How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 I warned you all...   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

I warned you all...

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


25 posted 08-21-2006 04:22 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim



"How does that follow?

Doesn't your whole premise depend on the assumption that there are two places and that they feel the same?"


Brad, I'm not saying that in my mind florida is two places, I'm suggesting that it's all places. And anything that is said to be all places just doesn't make sense and is impossible (unless you want to call it world). I am not saying florida is all places. I've just been thinking that I don't live anwhere except in my mind. It's a fun thought to think, eh?


Another thing, I'm not totally serious about this. It was just a passing thought I had and I thought it interesting enough to post it. I love how everybody actually discusses things in this forum; it makes me want to post more of my thoughts. Thanks


[Insert quote of wisdom here]
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


26 posted 08-23-2006 10:58 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

LR, I disagree with you.

Yes, pretty much every city, town, and village in America has the same franchises. But culturally, it is so varied... not only from region to region, but from city to city.

I live in Toledo, which is basically a blue-collar union city. The attitude here is one of practicality, without a whole lot of tolerance for the idealism I happen to be known for... y'know, try to understand the terrorists before blowing them up, people are essentially good, etc. A perfect example of our culture here would be an experience I once had... I had shaved my head, and I was at the grocery store, and a woman approached me. She said, "I bet a lot of people stare at you here, but if you went to a big city like Chicago, nobody would give you a second glance." And she was right, at least about Toledoans' reactions (I never got to test out the big-city factor). Racially, there are definitely divisions, but I wouldn't say I know of many places where a black person or Mexican person just couldn't go...

Now, take a trip 45 minutes west to Fayette, and boy, do I ahve a story for you. I was camping with some friends, and my friend and her boyfriend needed condoms. Her boyfriend happens to be Mexican, and while she stayed and helped set up camp, he and I went on a shopping trip into town. Not only were a white girl and Mexican guy given the nastiest of glares, but we were told that condoms were not sold "around here," that we'd have to drive to another town for them... LOL.

But drive 45 minutes north to Ann Arbor, and it's pretty much a liberal paradise... I happen to enjoy all the independently owned shops and ethnic restaurants, as well as walking through the U of M campus... every now and then, the liberal protestors get on my nerves, and even moreso on my signifacantly more conservative boyfriend's nerves...

But I guess my point is that even in the midwest, known for its conservativism, and even among the homogeneous Wal-Mart's, Burger Kings, and BP's, there are significant cultural differences just from town to town, some probably accounted for by the size of the town... and some because of the racial demographics... but everywhere is not the same.

I have not travelled from region to region except on vacation, which is to say, I've never been away from the midwest long enough to immerse myself in another region's culture, but people I know who have have shared stories that indicate to me that different regions of the U.S. have very different cultures.

So while there are some things in common pretty much everywhere that might jog a memory of someplace else, I don't agree that everywhere in America is the same. As far as Florida being a state of mind... I ahve songs, tastes, smels that trigger memories... and maybe since all of your memories are in Florida, that's why you are reminded so strongly of it.

Just a thought.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


27 posted 08-23-2006 05:36 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Sure Amy,

What you're illustrating is that EVEN in the Midwest -- Urban areas are Urban and Rural areas are Rural...

And you'll find that from Tennessee, to Indiana, to Ohio, to North Carolina to Florida to California...

ad nauseum...

the whole 'red state'/'blue state' cultural divide is really more a divide between rural and urban life -- the more Rural a State is the Redder it's going to be and of course the opposite is true -- which is why states with huge urban populations like Mass, NY, Caili, Ill, all tend blue where Kansas and Texas go red...

Until you've traveled enough that when you wake up in the morning you aren't sure where you are -- you won't know what I'm talking about though first hand.

The secondhand stories you get from people who talk about how different things are usually involve people moving from an urban center in one state to a more rural/agrarian setting in another -- but even within just a few miles if you went from downtown Memphis, Tennessee to a rural town like Brownsville -- you would see the same difference.

The accents change -- and in the South there is the REAL cultural divide.

SWEET TEA!!!
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


28 posted 08-23-2006 06:39 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Personally, I think you're both right.

I agree with Amy in that I see a real cultural difference just between me and my nearest neighbor (never mind my Amish neighbors). People are different, though these clearly aren't merely geographical differences and, indeed, I think geography affects people in this country far less than other issues, like education and economic level.

BTW, Reb, Amy's example of Ann Arbor is a good one, I think, because the differences she perceives are not simply attributable to Urban versus Rural. As a college town (and that's subtly different than simply having a college like Lansing does), it is a very different place than nearby Detroit or Lansing. I see that very clearly on a different scale living at one vertex of a small triangle formed with Kalamazoo, home of Western Michigan University, and Battle Creek, where they make a whole lot of cereal. It's less than a forty mile drive from Kellogg's and Post to WMU and Pfizer, centerpiece of a burgeoning bio-tech revolution, but it's almost like crossing a cultural divide.

