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soulmates

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icebox
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0 posted 02-04-2006 07:05 PM       View Profile for icebox   Email icebox   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for icebox



Proposition: to search for soulmates is to seek total destruction of the self.

Indulging lust (perceived as love) is a joyful pastime driven by yearning for contact with preferred compatible body types. If well managed, there is little down side. The joy, with or without orgasmic release, lasts until access ends, the tastes change, needs evolve or until a more compatible, or more preferred, body type is encountered.

Soul contact, on the other hand, is not limited to linear time or the limitations of the physical and once achieved, it endures. For the participants the result is an incremental evolution of the soul, and in smaller part a contribution to evolution of the collective human spirit.

However, contact with a true soulmate, or soul twin, always results in the loss of the individuality of the soul for the remainder of that lifetime. The two (or more) so joined are not able to perceive either the self or the other, only the joined product.  The result is an ecstatic state in which all aspects of personality are lost.  One can not exist without the other and either or both (or all) will choose death rather than consider separation.
nakdthoughts
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1 posted 02-04-2006 07:55 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

well...even in marriage I never believed the term soulmate was used...in fact I never heard the term until the internet became so available to the majority. ( then again I am  on the aged  side of life) And I agree, if one says the other is their soulmate and they can't live without them, they have lost a part of themselves. Partner is a more meaningful word along with other endearing ones...I think soulmate is over used today.
But what do I know...I thought mine would last forever...

M
Midnitesun
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2 posted 02-04-2006 08:13 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Icebox, it seems you have a far narrower definition of soulmate than what rests in my mind, for I've never felt a soulmate must be a twin of sorts, nor that the state of being  a soulmate required either loss of 'self space' or identity. But it's a pretty poetic word. Whether it has any concrete meaning is up to the individual 'soulmates' in any given relationship.  
Huan Yi
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3 posted 02-05-2006 01:55 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Soulmates is a currently fashionable
fantasy.  Read Mathew Arnold's "The Buried Life",
(I could cite at least one other
by Mark Strand but I don't think it readily
available for reading).  One can strive
for companionship but in fact there is always
a distance, a separation.


Fee
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4 posted 02-05-2006 06:34 AM       View Profile for Fee   Email Fee   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Fee

I have found my Soul Mate and he believes he has found his.

Now with that comes this connection that neither of us can explain, we know when each other needs each other, even when we are millions of miles apart (he travels for work).

But your right, I did lose part of me when we found each other, I would not know how to survive on my own, the thought of life without him now I have found him, frightens me to death.

We found ourselves through a strange connection, a friendship developed, one that for years was platonic and so deep, we would speak daily, 6 or 7 times. It was about 3 years later that we became lovers.

He is my best, friend, my reason, my rock, my solitude, my own definition of heaven on earth.... and Yes I agree, neither of us could live without each other.

We need each other to get through each day. I can not explain except to say I understand your thoughts.

Big hugs, Fee
Huan Yi
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5 posted 02-05-2006 08:21 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Which brings up the further twist:
are soulmates found or created?
nakdthoughts
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6 posted 02-05-2006 08:46 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts



Main Entry: soul mate
Function: noun: a person temperamentally suited to another

so I guess that is fine until the temperament changes  ...

There are those,  I think, believe a soul mate is one who is perfect for them in just about all ways... and of course..nothing is perfect....

And I find it strange(from experience of others on the internet) especially when people think they have found their soul mate, as they put it, through airwaves, cell phones, computers, without having ever met... especially while living with another partner in marriage or companionship...strange world of definitions we live in.



sorry the old fashionedism (if such a word) still lives in me...and even I have had to learn that with no legal separation in my state...that with abandonment I have in fact been allowed to go forward with my relationship(s) despite not being divorced yet...something I even had to ask to protect myself.
Essorant
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7 posted 02-05-2006 12:28 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Any two people may be soulmates if they are true to each other.  
Mysteria
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8 posted 02-05-2006 01:59 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Soul mate (as defined at Dictionary.com) n.
One of two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity.
quote:
"The result is an ecstatic state in which all aspects of personality are lost.  One can not exist without the other and either or both (or all) will choose death rather than consider separation."
I have trouble with those two sentences Ice, and I will explain.  I think the word "soul mate" is a term used far too loosely lately, and has become a word like “love” that is used without knowing the real meaning.  I see today’s soul mate is actually referring to the dictionary’s version of those words.  It is someone found you can get along with "for now" that suits you, makes you happy, etc. but that is until the climate gets too hot, or cold, then it is splitsville.  

I am like Maureen and old school I guess.  I think that both love and soul mate are verbs, not nouns, and both are something that you do that result in a pleasant experience.  The fruits of your efforts result in something you feel including both pleasant and unpleasant feelings.  In both good times, and the bad you stick it out, work it out, and grow from it.  Both individuals should feel good, and if they don’t then you are neither in love, feeling love, and certainly have no bond with a soul mate, and are wasting your time in a toxic situation and should move on.  I mean from both a "romantic," and a “friendly” relationship sense.  A soul mate can be someone you share your most intimate self with and never have any sexual relationship, as were both of my experiences.  

