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Education, Health, and Mental Stability

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Knubian
Junior Member
since 03-25-2006
[First Post] 27
Louisiana, United States


0 posted 04-16-2006 11:36 AM       View Profile for Knubian   Email Knubian   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Knubian's Home Page   View IP for Knubian


Education, Health, and Mental Stability

I started this thread because of the question posed by Brad of mathematics.  

Yet because I am not a mathematician, I don’t want to dwell in an area where I’m not finely-tuned to give logical answers.  But I have worked in the social work field dealing with people of all types including hearing and speech impaired, and subsequently have embarked on some of the educational needs of our children as well as adults.  Therefore this thread is not to disrespect Brad’s question of mathematics, but to broaden the question of all educational subjects in and of the student as well as adults and educators.



I think our critical problem lies in the continuing change that started with trying to keep up with Asian students by introducing child-like behaviors to computer and calculation technologies before they have learned simple arithmetic problems; and of course the lack of measurable experience and the inability to comprehend beyond their years.  And it seems no one in the educational field is speaking on behalf of our children poor performances in a way that conquers the ever-evolving problem of our educational, health, and mental stability of our children.

My son for instance, was an excellent reader even in his earliest days of school, always being pushed beyond his years.  Yet, while in third grade, he is pushed into fifth and sixth grade reading classes.  The main two problems these educators never considered were the fact that older kids, regardless to how smart they were, did not take well to a younger kid showing them up.  The other problem was that my son lack the measurable experience of life to measure against what he was reading, therefore, he showed an inability to comprehend the subject read on relative economics and societal matters.

Other problems existed as well.  Such as educators trying to make him into a teachers’ pet, as if he was something on display, or a grown-up and not a child.  Then there were the feelings of inadequacies and belonging... Moreover, periods isolation.  What I got back from that schoolhouse was one close to being screwed-up child, until I stepped in and cut it off.  Fortunately, being a single parent at the time, my decision alone was final, but it took some doing and the help of a lot of professionals outside the school system, and he is now grown and in the military and I believe will do well in life.

To give you other instance.  I once was an assistant to an employment counselor at a rehab institution.  One day we received a communication via the Mid-American Institute on Poverty.  They wanted various citywide programs to participate in a collaboration effort of tracking and evaluating the progress identifiable clients beyond rehabilitation.  

One of the programs this rehab offered their clients was a landscaping program aimed at putting people back to work, along with a few others. However, the main problem there is there were no “realistic” educational components attached to the programs.

For instance, to be a successful landscaper, should one know some geometry?  To be a successful floor care specialist, should one know some chemistry?  But how do you learn geometry and chemistry without knowing or learning basic arithmetic and science?  Then on to mathematics and chemistry, and maybe even the matrix system and biology on the way.

The problem is that we have pushed our children through these accelerated learning programs trying to keep up with Asian students of the world that we have forgotten about basic reading, writing and arithmetic skills.  To sit three, four and five year old children in front of computers are the cause and effect result that we have today in internet predators.  To allow a child to use a calculator throughout the school year destroys the psyche in failure of test scoring without one.

I remember most all of my math teachers not accepting math lessons where the problems were not worked-out in the space between the problem and answer. They would give the paper back to you and say, “show where you worked the problem out.”  And you had to do it, or you could be failed, because it was a sign of coping or using a calculator!  I remember my writing teachers saying, “write a book report, not type one, or print one from information found on the internet.”  And of course, “reading out-loud during class.”

Now granted that we have initiated reading programs in the past few years, and of course, there are educational institutions that never got away from the basics, but overall, we have lost millions of children trying to keep up with nations in regards to how educated their children are.

I don’t know what person, or person’s, or government, or educators, or systems came up with the ideal that we needed to be competitive with nations whose people are so poor; and over-populated that whole generations live in one and two bed room apartments; where you can’t have more that one child, and need written approval to have two; and fined for having three; and maybe even jailed for having four!  Where with all these educated people, the walk of life is still so dismal there, they struggle to get over here to live.  

Is this really, what we are trying to keep up with?  While our inner cities look more and more like their providences on the banks of the Yantze river; or to be so conformed by a crooked or dictate-able government that the divide between the rich and the poor is as wide as the Grand Canyon?  Looks familiar?  We’ve been heading down “their road” to chaos and our last thirty years of our children is proof of it.

We have got to get back to basic educational teachings by restoring writing and arithmetic along with reading.  And take away the computers and calculators until a child has shown a proficiency in the “book learning of basic reading, writing, arithmetic, health, history, science, economics, shop, gym, etc...”  I mean… what’s wrong with kids climbing the ropes in gym to stay in shape, or running, or exercising, we did it and weren’t a bunch of over-weight kids whose parents were trying to blame and sue restaurants, because their kids don’t get exercise.  They sit in school on the computer and then they come home, or go to libraries and sit in front of one.  And at the same time, how can you learn computer science when you don’t know the above basics?  

