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Religion vs Reason

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Stephanos
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25 posted 08-01-2006 07:22 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Kitherion:
quote:
I maintain nonetheless that Ying-Yang dualisimn can be overcome. Soon we will be able to have mind without body, morals without thought... but untill then we should continue towards the path towards enlightenment.


No offense, but could you explain how that relates to this thread?


Stephen.
LeeJ
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26 posted 08-01-2006 11:05 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

quote:
I'm just wondering what other people's opinion on religion and if it is necessarily where the best interest is for the world's nations.


I believe, if it wouldn’t be for religions, this world might be a better place.  

Yes, religions (including atheisum) provides our desires with a lot of comfort, and hope, as people do need comfort and hope in their lives, not to mention, something to believe in…and some need a set of regimented rules like the rules of religion, but there is so much more…

I don’t believe God intended WARs and the loss of life to be, otherwise, he would not have created us on an intellectual level…and religion is the one single reason why, more then any other reason in history, why wars are fought, which brings me to another theory….I’ve oft contemplated that religions may in fact, be the demons of the world?  They certainly do divide and stagnate freedom of thoughts and beliefs, not to mention, fear any progression, even to the point of deciding which is life and taking it one step further, which life is more important?

I think religion has greatly contributed to obstinance and bigotry which obscures reality.

People have been exploited, enslaved or burned as witches in the name of religions…and Christianity as all other religions began to explain a mystery or a supernatural happening that frankly, to me, becomes doctrines, and are more destructive then constructive.

I think God allowed us to evolve to an intelligence to develop it, to use it and to live our lives not based on superstitions (religion) and will not, in my way of thinking grant a pass to anyone in the afterlife.

Spirituality is more of a deeper form of faith, along with Intelligent Design and Science, and just for the intriguing factor of it all, adds to this forms of spirituality (supernatural) or mystery.  And to me, God is a supernatural designer that is endless and free of boundary and defies natural laws, however…all this probably contradicts reality?  

Yet, in all of this, without Religions, there can be no absolute standard of wrong or right…which would result in chaos…(with no internal moral compass) for which man lives by.

So, religion as Ilania put it, does both good and bad… Just my two cents, anyway, I could be wrong?



jbouder
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27 posted 08-01-2006 12:26 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Shadow:

quote:
I'm just wondering what other people's opinion on religion and if it is necessarily where the best interest is for the world's nations.


I don't know about whether it is in the best interest of the world's nations in general, but I do know of one community in Kenya that has received direct benefit from the generosity of Christians in my congregation.  A community that previously had to hike five miles to dig into dry river beds to get to dirty water now have a number of deep wells, and will have cattle and beasts of burden to assist them with farming.  Where secular government units have failed to rise to the occasion of providing needy people with the necessities of life, the church has stepped up and delivered.

I don't think we should believe for one minute that international conflict is routinely about religion.  More often, I think, it is about land and hegemony.  Can religion serve as the vehicle for tyranny?  Sure.  But so can racism (e.g., Arianism) and militant nationalism (e.g., post-colonial Africa).

Just my opinion.

Jim
XOx Uriah xOX
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28 posted 08-01-2006 12:29 PM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

"God has no religion" --- Mahatma Ghandi
Digital_Hell
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29 posted 08-01-2006 04:32 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

quote:
I believe, if it wouldn’t be for religions, this world might be a better place.
I agree fully with this.

The narrow close mindedness of religion has only lead to problems. Even christianity, one of the most accepting and open beliefs still holds that one fatal flaw. The belief that it is the only way to god. That ideology is what leads to problems as it shows that no matter what is said, it is irrelevant as it is ultimately incorrect.

Once you decide something is absolutely right and unnegotiable, you close your mind on it and reject any further ideas on it. You close your mind to the possibility that there may be something that is better.

quote:
without Religions, there can be no absolute standard of wrong or right
Can man not by himself develop a set of morals and standards without the need of some higher being of unfathomable power?

Are you saying that by himself man can therefore not strive to better himself and attain a kind of goodness that has come from within?