On the other hand, in spite of that, I also have to agree with Reb. Spend any significant time in a truly different culture, as you might find in a small, impoverished Mexican village just across the border, and the differences in American communities seem to almost vanish. We are much more alike than we are unalike, accents, street language, and priorities notwithstanding.

It sort of makes you wonder, I think.

If we could spend a year on a civilized planet circling Tau Ceti, living perhaps with sentient bugs in their ammonia hive, maybe we could all start to see Mexican immigrants and Islamic fundamentalists as humans not really all that different from any other human. We, too, I think, are much more alike than unalike. Unfortunately, one of the traits we seem to share with them and all other humans is a tendency to focus on the differences instead of the similarities.


Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


29 posted 08-23-2006 07:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Yeah, I think Ann Arbor is a great example of the college town too -- but, that's also going to be portable from one college town to another -- say, Hattiesburg with USM...

even moreso in really small college towns like the one I grew up in... and the college experience itself so portable that a movie like Animal House finds an audience that easily identifies with it...

but this isn't really all that recent a thing either -- we can't really blame it all on television (we have to throw the automobile and other rapid transportation in there)

Last Picture Show, American Grafitti, American Pie, Fast Times at Ridgemont High -- all great examples of Americana.

Wanna bet Sing Sing isn't that much different from Alcatraz too?  

kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


30 posted 08-24-2006 12:51 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I like what you're saying about spending a year on another planet to 'discover' that all humans are alike, Ron, but I don't think we have to go that far. Every big city in the world throws that one up.

In Britain just now, there's a big hoo-ha about Polish immigrants being racist. As most of the immigrants are from rural areas, they have never seen a black person, far less a black doctor, dentist, chef, et al. When arriving in London, for example, they're culturally lost, as there's as many black people as white. I don't think it's difference, per se, it's just ignorance. Over time, the immigrants will come to see difference in colour as nothing more than that.

I've never been to America, but culturally, I don't think there's much difference between New York and London, San Francisco and Barcelona. Why? Because most of the people who make up these big cities are all mostly migrants-whether they've migrated from the countryside within the country, or whether they've migrated from another country...all have gathered in the city for similar reasons.

My ambition is to go to Japan. I think it would feel different there, for although Japan has imported and exported their youth culture (there's no better music scene anywhere in the world than Tokyo), traditionally, they're culturally unique from the west, and that's exciting!

Keeping in mind that, no matter what the differences in culture, everyone in the world feels happiness, sadness, hunger, pain, and everyone in the world fullfils needs similarly-even every city in the world, no matter how different, has been constructed for the same reasons...to maintain the infrastructure of the country's economy.  


Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


31 posted 08-24-2006 05:30 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Edward, I know where you are coming from I have the same problem as I lived in the same area for ages, and now moved and compare every single little thing to my former mountain home, even though I realize it is the same right where I am, and that is what is making me think of my old home.     Hope that made sense?  In otherwords, the same feeling, in a different place, conjures up a similar feeling.

You'll enjoy this conversation in part between Karen (Serenity and me.)

I was online trying to buy a ticket and book a hotel to go to New Orleans and stir up the caldron with Serenity, as it was a year since Katrina and I wanted to surprise her.  

Here is Serenity's approach to promote tourism in New Orleans folks.            

She shouts into the phone, "Not now!"  You can't come NOW...It's hot, sticky, muggy, and the rain just knocked down the 3rd floor of a bank downtown into the second floor.  They are spraying for West Nile and I told the kids if it's hot, sticky, raining, and a plane flys by, please run home.   Now that sounded positive yes?  Followed by ...
her saying, "Maybe November's best?  We don't have winter like ya'll, but you may like it better when it's not 100 degrees?  Unless of course you want to come down in hurricane season and cook with us all in 100 degrees?"

I said, "Hell no!  I think I'll pass for now."  

I asked her, "Can you hire drivers there Karen for the day to take us around?"  She says, "Ya, we all need money down here, I bet you can even hire my brother-in-law!"        

So if that doesn't answer that is and always will be home for her, I don't know whatever would.  

You couldn't pay me enough to be in 100 degrees in any type of weather, but 60-70 something works for me.

I love the states and the people down there period, and she has promised to freeze the shrimps to be consumed at a later date.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


32 posted 08-25-2006 01:18 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I don't think all college towns or all college experiences are alike, either.