Reading, writing, arithmetic, health, history, science, economics, shop and gym were the basic subjects taught thirty years plus-ago when kids came out of school with basic knowledge of self, country and world - even if they didn‘t go on into higher fields of applied mathematics, computer science, chemistry, physics, medical, journalism, technologies, business, etc...    

I think it’s the shame of our educators, government and nation as a whole that some high school graduates can’t even read the newspaper to look for a job.  Or a college student can heck into someone’s computer but can’t write the formula he used to do it. Or a high school’er can make a bomb and learn of weaponry on the internet to kill his class mates but can‘t pass a simple chemistry exam.  And our kids can’t estimate pricing and averages, divide and subtract. The biggest shame I’ve seen was the Chicago Bulls player/college graduate from years ago whom had to start over in a third grade reading class because he couldn’t read his own contract - not understand it, but read it!

I don’t care that the world has grown smaller through technologies in computer science… it doesn’t mean that we have to continue to grow dumber with it!  This is what has happened to our children!  But all these educators say they can’t figure it out!  

Let’s start here; “You can’t start five year olds off in eight grade!  In my day school-kids earned their way out of school, not just passed along and given a diploma because they got too old to be there - if they failed, they went away with nothing!  

Now you don‘t get young adults in college that can‘t read, write and add!  Now you lessen the need of a sizable portion of children to be on prosaic;  you lessen the child-obesity problem; and at the same time you help lessen illiteracy in the most powerful country in the world!”

Regards,
Knubian

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


1 posted 04-16-2006 04:50 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

If most people found out that everything most important may actually be approached in simple and straightforward ways, how could the school system make as much money as they do by over-complicating everything and making people feel dependant on learning such overcomplication in order to understand just about anything?
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


2 posted 04-16-2006 08:39 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Knubian,

I think you touched on the cause of the problem:

quote:
I don’t know what person, or person’s, or government, or educators, or systems came up with the ideal that we needed to be competitive with nations whose people are so poor; and over-populated that whole generations live in one and two bed room apartments


Could it be that the young people in the east have one way out of their situation – education. If you think about it that situation once existed in the west, at one time the only way to better yourself was to get an education. Now kids see ill-educated sports stars and rappers earning gazillions of dollars, they see Lottery winners driving fancy cars with snazzy cribs and think perhaps there are easier ways to make a living that doesn’t involve hard work.

Of course very few make it, but those that don’t always have crime to fall back on.

The educators look to the east and the methods and systems that produce highly educated students when they should be looking at why their students want to learn while students in the west want to listen to rap music and play sports.

The depressing thing is that if I’m right the solution would require a dramatic shift in society and societal values, so dramatic in fact that it’s unlikely to happen.

I hope I’m wrong.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


3 posted 04-17-2006 01:39 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The problem is that the most important things are not being put first.  Language, is the means thro which everyone learns, thinks, speaks, reads, writes.  And yet studies in the English language itself, the language that most people speak is very minimal at highschool, and there isn't any study of Old English, nor Middle English to understand the roots and foundations of linguistic "parts" that are yet part of everyday's speech, nor any general study of language either.  Closest thing is French, or Spanish, that most people don't speak.  I said it before, it is a wonder how so complex maths that are never used commonly get to have so much room and attention, yet deep and linguistic studies of the primary language that almost everyone in our countries uses, in almost every activity in life, doesn't even get a class of its own.   The only "English" I ever met at school was studying English literature, reading and writing, without any thorough study of the language itself.  I believe that learning language better does indeed mean being able to learn other things better as well.  Problems in language create dams in the ability to think and learn well.  And I know this well enough because I had communication-impediment all my life.  If people can't use language well it will get in the way of thinking cleanly and coherently about things they will encounter in future studies.  If their way of using the language is confusing and complicated, they themselves are more likely to find things confusing and complicated.  And in a school-system that is already overcomplicated, that just makes a further burden.  There are already the burdens of dull greekish terminologies that complicate mathematics and science, so that the student must learn that Greek too, but it shall still be English that is the main means among those parts holding them up in any form of learning.  

There is also no Philosophy or Religions' course at high school, which is a hard shame in my opinion.  Philosophy is the direct study of wisdom, morality, perspectives, critical judgement and many other things that I don't think anyone at this forum doubts are very important to learning.  I don't understand why there is no space for Philosophy or Religion at highschool.  Once again, there is enough room for very complicated maths and sciences.  But a study that directly and personally helps learn and think about things doesn't even get a class.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (04-17-2006 09:47 AM).]

Knubian
Junior Member
since 03-25-2006
Posts 27
Louisiana, United States


4 posted 04-17-2006 10:08 AM       View Profile for Knubian   Email Knubian   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Knubian's Home Page   View IP for Knubian

Quote:
________________________________________________________________________The depressing thing is that if I’m right the solution would require a dramatic shift in society and societal values, so dramatic in fact that it’s unlikely to happen.

I hope I’m wrong.
________________________________________________________________________


Some of our problem is also  the adult who have brought into the “keeping up with the Jones’es” fast pace, get rich quick schemes” that do involve becoming rap stars, athletes and lotto winners.  We as adults no that, that walk of life is often unrealistic and only favor a small few, but we still encourage and push our children down this road and don’t what to do when the bow breaks.  And our children have nothing to fall back on, least of all… their short-changed education.

Part of the problem, cause and effect, children become gang, drug, and negative affiliated with questionable cults, groups and organizations, that don’t always have these children best interest in mind.  

So how do boys and girls clubs complete?  How do after-school programs hold a child’s attention beyond ten and eleven years old?  I’m not coming down on reality programming or sexual symbolism, but we don’t have child-censors of television and movie programming.  Every single thing that our children do, can be linked back to allowance and imitations of adult behavior.

My mom was active in the PTA and other community activities and on any given day you could come home and see your teacher sitting and drinking coffee;  or having the entire varsity wrestling team and coaches at your house; and for that fact, even policemen sitting in your home.  

The point is, parents must first get realistic about what type of child they want to raise, and take charge of their “children” lives.  It is obvious that educators and government are still trying to force unrealistic programming that don’t work!  But they keep trying the same things over and over, but expect different results… “it’s called insanity!”  and our children are paying the price.  But yet society as a whole is recouping the benefits of this insanity in unbalanced, uneducated, unhealthy youths.

This doesn’t include every single child, or parent, or educator, there are those who excel above and beyond their present situation(s) and go on to make a mark in society, and when we get the ones who are not rap stars, athletes, and lotto winners, you will find the mark of a good parent, mentor and educator.  

Regards,
Knubian

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


5 posted 04-17-2006 11:20 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"It is obvious that educators and government are still trying to force unrealistic programming that don’t work! "

I wouldn't generalize that over the whole board.   I think there is a lot of success in mathematics, sciences, arts, and trades.   But I don't think that these should be first and foremost.  The problem is the decline in language-skills to  communicate and reason in oneself better, to speak, read, and write better.  And wisdom and morals are not being taught enough at home or at school.  The side of studying language to understand it better and communicate better and the side of spiritual enlightenment, wisdom, and critical judgement are becoming more and more dwarfed by the excess of math, science, business, and technology.  In short, I don't think math, science, business and technology are more important than language and moral wisdom.  In order for healthier minds and fruitful learning people need to be able to communicate in healthy ways with good language skills, and make healthy judgements with good reason and morals.  


[This message has been edited by Essorant (04-17-2006 12:00 PM).]

Knubian
Junior Member
since 03-25-2006
Posts 27
Louisiana, United States


6 posted 04-18-2006 08:17 AM       View Profile for Knubian   Email Knubian   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Knubian's Home Page   View IP for Knubian


-----------
Quote:

I wouldn't generalize that over the whole board.
------------

And why not?  It’s the general truth of the whole!

Governments don’t raise children; and basically are not in the child-rearing business.  They are in the governing of policies, constitutions, and diplomacy business.  But historically they have allowed themselves dwell into the lobbyist business and nothing that governs in the ways and means of benefiting the mass-majority are true anymore.  Yet, we continue to vote the same person or persons back into office term after term.  

Democrats for instance, the liberal party, the peoples party, lately… the silent party; have been “so busy trying to keep their jobs, they have forgotten to do their jobs. (Michael Douglas - An American President),” and in the meantime the great divide political cronyism that divide the rich from the poor, the strong from the weak and the literate from the illiterate has broaden.  

But what are we to do, those of us, the little men and women whom live “in it” everyday and see firsthand the fruits of a thirty-year labor of the down fall of education, health and mental stability of our children and society as a whole?  What is the message that we as adults are sending out to our youths and people of the world - that we have no say so in how a government that was built for the people no longer works for the people, which is extended to every citizen… including our children?

Do we as adults suffer our children onto this because we have allowed politics to play vital roles in education, in the same prejudicial way that we divided the church and the state.  It is the same… as the church should not govern in politics, politics should not govern in education beyond policy’s of enforcement that everyone has a right to one; as every politician has a right to a religious preference.

The minute education became a business, sold to the highest backer, booster clubs became lobbyist; and politicians jumped on board and read us speeches and dialogs of great educators gone by and we bit.  But not only did we just bite, we told them that they knew more than our educators did and that they, and not our educators should take over our school systems and ultimately our children educational rearing.

There is a great debate concerning religion and the constitution in schools today.  And as such, the judicial system has been called in to make decisions of what and which should be allowed inside, outside or about the premises.  Now these people are scholars, yet in their on fields and as such they should stick to their fields of religion, governance and law, and leave what happens in the classroom to educators and the community.  -  Unless someone is not allowed to go to school because of their race, religion and political affiliation.  

All of this nonsense over whether a pledge of legion should be said; or whether the ten commandments should be posted somewhere is a distraction from the educational process that should be taking place in that schoolhouse.  We have bigger fish to fry!… We are losing our children and their futures as well as our own, while they campaign to have their names recorded in historic documents to boaster their mark on history.                
    
People who truly want change in the future of our nation embark on it by making change happen by educating even the least educate-able to a “general standard of knowledge ill-regard to race, creed, nationality, political affiliation or religious preference.”  It is the only way that our nation can guarantee a future not driven by ignorance, power, greed or religious fanaticism!  The melting-pot of American society must be represented by all walks of individualism, therefore, every part American history and society should be posted in the schoolhouse.

Governments, politicians and religious leaders do not raise and educate children, communities do!  To keep voting the same politician back in office term after term is insanity amidst voters!  To keep allowing the same school superintendent in office to sale our education system term after term is insanity amidst the community!  To allow religious fanaticism to sideline the educational process is insanity amidst society!  

Here is the fine point of it; once we realize that we in-fact have position the wrong person in a position of governance over our lives, and subsequently our children lives and education, we want that person impeached… thrown out of office… driven from governance… ran out of town on a rail!  Yet we find ourselves buying back into the same baloney year after year… election after election!


--------------
Quote:

And wisdom and morals are not being taught enough at home or at school.
---------------

You can not teach wisdom… period!

And as for morals, how can you teach these to someone that has no general knowledge of reasoning?

Regards,
Knubian

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


7 posted 04-18-2006 08:09 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
The problem is that we have pushed our children through these accelerated learning programs trying to keep up with Asian students of the world that we have forgotten about basic reading, writing and arithmetic skills.  To sit three, four and five year old children in front of computers are the cause and effect result that we have today in internet predators.  To allow a child to use a calculator throughout the school year destroys the psyche in failure of test scoring without one.


Keeping up with Asian students? That is easily solved. Asian students learn how to take tests. After that, spend as much waking time as possible memorizing facts, you only need short term memorization tricks, it doesn't matter what those facts are, you just memorize them for the test anyway.

Take, repeat process, take, repeat process.

Do you have any idea how long I could complain about this?


Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


8 posted 04-18-2006 11:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Repetition is the mother of learning"
Knubian
Junior Member
since 03-25-2006
Posts 27
Louisiana, United States


9 posted 04-19-2006 05:23 PM       View Profile for Knubian   Email Knubian   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Knubian's Home Page   View IP for Knubian

This is the reasoning behind my starting this thread… you just can’t say language; or just say mathematics, but it’s just my small opinion that it must be the whole educational process that embrace every aspect of education, not just individual parts or subjects.  

Individual parts or subjects are just our favorite… that we wish we had more time to do in studying.  Or maybe it’s just a favorite teacher, or the way that particular teacher teaches.  My whole point is that without the community, parents, educators and mentors taking control of our children educational process, our children as a whole could become worst than they are becoming already.

No, it is not across the board, but it is the general.  But when college recruitment of sports stars begin to outweigh academic recruitment then something’s wrong.  And then I look at the general population of our children and think what went wrong, or what is going on that can be made better.  

We all know that all children are not going to make it college, and that all college sports stars are not going to make it to the pro’s.  so what do we do?  I’m not sure what walk of life anyone else comes from, but I’ve lived among the inner cities of whatever town or city I’ve lived in, and the stories are all the same… the children are all the same!  

I’m not talking about reading driving manual ten minutes before you take you written test for a drivers license.  (But that’s the way I got my CDL).  I’m talking about true education with knowledge that can create a learnable process, so that no child or adult would ever have to worry about not being able to read street signs, understand their pay stubs, or read the directions of the back of a box of hamburger helper.  

“A mind is a terrible thing to waste!”

Regards,
Knubian

jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


10 posted 04-20-2006 08:51 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

quote:
"Repetition is the mother of learning"


And reflection is the mother's milk.
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