Good and bad yes, It gives hope,strength and respite too the weary soul. And yet it single handedly is the greatest divide between people. And responsible for far more damage than anything else in the world. Perhaps as you said religion is the true face of the devil. Dividing the churches over simple doctrinal differences, ideas and small customs. Turning loving men against another.

I think these words from a song express it so beautifully

quote:
Christian sons with hearts of anger
Bring the book, the cross, the chancre
Hallelujah, hallelujah, kiss the cross or they will burn you
Hallelujah, hallelujah, they have come to rape and murder


and

quote:
Across a sea of tears and blood
Across a scape of murdered babies
They will cleanse and purify
For their Christ and for their Lady
They will take the joy of love and
name it as a badge of shame
They will steal and they will plunder
They will tell you you're to blame


and lastly
quote:
On the wheel and on the gibbet
Broken bodies, broken dreams
In the churches, the sheep, the traitors
Now they are both pure and clean


those words i think are most definately A very true expression of religion.

the song is called "Wake Of The Christian Knights" by INKUBUS SUKKUBUS.

hells gate reads Abandon hope all ye that enter here
shall we go?
the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Will you walk with me?

Brad
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30 posted 08-01-2006 11:10 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
A transcending question would be "If there is no word of God, where does one get the idea of a 'right thing'?


That's not a transcendent question, it's a different question.

If you're doing something you think is right, do you really need God to back you up?

Do you really walk around saying, I don't know, I love my children because God tells me to?

Local Rebel
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31 posted 08-01-2006 11:30 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

I believe, if it wouldn’t be for religions, this world might be a better place.



I understand the premises and conditions that might lead one to this conclusion, but, anthropologically speaking we wouldn't have 'this world' without religion and we certainly wouldn't be the humans that we are.  

Religion provided a common understanding of the universe, a common code of conduct, a code of remedy, and provided coherence for the development of tribes and nations in cooperation.  The insertion of superstition and mythology is as natural and as reasonable as assuming that expecting when we plug our computers into the power outlet and the ethernet/cable modem/ dialup -- that we're going to be able to turn it on and hop onto the internet.

It is our chief survival mechanism to understand and interpret the world around us -- we don't have saber teeth -- we don't have long necks to graze in trees-- we have brains.  So, we attempt to understand and therefore reason and predict the approach of predators, the change of seasons, the causes of illness -- anything that might threaten us individually or as a species.  

In order to work together common paradigms of what the universe was and how things worked was a necessity.  

There is an old saying though that goes like this -- if a nation has two religions it will always be at war with itself -- if a nation has one religion it will always be at war with it's neighbors -- if a nation has 20 religions it will live in peace.

The reason is simply that when a nation has 20 religions the common paradigm has become tolerance and acceptance -- one might even say that reverence for a Constitution might supplant the core codex that would constitute a religion in previous societies.

We see religion and science at odds with each other because of the competition for a worldview -- science is happy to leave matters of 'faith' and mythology to religion -- but to some religions 'faith' means that a particular worldview must be dogmatically maintained.

When two religions with differing worldviews collide -- watch out.

But, as Jim very rightly pointed out -- in the absence of religion we'd still fight over money and power.  (which is ultimately a fight over sex/reproduction)
Kitherion
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32 posted 08-02-2006 03:31 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

Digital, your constant search for an answer is honestly touching, but really... a world without religion is like saying that we could exist on this planet without a source of oxygen or evn a source of light.

Yes, I do uinderstand that you are confused about the entire religious system, but as it was said you don't neccesarily have to have to believe in a God but still faith is essential for all human existance. Like the old religion (by this I mean wicca) for example, does not require that you celebrate every sabbat, or esbat, but it is based on the amount of faith that you posses that you would celebrate them for example.

I don not mean to be insulting in anyway - note it should be mentioned that if I was you can speak to me... cue dramatic music - but I just find it rather humerous that one so enlightened as you claim to be still exists in this confined soace of debating whether or not a God/Supreme being exists, and whethere they should be worshipped.

Anyway... blessed be.

Within the path of the Goddess I walk, she guides my every step.. into the oblivion called life.