In Ann Arbor, people get jazzed up about poetry readings, Mchael Moore, and indie-rock, in addition to the obligatory parties. And about 20 minutes away in Ypsi, where EMU is, the parties are pretty much the end-all be-all of college life. (Come on, I know a girl who went there for mixology.) Then there are other two college towns I've spent a notable amount of time in, Kent and Bowling Green, which seem to meet somewhere in between the two extremes of liberal activism and party-hardy.

But then again, you could be like me and go to a small private Catholic college, where my best school chum and I got our kicks watching reactions to us holding hands in the hallways and sneaking liquor into graduation.

Ron, I do see what you mean about seeing how, on the larger scale, diversities fade away, but that's true of anything. You can go from "all people are individuals" to "the people in (insert town, school, field of study or career here) are all the same" to "all (men, women, rich poeple, poor people, black people, etc.) are the same" to "all people are the same..." It's just a matter of perspective. Hop on the expressway and pass through town after town after town... yes, all the "Food and Lodging next exit" signs will have the same Holday Inn, Motel 8, McDonald's, and Denny's signs... But they have McDonald's in like, every country on earth... are all countries the same because of that?

I am, in part, playing devil's advocate because I did a project in school dealing with this exact point... that American cultural icons are not only engulfing amaerica, but other countries as well. But, here's something to think about... I can't remember where off the top of my head, and my webpage project has since been demolished by GeoCities, but there are some places where McDonald's serves veggie-burgers. So even all McDonalds are not the same... goes to show you the power of supply and demand, huh?
kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


33 posted 08-25-2006 03:58 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Is MacDonalds classed as an American Cultural icon? Yikes.

Here in Barcelona, MacDonalds gets 'bombed' (graffitied) all the time, with slogans like "Tourist-You Are The Terrorist." A bit harsh, considering that tourism makes up most of the economy now, yet it's tourism that demands places like Macdonalds. I can't help but grimace when I see visiting people going in there to buy coffee and ice-cream, something that's a bit of an art-form in Europe.  

ps; Macdonalds sell patatas bravas here-but they're horrible compared to the little cafe's that do them as tapas, although, tapas doesn't even come from here, it comes from The Basque Country-but at least the 'recipe' hasn't been delivered by a plane.
xrayzerase
Junior Member
since 02-07-2007
Posts 10
usa


34 posted 02-11-2007 01:24 PM       View Profile for xrayzerase   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit xrayzerase's Home Page   View IP for xrayzerase

ha!
great stuff!
didn't read the other replies yet--but-this post is the sort of "thinking" that is -well-put it this way-it made perfect sense-and non-sense to me.
i was in a private psych hospital from ages 16-20. it was good bad-whatever.
but it is the time and space of it that always seem to overlap any post-hopsital days--if i am here or there-somehow-the space and time of the hospital time simultaneously exists.
in my mind? who knows?
i am being silly here--but-in all seriousness-it is what drives my work (art).
the hospital became my "language"-not "word-language"-but all things. communication/thought/sense/so on.
anyway-good post. kind of like mathmatics: a number is of itself--but is never just itself. like-nothingness and infinity are they the same? opposites? at what point?
and so-when in florida again someday-maybe your mind wont even recognize it (sorry-in a goofball modd today-and this was a cool post)~andrea
trutodaraiders
Senior Member
since 12-02-2006
Posts 819
CA


35 posted 02-14-2007 12:46 PM       View Profile for trutodaraiders   Email trutodaraiders   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for trutodaraiders

Hey i love strolling up to Canada. Beautiful Country! America is over-rated, but i cant think of to many others places in this world where I'd rather live.

Aimerait aller en France quelque jour. Aimer faire du ski en haut Dans le B.C
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


36 posted 02-14-2007 03:08 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

When I was in Vietnam
I knew I wasn't in Indiana;
those who did died.

Maybe you need to travel somewhere
that doesn't have a McDonalds.
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


37 posted 02-14-2007 04:26 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

"Maybe you need to travel somewhere
that doesn't have a McDonalds."

Couldn't agree more.

I want to move to Iceland where I can be alone, no one understands me anyway so I might as well live in paradise.

Head Cheese & Chicken Feet

jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


38 posted 02-15-2007 10:50 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Edward:

I've lived in New York, North Dakota, Southern California, and North Carolina and, having been born and raised in South Central Pennsylvania, I can honestly say that none of these other places can produce a decent cheese steak or pizza (and I'm not talking about the awful "Chicago-style" pizza either).  This is enough for me to say that all places are not Pennsylvania.  And while I'm thinking about food, nobody makes a monster style double cheeseburger and fries like In-and-Out Burger in So. California.

Seriously, I do agree with you that the advent of large retailers and franchising tends to familiarize unfamiliar places.  I also agree with Amy that there are very real differences in the communities I've lived.  I doubt such differences will fade very quickly.

