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Passions in Poetry

Women and Religion - Open Thread

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iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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75 posted 08-05-2006 02:53 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

History indicates that Caesar may have destroyed parts or all of the Library at Alexandria before the time of Christ, but if that were the case, it was certainly rebuilt.  Having been rebuilt it would have been the storehouse of much of the wisdom and religious scrolls at the time of Christ and thereafter up until what appears to me to be when the bulk of that information was lost, possibly when Lucius Domitius Aurelianus (September 9, 214–September 275), known in English as Aurelian, Roman Emperor (270–275), re-concurred that area.  He had as one of his objectives to set in force a one-god religion....though it was the religion of the Sun God.  In order to do this, it may well be he destroyed valuable texts that did not fit his ultimate agenda, which may well have included the original scrolls of the gospels as this place would have been a tremendous repository.  That may well have been where the gnostic gospels were housed, as well.  Constantine then took the Sun God notion a step further when he worked that into switching the Sun God religion to the Son/God religion with Mary then replacing Isis or the Greek or Roman Goddess equivalent.  

Stephanos, I am not suggesting this was not all a part of God's plan....as we know The Creator works in mysterious ways.  I am still sticking to my belief that things were discarded, picked and chosen.  And that's okay....I agree with Essorant on this.  The Gnostic Gospels and the Apocryha Acts, and the Nag Hammadi library in general, only add to the fuller picture, I think.  To ignore them is to burn the library all over again.  

This would be a good time to bring in Hypatia....hint hint, Ser.  
Hypatia
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since 03-22-2004
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76 posted 08-05-2006 10:25 PM       View Profile for Hypatia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Hypatia

You rang?



I'll be back.

Just wanted to let you all know that although much of history has forgotten me, I have not forgotten history.

and somebody tell serenity to call before she drops by, will ya?

She can be a little annoying.
iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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USA


77 posted 08-05-2006 11:48 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I'm waiting to hear more, Hypathia.  Had no idea I would catch your attention; I thought I'd get Ser to tell us what she knows because she has studied about you, or at least your namesake.....but sure am glad to have you join the conversation.  

Don't see how Serenity could bug you though -- unless it would be with questions.  
serenity blaze
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78 posted 08-06-2006 01:01 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Hypatia? My apologies for this--I know how you hate being "googled"--being a mathematician and all--BUT:
http://www.cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html

read and shiver, wimmenfolk...
iliana
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79 posted 08-06-2006 01:24 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Ser, sounds almost the same as what happened to Pope Joan and Joan of Arc.  Hummmm....leaves one wondering as to whether it was strong, intelligent women who were hated or whether it was a power struggle between men and women.  In any case, this was certainly not what Jesus would have done, right?  It also occurs to me that the reason she was murdered was because of the access she may have had to sacred texts and her knowledge of such....being this was early on in the beginning of "the heresies."

All three of these women were labeled "witches."  But Joan of Arc....that one couldn't be covered up; now they call her a Saint.  Anyone seeing any contradiction here?

Sigh.....what is so frigtening about a strong, intelligent woman?  

Obviously, anyone who thought like her found it necessary to go underground.  Do you think perhaps the origin of the Tarot which is encoded with mystical Christian symbology originated with her or perhaps, one of her students?  
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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SE PA


80 posted 08-07-2006 07:17 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hello and good morning...
good to scan your comments...please keep this going...it's getting very interesting...sorry I can't add to it at this time...but will stop back later to read and comment.

Many thanks Ilana...will get back to you with the knights of the templar
iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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USA


81 posted 08-07-2006 09:59 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

LOL....I came back this afternoon to type a few questions about how women who practiced advanced sciences and much earthy common sense, many of them who revered Mother Earth, got the label of "witch" and to ask how that became a negative connotation.  Was it Christianity or the Bible that made it so?   But when I started posing all my questions this afternoon, my electric went out.  I took it as a sign I should keep my mouth shut.....and...lol....here I am again.  
Stephanos
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82 posted 08-08-2006 03:42 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

iliana:
quote:
Lucius Domitius Aurelianus ... had as one of his objectives to set in force a one-god religion....though it was the religion of the Sun God.  In order to do this, it may well be he destroyed valuable texts that did not fit his ultimate agenda, which may well have included the original scrolls of the gospels as this place would have been a tremendous repository.  That may well have been where the gnostic gospels were housed, as well.



Iliana, if his goal was to establish worship of a "sun-God" similar to the earlier Egyptian deity, then orthodox Christian texts would stand in his way much more than the gnostic texts (which are far more sycretistic).  The New Testament is not idolatry-friendly, to put it mildly.


And as for the origins of Christianity, I hope you're not making a connection with Aurelianus.  The Jewish monotheism (the root of Jesse, as it were) is doubtless the foundation for the Christian religion.  Christian and non-Christian scholarship concur on that point.


quote:
Constantine then took the Sun God notion a step further when he worked that into switching the Sun God religion to the Son/God religion with Mary then replacing Isis or the Greek or Roman Goddess equivalent.



I have no problem in seeing a connection between Roman Catholic exaltation of Mary, and Isis.  However the Jewish Messiah, and his very human but pious mother (as portrayed in the Gospels) has no such connection.


Since Christianity was birthed in a very Hellenistic world ... I see both a good and bad blending with Greek thought, as inevitable.  But again these are only ingrafted branches, into that Jewish olive tree which is the root of Christianity.


quote:
I am still sticking to my belief that things were discarded, picked and chosen.



I'm not asking you to shed that belief.  I believe that too.  I would only add that there were valid textual reasons behind the choosing, as opposed to merely selfish and political ones.  Believing the latter, I still maintain, is a popular form of historical recontruction, and is based on a "hermeneutic of suspicion" as N.T. Wright  once called it.


interesting conversation,


Stephen.          
 
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