Kitherion
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33 posted 08-02-2006 03:34 AM       View Profile for Kitherion   Email Kitherion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kitherion

To reply to you Stephanos:

I qouted that due to the l;arge amountsa of ideas that were floating around the thread at the time. I believe that therer will soon be an age where all your questions will be answered "a mind without body" if you will.

Hope that this clarifies things.

Within the path of the Goddess I walk, she guides my every step.. into the oblivion called life.

LeeJ
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34 posted 08-02-2006 08:52 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Digital Hell

quote:
Can man not by himself develop a set of morals and standards without the need of some higher being of unfathomable power?


No, I don't think in the beginning Man thought it could be, and my point exactly, as to why I believe the Bible was invented....again...I believe the Bible is a very good book to live our lives by...but I also question it's authenticity through man's desires for power and material wealth...

Man is always somehow diverted from the real issues of peace, good will towards men, consideration for others, before one self...knowing that we are visitors here, leaving this place a bit better then when we found it....the only thing we truly own is our own spirits and the free will of them...which to me, there is no other greater gift that man could have, other then bearing children...but, please always keep in mind, there is good and bad in everything...(except freakin cramps)
Digital_Hell
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35 posted 08-02-2006 09:26 AM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

quote:
a world without religion is like saying that we could exist on this planet without a source of oxygen or evn a source of light.
So you are saying that man cannot exist without religion? SO then by that definition atheists who deny the existance of a God or supreme being cannot exist by your logic?

quote:
but I just find it rather humerous that one so enlightened as you claim to be still exists in this confined soace of debating whether or not a God/Supreme being exists, and whethere they should be worshipped.
I didnt claim to be enlightned. And if i did i appologise, (please show me here where i said I am enlightned) I dont debate gods existance. I debate whether or not we as humans need him. If existance without him is possible. If we cannot without his supposed guidance and love reach our own understanding of right and wrong.(though these two terms are still relative)

LeeJ

quote:
I believe the Bible is a very good book to live our lives by...but I also question it's authenticity through man's desires for power and material wealth...
I agree with you here. I do feel that the bible is a good book and that it has helped. But as you do, i question it.

quote:
.the only thing we truly own is our own spirits and the free will of them...
I agree with you here. But here i would like to ask a question. If God (i use it in the generic sense of a supreme being. Not only christian) has a plan for all of us, does that not seem akin to fate or destiny? And in doing so removes what free will he gives us?

hells gate reads Abandon hope all ye that enter here
shall we go?
the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Will you walk with me?
serenity blaze
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36 posted 08-02-2006 09:40 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I think religions are like um...say a stairmaster.

You can acquire one of those things, and say that you have it, but until you use it, it's just another object.

Religion is a process, methinks, that must be made personal by the application of whatever device suits your personal needs and goals.

I personally don't care if ya worship purple dinosaurs and sing the Barney Song.

If it works for you--I am all for it.
XOx Uriah xOX
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37 posted 08-02-2006 10:21 AM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

I agree with Witchy Poo.
ALL paths are glorious.  
Even the person who "thinks" he chooses No Path...walks one.
LeeJ
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38 posted 08-02-2006 10:31 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Digital Hell

quote:
I agree with you here. But here I would like to ask a question. If God (i use it in the generic sense of a supreme being. Not only christian) has a plan for all of us, does that not seem akin to fate or destiny? And in doing so removes what free will he gives us?


No, I don't believe so and here's why.

God gifts us the advantage of life...perhaps with a plan for us in mind...but, I don't believe he really knows what we're going to do with the free will of free choice.  

So so many Christains believe God waves a magic wand and fixes things if we pray? He doesn't, we are in control of our own destiny, we must fix ourselves...and it is by our choices, that we can either grow, or wallow in self sympathy, stagnating our growth...deluding ourselves into believing we should hang onto the past, instead of changing...going forward and doing our souls better.  If we do that, we then, touch so many other lives in a positive way?  Yes...and that, is our destiny...including the people we meet, which is what I believe, anyway?  

Sometimes what we pray for, does materialize, but mostly thru free will, and making things happen.  Which brings us to the Question, does God intervien...I believe in some cases he does...but then there is the illnesses, the storms, the earth quakes...all part of nature's cycles...just like a body in motion...things happen, the bad things to learn from and remind us, how sweet the good times are?  Making the good times, all that more valuable to our essence.