Jim
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


39 posted 02-15-2007 02:14 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

OT: Oh My Gawd....In and Out Burgers.....curses on you for reminding me of one more thing I've lost since moving from Yuma, AZ to this sinkhole in Texas.  I thought I knew Heaven at a Fudrucker's in Houston (yes, that's the name of the restaurant) with their 1LB burger and monster steak fries, but that was only a sublevel of the Divine, which I discovered in Yuma at an In and Out.

Rack that up to one of those odd things we actually agree upon.

And yeah, Yuma is a stone's throw from Mexico and spittin distance to Cali. So I blame both for dehydration and my wrist problem.  I'd sue if'n I was legislative.

Howsoever, back on topic, places we remember will never be current places, even if in the same exact place.  For instance, I was raised on a prison farm in Coastal Texas, and the only real constant has been Oyster Creek and this massive and old oak (15' diam) surrounded by pecans with an old prisoner graveyard by the side.  I could never find such a place, even if they had all the prime factors, for they would not be the originals I knew and loved in my own way.  Then it becomes simple Displacement, yet another malady tangent to add to the assorted mileu.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


40 posted 02-15-2007 03:15 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I could never find such a place, even if they had all the prime factors, for they would not be the originals I knew and loved in my own way.

When I returned to Michigan almost ten years ago, I drove through one of the neighborhoods where I was raised during the mid-Fifties. It was where I got my first two-wheel bicycle, and I remember my Herculean struggle to learn how to ride it. While in my yard, I could balance or I could pedal, but I just couldn't get both going at the same time. In desperation (and very much counter to parental instructions), I took the bike out of the yard, to the paved street and the monster hill upon which we lived. I balanced the bike enough to get it going and gravity did the rest. It was my first taste of real speed, the wind bringing tears to my eyes while my teeth were gritted tightly in near terror. Long minutes later, when I finally reached the bottom of that gargantuan hill, I was pedaling like a master and never again had any trouble riding a bike.

It was a bit surprising, some forty years later, to discover that hill was maybe a quarter mile of -- at best -- a five percent grade. We wouldn't even call it a hill, today, just a mild incline.


p.s. In-N-Out burgers are good. White Castle is better.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


41 posted 02-15-2007 04:38 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

But Ron- did that mild incline still evoke the feeling of your childhood, or was it just like any other incline?

Ali, I can difinitely agree with you about childhood haunts, but I don't think it's necessarily because of the place itself being particularly special in an objective sense, but more about the place being special to you. There are places from my childhood that will always make me feel a certain way, and that no other location could replace- but it's an issue of reminiscence.

I know this probably sounds like I'm contradicting what I said earlier... but I don't think I am. The park near my childhood home will always hold a certain place in my heart, and no other city park can evoke that. Same for the house I was raised in. My old street in pretty much literally memory lane- anybody's is. My street wasn't anything special, it was basically a neighborhood imitation of a suburn (cookie cutter houses and all) or rather, maybe it was at one time a suburb but the city grew around it? To other people, it's just another street that falls in line with Toledo's working class culture... just like the street I live on now is to me. Certainly, some neighborhoods have a certain culture (the hippies of the Old West End, our Old Polish Village, the yuppies of Sylvania...) within the city, just as the city has its own culture, just as the midwest has its own culture, etc. etc. etc.

So I guess what I'm saying is that cities and communities have certain cultural qualities, added to by the poeple who live there. Wow. That was much more concise and clear, huh?

BTW- I was watching the Big Lebowski the other day... I didn't realize there was actually an In-&-Out Burger. Huh. If I'm ever in Cali I'll have to check it out.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


42 posted 02-15-2007 06:12 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

P'raps that's one thing I omitted: after a span of time, absence, other mitigating factors, or all the above, even what we knew as youngus ain't what is in the Now, and it's a definite derth when that occurs.  For yes, I saw that prison farm when i was in my mid 20's, some 10 years after moving from that place where I had lived 11 years, and it wasn't the same.  The oak, creek, cedars and cemetary were there, but something had changed...the air, climate, mood was gone, never to be recovered.

And such is the way of things it seems, so we are left with fragile memory so long as it lasts, and if fortuned, other souls to plant the seed of our rememberances for future growth and retellings.

[This message has been edited by Alicat (02-15-2007 06:44 PM).]

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


43 posted 02-16-2007 09:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

"I want to move to Iceland where I can be alone, no one understands me anyway so I might as well live in paradise."


"Sir I exist
Said the man
To the universe

That does not however
Replied the universe
Create in me
A sense of obligation"

Stephen Crane

I'm also reminded of David Ignatow
who said he had reached a point
where he could look at a mountain
as a mountain
and not as comment on his life

John
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> I warned you all...   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors