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Passions in Poetry

Respect and Tolerance

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JesusChristPose
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since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


75 posted 04-30-2006 08:15 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Christians believe many things about "life after death" on the authority of one who has died, and rose again.  Are you telling me a blind man can't know when to stop walking based upon someone else's authority/ ability?"

~ What does a blind man and walking have to do with a christian's belief about life after death? Have you died and returned to tell us your known truth?    

"And I'll also remind you that in another thread you just recently said:"

~ You are taking my words out of context. If you are going to post one of my numerous quotes, you are going to have to perform much more research and provide to all who are reading with many other quotes to keep what I say in context... yet, you tell me that is what I do with regards to the Bible.

"You can't keep using relativistic arguments, and revelatory statements.  The two don't mix at all."

~ So you say as if what you say is indeed factual, but in reality is your interpretation and is of your opinion.

"It's not a good consistency, if you know what I mean.  So which is it?"

~ You have set up a straw man, and I am not biting.


"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


76 posted 05-01-2006 07:55 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
What does a blind man and walking have to do with a christian's belief about life after death?


Not knowing where you are going, or what is going to happen, has similarities with being physically blind.  The analogy is simple enough to understand.


quote:
Have you died and returned to tell us your known truth?


Of course not.  That's why I used the analogy of a blind man taking someone else's word for it.

quote:
You are taking my words out of context. If you are going to post one of my numerous quotes, you are going to have to perform much more research and provide to all who are reading with many other quotes to keep what I say in context...


I can certainly make a full case, using your quotations.  But I'm not going to, simply because everyone here has read similar replies of yours many times over.  It would be interesting to ask for a show of hands on how many other pipsters think you are significantly inconsistent in your argumentation ... constantly using relativism to debunk other's views, and naked absolutism to bolster your own.  With a work as large and multi-layered as the bible, providing context is more needed, since more than a few have only taken a precursory glance at its texts.  But when the audience is already very familiar with the text, (as is the case with your posts here in philo 101) it's not as necessary to extensively quote.  But believe me, I could.

For weeks I've been asking you to honestly look at what I percieve as a gaping inconsistency in your approach.  Maybe you could explain in what way I've taken you "out of context".  Whenever I tell you that you're taking scripture out of context, I at least try to explain why.
    
How is the "flesh" of your arguments different than the "straw" I've given back to you as your own?  I'm open to listen.


Stephen.
kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


77 posted 06-03-2006 10:05 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Fantastic thread, people. I'm interested in the conversation about belief-systems, and what is True. Belief is not Knowledge, Truth, but I think that different beliefs can bring the same Truth, as long as we remember our beliefs are essentially just opinions. If we follow the right ones, there is a twinkling of Knowledge...? Of course, belief can be wrong!

(The woman, who was hallucinating...my Auntie went through something similar when she was dying. I decided then, that my beliefs should be taken care of properly through life, so when it came to my mind losing touch with my body, it might be less frightening.)

I think all religions are in place for the same reason-safety in numbers. Faith is personal- personal connection to The Universal.

I've been cat-called all the heatheny names under the sun by a supposed Christian, and told in no uncertain terms that I was going to hell, but I think that was more to do with a lack of faith, than a wealth of it, and yes, it was funny.

Who knows, eh? I'm thinking of Plato's cave analogy. When the man left the cave of flickering shadows dancing on the wall, and saw The Real Sun for himself, the thought of going back, to convince the others rapt in the lookalike reflection, of The Real Sun must have been a moral dilemma!

Who would believe him?
As for Respect and Tolerance. Well, they're qualities that can be squashed by their opposites.
Could you respect and tolerate a religious/political group who violently invaded your Country, and outlawed your language and culture? Or, could you tolerate a man enforcing rule his wife, and subjegating her through psychological bullying? It's how we've shaped The World (it's only lately that equality has been given back to people other than 'important white men'). I find it difficult to get over that, and end up respecting and tolerating the disrespectul, and intolerant!?!

ps; I do believe that giving an honest opinion is very mannerly. What's the point of communication if we refuse to communicate, either by stroking someone's hair, and telling them they're right when they sound wrong, or pig-headedly continuing invective against another's opinion, even if, deep down, it might be right? Then, there's the 'saying nothing about hate-speech' and passing that off as Tolerance...grrr!

[This message has been edited by kif kif (06-03-2006 10:47 AM).]

 
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