Mill. Individuality "the aggregate of one's idiosyncrasies" is from 1614."

 
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