But, if in fact we are as his children, then can any parent predict what they're children will do?

Doesn't say this perception is right, just things I think about....

we must always always keep an open mind, considering other factors, keeping our minds active...cuz God also gifted us with not only an intellect, but curiosity...which to me shows his greatness in gifting us with resources in the shadows of all things.

XOx Uriah xOX
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39 posted 08-02-2006 10:40 AM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

and oh...
"Witchy Poo" was meant as a term of endearment.
No offense was intended.
Now...I'm going to listen to Larry Raspberry and the Highsteppers. (finally got my album back)
Essorant
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40 posted 08-02-2006 10:45 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I would rather believe the earth is flat than always question and criticize what I or someone else believes in.  If you always question what you believe in that may hardly be a very strong belief or comforting at all.

LeeJ
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41 posted 08-02-2006 11:29 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ess

quote:
I would rather believe the earth is flat than always question and criticize what I or someone else believes in.  If you always question what you believe in that may hardly be a very strong belief or comforting at all.


You could be write on one hand, but on the other Ess...Curiosity is part of man's nature...according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity
it is man's makeup to do so, any natural inquisitive behaviour, evident by observation and the very essence of who we are, it's a natural instinct...bringing to mind...

quote:
BY Albert Einstein...
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.


which brings to mind, if only humans could realize the potential of change, and not fear progression...both with religion and everyday life...

do you remember being curious as a child? it was like a natural hunger for knowledge...but along the lines, as we grow, society dictates to us what we should believe, how we should do things, live our lives, and we should seek acceptance & approval for our own happiness?  

One cannot help contemplating the mysteries of reality for structure or of eternity, or of spiritual phenomenon, it is actually a necessity to live life, to seek, to observe, to question.  

Without curiosity, we would not have air conditioners, and I'd be sweeting unmercifully today and my cohorts would be walking around with clothpins on their noses...

Seriously...it is the fuel of growth, the light switch of a cycle of learning, and I cringe to think about how farther along we'd be today, if it wouldn't be for society's fears and need to control...fears of being wrong, strangling the blessed inquiry of curiosity.

Our poetential is awesome and unfathomable...not to mention, a gift and wealth from God, in His Image.  Humans fear answers, and the powers that be, surpress it.

Curiosity must live, otherwise, all will soon wilt and die.


Karen, (shaking head enthusiastically while saying)uhhh huh.....I'm with ya gal....


Essorant
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42 posted 08-02-2006 12:18 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"You could be write on one hand, but on the other Ess...Curiosity is part of man's nature...according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity  
it is man's makeup to do so, any natural inquisitive behaviour, evident by observation and the very essence of who we are, it's a natural instinct...bringing to mind..."

I'm not denying that, LeeJ.  
But I think saying or approaching religion as if it should be questioned all the time is like saying that I should question the arrangement of the furniture in my house endlessly, even though it is arranged in such a way that gives me and my family what comfort we like best.  Indeed, some of our furniture is not what others may like, some of it is old and not very modern, some of it is passed down from ancestors and held on rather obstinatly: but we are sentimently and physically comfortable.   Once in a while a change is no harm.  But questioning and rearranging the furniture everyday would hardly be a "home" to me.  I would rather live in a broken down old shack with cheap comfort, than in some household that expected the furniture to be questioned and rearranged all the time for always trying to seek something better.


jbouder
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43 posted 08-02-2006 12:40 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

A question for the group:

Can you accept that religious belief and reasonableness can coexist in the same person?

If so, then perhaps the antithetical "religion vs. reason" is flawed to begin with.  If not, then why?

Jim
LeeJ
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44 posted 08-02-2006 01:17 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hey Ess

quote:
But I think saying or approaching religion as if it should be questioned all the time is like saying that I should question the arrangement of the furniture in my house endlessly, even though it is arranged in such a way that gives me and my family what comfort we like best.


oh my yes, if that's your comfort zone and where you want to be, then by all means, what ever works for you...yanno, but in the same, please try and understand, it doesn't work for other folks...like me...

I want to know more, and absorb all I can and come to my own spiritual levels and conclusions...not just because my mom tells me, The Bible is the absolute truth, or because some minister, who is a man, or some priest, who is a man, says its the almight truth...its just not in my mind...enough, theres more out there, I just know it deep inside...

On the other hand, if I may be so bold to say so, is...try and understand, there is no personal attack against your character or your beliefs from me.  No insults or any form of mockery or judgements due to your beliefs...

Its just that my needs are, to not only dig deeper but to vocalize those ideas, you see, even though we've shared some differences of opinions, the big picture is, we shared, and I for one learn that way, without starting a big war...

allowance and tolerance...which is so needed in our world today...I think Ess that is what we all mean to try, but somehow we get caught up in taking someone else's ideas as a personal attack, or as if they are saying we're wrong, and that is so difficult for man's ego to accept.  And walla, people get offended, come back with insults, then before you know it, the other one must retaliate, a war starts?  And By God, it's so silly, so childish, and so wrong.

Thanks so much for your input...and understanding


Essorant
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45 posted 08-02-2006 02:02 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"I want to know more, and absorb all I can and come to my own spiritual levels and conclusions"


I don't mean to make ado but how may you come to any conclusion or contentness if you are always seeking to know more and absorb more, rather than cultivate what you already have and make the most thereof?  

More knowledge doesn't make you for sure a better farmer in Wisdom's fields.  In fact if someone already struggles with the acres he undertakes, to bring forth the fruits, or even if he doesn't struggle much and has graceful success, I think adding more and more acres all the time just threatens the ability and grace to take care of what acres he already undertakes, because now he can't attend as specially at a smaller expanse but must attend more superficially at a wider one.  

I think few humans do better with more of basically any knowledge, than they do with a sustained and successful cultivation of what is most important and closest to the heart.  

LeeJ
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46 posted 08-02-2006 02:02 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hey Reb

I apologize, didn’t mean to appear to ignore you...as you’ve bought some very interesting concepts to the table which I’d like to add to, and it took some time...and in case I forget, thank you…

quote:
I understand the premises and conditions that might lead one to this conclusion, but, speaking we wouldn't have 'this world' without religion and we certainly wouldn't be the humans that we are.


Yes, I agree Reb, as I believe I stated, there are good things that branch from religion, but there are also bad things, like fear of change, or fear of questioning authenticity, due to man’s inability to be perfect, like God, along with man’s incapable mind to see what’s important whic are the things he cannot see, taste or feel…?  I think Religion has stagnated man’s ability to excel to a greater mental, spiritual and technological capacity…along with the cause of many divorces today…(as society deems it necessary to be married to be successful) is just one aspect of my assumptions… where does that idea come from?  Why, from the old school of religion, doesn’t it?

quote:
Religion provided a common understanding of the universe, a common code of conduct, a code of remedy, and provided coherence for the development of tribes and nations in cooperation.  The insertion of superstition and mythology is as natural and as reasonable as assuming that expecting when we plug our computers into the power outlet and the ethernet/cable modem/ dialup -- that we're going to be able to turn it on and hop onto the internet.


Wull darn it, I want to hop onto the supernatural internet…   seriously, I hear ya.

quote:
It is our chief survival mechanism to understand and interpret the world around us -- we don't have saber teeth -- we don't have long necks to graze in trees-- we have brains.  So, we attempt to understand and therefore reason and predict the approach of predators, the change of seasons, the causes of illness -- anything that might threaten us individually or as a species.
  

yes, your right, but think about this…why is it so much easier for man to think that causes are one reason, vs many reasons.  People don’t do things for one reason, but many.  Things don’t happen for one reason, but by many reasons.  

We as a society are willing to accept so much dirt, gloom and doom, and illnesses, oh, illnesses, must be caused by the devil…wull I don’t believe so..illnesses are in my belief, caused by bacteria, location, bad water, bad food, taking medications, drugs, passed down genetically, etc.?   Also Reb, are we to lazy a society to think for ourselves, to delve deeper into an event and ask questions?  Why is it, when the debates come on TV, the public doesn’t ask both sides questions, they just accept what those politicians are saying to them?  Why…Don’t answer that, that’s just an example.  

Another Example is global warming real…yes, it’s possible & probable, but, to, there are other reasons, not just one?  Weather is nature, and nature has patterns and cycles, just like humans…so, there are I think, several reasons & causes that work into creating this event…

quote:
In order to work together common paradigms of what the universe was and how things worked was a necessity.
  

Yes it was and still is, although math, and other theories also work into the event, doesn’t it?  Along with other assumptions, concepts, values, and practices, perhaps my reality, isn’t yours…yanno?  Especially intellectually…now, we figure in concepts of our Great Masters…etc?  Yes?

quote:
There is an old saying though that goes like this -- if a nation has two religions it will always be at war with itself -- if a nation has one religion it will always be at war with it's neighbors -- if a nation has 20 religions it will live in peace.

The reason is simply that when a nation has 20 religions the common paradigm has become tolerance and acceptance -- one might even say that reverence for a Constitution might supplant the core codex that would constitute a religion in previous societies.


Wull, I’ll agree with ya there, now, lets root for 20 political parties, instead of two, whataya say?
Seriously, yes, I agree, but to me, the core codex for the Constitution, to me is to preserve peace and liberty for all men?  And yes, I believe it in fact then was a core religion, as several of those who signed were Free Masons.

quote:
We see religion and science at odds with each other because of the competition for a worldview -- science is happy to leave matters of 'faith' and mythology to religion -- but to some religions 'faith' means that a particular worldview must be dogmatically maintained.


I beg to differ a little on this concept, as I believe people are starting to believe that Science and God are more related then anyone was ever before able to admit.


quote:
When two religions with differing worldviews collide -- watch out.

But, as Jim very rightly pointed out -- in the absence of religion we'd still fight over money and power.  (which is ultimately a fight over sex/reproduction)


I’m sorry Reb, not grasping the part where you say which is ultimately a fight over sex/reproduction, can you please explain?

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


47 posted 08-02-2006 02:14 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Jim

"Can you accept that religious belief and reasonableness can coexist in the same person?"

Good question Jim.  Just like the words "pitch" and "stress"  betoken a predominance of one or the other in an accent that always includes both pitch and stress, I think the words "religion" and "reason or science" as well betoken a predominance of one or the other, not a seperate state.  In other words every lore always has both religious belief and reason/science, but when the religious belief is the predominante aspect the conjunction of religion and reason is called "religion" and when the rational aspect is the predominate aspect the conjunction of religion and reason is called "reason" or "science"   Both are always together in oneness in one way or another, but according to the chief character or difference that penetrates the compound "accent" of both religion and reason the accent becomes known as "religion" or "reason"/"science".  

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


48 posted 08-02-2006 02:17 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ess,

I disagree, knowledge is power...and when we conclude, that we know everything there is to know about a topic, any subject as you exampled, that's where we stumble and stagnate...for there is always, always someone who knows more...from which a person can learn...not to mention...the stagnation of the mind is to me, a waste of God's gift.

I grew up with the Pennsylvania Dutch and immigrant Germans, and believe me, some of them can be so stubborn absolutely thinking they know all there is to know, and will stand there and argue with you up and down, back and forth, before admitting they are wrong and learn something new.  They stagnated their growth, in that they refused to learn more...shutting down their minds, and living in their own little worlds, which doesn't open doors to the possiblity of change or progression, for self, and for family, those after their generation...meaning they feared education, feared admitting they are wrong...and you know something...it slows down the mind, is unhealthy and it's proven, that an inactive mind contributes to altzimers disease.

Does that make sense?
Digital_Hell
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since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


49 posted 08-02-2006 03:50 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

perhaps in this chaotic world there is no reason, only madness?

quote:
knowledge is power
Power corrupts if it is left too run free. However i am in full agreement with you. Once you decide you are absolute correct on a topi you close your mind too it and refuse any further possibilities of learning in that area.This is wrong as it is entirely possible that there is someone who has a better understanding that you have. And even just listening to them, is good and it increases your view point on the topic.

Perhaps the reason people dont want to change their views or accept new ones is fear. Fear of the unknown?

hells gate reads Abandon hope all ye that enter here
shall we go?
the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Will you walk with me?
 
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