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Passions in Poetry

Philosophy?

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Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


0 posted 08-09-2006 04:08 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Why on earth is there a philosophy forum on a poetry website? Poets think with their emotions and philosophy needs to be free from any bias set by passion or pride. Poets know philosophy about as much as a fish knows Austrian folk dancing. I'd imagine that two poets talking about the philosophical matters of the world would sound like two kids screaming "Yes it is!" "No it is isn't!"


Not to be rude, I'm just voicing my opinion. I just think it's all rather silly...

And furthermore, administrators should probably rename the forum as well. Since most everybody only talks about religion, the forum should appropriately called Religion. Endless threads about religion and no body seems to get anywhere, sad... yet funny at the same time.



[Insert quote of wisdom here]
Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


1 posted 08-09-2006 08:27 AM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

Well we are all entitled out opinion. The reason i would say there is a Philosophy forum here is so that we as poets can discuss things. Yes we all have our opinions and emotional beliefs, but that does not mean we cannot argue objectively about a subject matter.

quote:
Poets know philosophy about as much as a fish knows Austrian folk dancing
Really? ah well i suppose i should destroy all my books on philosophy. Forget everything i read in them. Wipe names such as Plato, Socrates etc from my mind hey?

quote:
two kids screaming "Yes it is!" "No it is isn't!
I suggest you actually read some of the threads here, and then tell us if we are doing this.

And the reason we talk about religion so much is because in an argument on it, you can bring up almost any philosophical argument as most of these relate to religion in some way.

The world is art, is poetry. And what is philosophy but trying to understand the world?

A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


2 posted 08-09-2006 08:54 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Philosophy
according to dictionary.com

1.  Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3.  A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4.  The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5.  The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6.  The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7.  A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8.  A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

I for one, love these forums...and even though I may at the time disagree, the information, someone else has offered in challenge of my beliefs, is stored and thought about later, perhaps while driving in the car, or while baking, etc.

I've learned a lot and changed my beliefs somewhat because of this forum...

I'm also learning how to articulate myself better through words, without getting my butt in trouble...so that no one might be offended.  

thought patterns of other poets, explode into great sources of information, and then there are some in here that teach thought pattern management, which also contributes to a philosophy of knowledge, and how to attain, consider, allow, and change which all help to clear mental pathways, opening doors to many different theories.  

I believe this forum is vital for expression as well as learning how to articulate and share beliefs open for discussion.


The Shadow in Blue
Member
since 05-18-2006
Posts 488
EL, Michigan


3 posted 08-09-2006 10:27 AM       View Profile for The Shadow in Blue   Email The Shadow in Blue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Shadow in Blue's Home Page   View IP for The Shadow in Blue

Why shouldn't there be a philosophy forum on a poetry site.

I see no wrong in having this forum, because everyone has an opinion and thought process on philosophy. Just because this is a poetry site and "poets think with their emotions" doesn't mean that their opinions on the world don't matter.
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


4 posted 08-09-2006 10:36 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

If you expect us to take your criticisms seriously, you should probably do three things:


1) reread your history. Ask yourself how many poets were also philosophers, and how many philosophers were also poets.  The overlap will be embarrassing.


2) Ask yourself why there is something called "philosophy of religion", and how much philosophy has involved religious questions.  The overlap will be embarrassing.


3) show up and demonstrate how philosophy should be done, rather than telling us.  


otherwise, welcome.

  

Stephen.
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


5 posted 08-09-2006 12:36 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

PERFECT!!! This is wonderful. Now I can join the fun. See, it is my philosophy that anything worth doing is worth scrutinizing to see how its participants react. You've all passed with flying colors. I've been looking at this forum for a while and I wasn't sure I wanted to invest my time into it. I needed to be sure that I'll be happy before I go all the way because once I get going I probably wonít stop. But maybe I shouldn't focus on happiness, after all Anon did say, "Philosophy is a study that lets us be unhappy more intelligently."

Digital hell, I canít wait to have a good discussion with you, you sound like a person wearing a toga and a stone tablet in hand.

I hope I didnít tick anybody off too much; itís all in good fun and like I said, I wanted to test the waters.

A word of warning to everyone though, I am obsessed with absurdism and all that it entails. So my topics may be a little weird but nonetheless sincere and generally serious. God bless

[Insert quote of wisdom here]

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


6 posted 08-09-2006 12:39 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Oh and P.S., Stephanos, I'm a proud Roman Catholic and wouldn't change it for the world. I was just noticing that there are a lot of religious topics, that's all.

[Insert quote of wisdom here]

Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


7 posted 08-09-2006 12:43 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

quote:
I hope I didnít tick anybody off too much; itís all in good fun and like I said, I wanted to test the waters.
Not at all. We propably would never admit it, but we all love a good argument no matter the outcome. Argue for arguments sake and nothing else!  

quote:
Digital hell, I canít wait to have a good discussion with you, you sound like a person wearing a toga and a stone tablet in hand.
I look that old already?! And im only 17, what will i look like when i hit 18

quote:
So my topics may be a little weird but nonetheless sincere and generally serious
I cant wait  

A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


8 posted 08-09-2006 12:52 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

""Yes it is!" "No it is isn't!""

*ahem* I believe what you have referred to here is the "snot-stew* argument, originally so termed by me and my brother, although I did mention this terminology in a previous thread. My family established precedence for its use way back in 1972 (I think) or whenever George Mcgovern was running for president.

It is a phonics-derived term, which can be replicated by any two people arguing at any time who do not give references or quote sources.

Nod.

Just say, "Is not"--"Is too"--over and over, ad nauseum and soon enough all that the human ear will find intelligible is "SNOT!" and "STEW!".

Pounding tables and yelling are entirely optional, and the game ceases when either Dad wakes up, or Mom gets ticked off.

The winner of this argument would be the one who manages to get the last word without getting punished.

--Hood Family Chronicles, as yet to be written, by moi


LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


9 posted 08-09-2006 02:22 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


10 posted 08-09-2006 02:34 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

NO way, Iíll be 18 on the 23th!! That's crazy. You seem much more mature than me.


Serenity, if you write that book, you can reserve me a few copies, lol.

[Insert quote of wisdom here]

kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


11 posted 08-09-2006 02:58 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

The word is "scrutiny". Ahoy!

I've just read Harold Pinter's "The Dumb Waiter". I didn't see any absurdities, I just found another place where Quentin Tarrantino gets his ideas from.

I think there's a lot of religious subjects 'cos we're all obsessed with the powerful action of human aspiration! (or in other words, to quote Serenity, snot stew.)

Anyway, who said I was a poet?
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


12 posted 08-09-2006 04:17 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

I'm not sure why you said ahoy to the word "scrutiny" or why you mentioned Harold Pinter but I'd imagine that if you are on a poetry website, you're probably more likely to be a poet than anything else.

[Insert quote of wisdom here]

kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


13 posted 08-09-2006 05:00 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I'm a sucker for instant association. Scrutiny, Mutiny. I mentioned Harold Pinter, because his name and art-form has been following me around,  so I thought I should read some of his work. (I've just finished it, then read your post.) As an absurdist..."derived from the Existentialism of Albert Camus, and often applied to the modern sense of human purposelessness in a universe without meaning or value." (Oxford dictionary Of Literary Terms.) I'm still bemused by the whole "Theatre Of The Absurd", but it's something I've recently got interested in. Someone gave me Beckett's "Waiting For Godot" ages ago, but I didn't finish it (insert dissapating parp here.)

I'm a poetry lover, not a poet...yet. Ps, do you think this would qualify as an absurdist write?
The Shadow in Blue
Member
since 05-18-2006
Posts 488
EL, Michigan


14 posted 08-09-2006 08:08 PM       View Profile for The Shadow in Blue   Email The Shadow in Blue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Shadow in Blue's Home Page   View IP for The Shadow in Blue

Lol! Loved the book idea Serenity. It reminds me a lot of me and my brother when we were younger-except the fact that I -always- winned.

Oh and Edward, I liked your idea of a gauge for this forum -very- ingenius :-)
Hope you have a good 18th b-day when it comes around.

~Jill S.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


15 posted 08-09-2006 09:22 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ever heard of TS Elliot?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


16 posted 08-09-2006 09:38 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"The world is art, is poetry. And what is philosophy but trying to understand the world?"

Just wanted to put that in bold

The Shadow in Blue
Member
since 05-18-2006
Posts 488
EL, Michigan


17 posted 08-09-2006 09:52 PM       View Profile for The Shadow in Blue   Email The Shadow in Blue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Shadow in Blue's Home Page   View IP for The Shadow in Blue

now I feel like a fool for  completely forgeting about the T.S. Elliot reference...anyways...*backs out unceromoniously*
I guess I am a tad immature in the literature department
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


18 posted 08-09-2006 09:54 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The best philosophers, are poets.
Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


19 posted 08-10-2006 11:52 AM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

The best philosophers, are poets. Would that then mean that the best poets are philosophers? I would think its a double sided coin... Both seek understanding of the world...

Essorant For the bold



A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


20 posted 08-14-2006 07:13 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

quote:
The best philosophers, are poets. Would that then mean that the best poets are philosophers? I would think its a double sided coin... Both seek understanding of the world...


I agree, adding, (and taking this a bit further) it has been my understanding that poets, and people who've experienced rigid times...seem to own a sensory perception , would anyone care to elaborate on this?
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


21 posted 08-14-2006 02:15 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"Now, if the artist veers too far from the maddening crowd, we are in a Plato-Cave situation, no? "

a quote from Ron Mwangaguhunga, in reply to this:
http://www.nchicha.com/other/archives/002774.html

Enjoy, Lee. It's a fascinating argument which references other fascinating reading material.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


22 posted 08-14-2006 02:30 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

And now I am drooling over yet another book:
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ct-1747-CreatingBrRev.aspx
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


23 posted 08-15-2006 08:50 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Many thanks Karen, for the refrences

Especially liked this

quote:
Brian: In the past year, Iíve decided to step away from medications. Now, Iím using depression as a fuel or energy to create. Depression doesnít have to a bad thing, or a negative, and I think Ďthe artistí eventually realizes what real creative energy they get from their depression. So, you begin to see the embracing of [depression] as a way to get things done.


I still believe, lets see if I can explain this as I feel it....

artists are creative creatures, due to a special sensitivity that they were born with, call it a sense or something they can feel that others cannot, perhaps a profound perception....and maybe due to living life to the fullest, not being afraid to be alone, or to go against what society considers normal, sane and/or trends.  

Art can be learned, but surely does not have the same refined culture that those born with the gift have? It, to me, in it's own right is philosophical.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


24 posted 08-15-2006 05:01 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Whoa.

I am not advocating that anyone stop taking their prescribed meds.

Not here, not now. And especially not in New Orleans.

In fact, we have a phone circle going to warn each other when somebody does go off their meds.

I wish I were kidding.

The whole city is nuts Lee. But anyhow, I just thought the argument on that link was interesting, and I do happen to have at least one of those books on hand, um, somewhere, An Unquiet Mind. A pretty good look at bipolor disorder, written by a psychiatrist who suffered from that, and it reads nicely for the layman reader too.

Now...I wonder?

Would it be legal to add a codicil to my tenant's lease to assure that bunch all stays on their meds?

Sheesh. It turns out that I am the sane one!

Now that's skeery.

 
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