In fact in your lifetime you are lucky to find one “real” soul mate, and I was lucky enough to have had two, one male, and one female, both are now dead.  One a life long girlfriend, and the other was actually my boss and best friend.  The last thing in those connections was ever the loss of self or as you put it “all aspects of personality are lost.”  In fact, a soul mate puts no restrictions on a relationship, none, and wants you just the way you are in spite of all your flaws, and as they say, “love you in spite of them.”    Two can, and do draw from each other to grow into all they can be without working at it, at least from my experience.  Forgiveness is always at the forefront, as is communication, and there is no room ever for judgement, or feelings of dominance or superiority.

As far as choosing death over separation that is the last thing I would like to think that a real soul mate would ever consider.  I am a believer that any self-administered death is always created from a fear of life.  I find that sad, as there is always an answer or help, always, but the choice to ask is the onus placed on the individual.

I was actually thinking reading this today that maybe you saw the movie, “Sayonara” yesterday?        A person that loved you would never want death for you, and when they are dying actually hang on longer because they are worried about you!  Death is in my opinion, makes us the most selfish we will ever become.  I have seen that twice now in my lifetime, and there truly is nothing more humbling or painful, but it is a gift from a soul mate to you that you accept willingly.   From my own experience, “soul mates,” generally and unknowingly each help the other to live a better life, puts the needs of the other first, and all is done with unconditional love, without judgement of any kind.

A piece of you does actually die when you do loose a soul mate, but the beauty is, that the bond stays with you forever as you will always celebrate their life, and the bond experienced.  To say you can't find another soul mate after yours dies, well I have no answers to that yet, as I haven't found another to replace either of them to date, and probably because they are with me always and cloud my vision to look?  I have some wonderful friends, and those friendships I take equally serious


"There's nothing worse that being an aging young person!" - Richard Pryor
~ Carpe' Diem ~
Huan Yi
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9 posted 02-05-2006 02:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Maureen,


"And I find it strange(from experience of others on the internet) especially when people think they have found their soul mate, as they put it, through airwaves, cell phones, computers, without having ever met... especially while living with another partner in marriage or companionship...strange world of definitions we live in."

It's called distance lends enchantment,
( and a great deal of artistic license
on the part of desperation, hope, or
simple boredom).

The internet is, in that regard, just another
lounge with most of the lights out.


John

P.S.  This recalls my best friend who, having divorced his wife,
is actively seeking companionship, (and with some success), through
the internet.  I love the man like a brother, but his manner,
(unless the topic is hunting, fishing, politics, military history), is about
as attractive as a business letter, ( which should be no surprise
for a general manager).  He reads war books, couldn’t tell Rembrandt
from ravioli and Basho is what you are when you’ve had too many beers,
yet he has suddenly, and more than once recently, found himself the long sought
“soul mate”.  Heck, they send him naked pictures, ( he will not reciprocate
given his weight, thinning hair, and obvious need for thick glasses).
It seems “soul mate” becomes increasingly the expressed goal as the mirror
more and more gives the wrong answer.  It reminds of that story where
the mother tells her son she has the daughter of a friend she wants him to meet
and when he asks what she looks like her reply is “She has a nice personality”.


[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (02-05-2006 03:13 PM).]

Essorant
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10 posted 02-05-2006 03:17 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"The internet is, in that regard, just another
lounge with most of the lights out."

Try adjusting the brightness on your monitor.  
If yours is lacking light doesn't mean everyone elses is.


Local Rebel
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11 posted 02-05-2006 03:25 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Does this mean Diane Lane isn't my soulmate?

darn...

Ice -- you write as one who found a soulmate -- if so, congratulations (and condolences).

If it makes you happy -- I'm happy for it to be defined any way you want it.
littlewing
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12 posted 02-05-2006 05:02 PM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing

Ironically, I have found this and it is a most beautiful existence:

Soul contact, on the other hand, is not limited to linear time or the limitations of the physical and once achieved, it endures. For the participants the result is an incremental evolution of the soul, and in smaller part a contribution to evolution of the collective human spirit.

However, contact with a true soulmate, or soul twin, always results in the loss of the individuality of the soul for the remainder of that lifetime. The two (or more) so joined are not able to perceive either the self or the other, only the joined product.  The result is an ecstatic state in which all aspects of personality are lost.  One can not exist without the other and either or both (or all) will choose death rather than consider separation.


I don't see it as losing self though, moreso rebirth of self through each other.  A new entity.  I also feel that death is used loosely here.

For upon parting, there indeed would be a great spiritual death moreso than a physical death.  I have felt that - I don't want to feel it again.  Physical death has got to be much easier.

I see that type of death here, as purely spiritual, that bond, gone, upon complete seperation.

I have only experienced this once, know I never will again, and it was not my marriage - my relationship for 16 years or anything else like that.

But I cannot imagine this person ever NOT being in my life for when the prospect of that person remotely leaving my life in any fashion came about, spirit left me.

There was a complete void, never to be filled, something only experienced through the joining of my soul with this one soul.

I cannot even explain it.  It is beyond us.  

I just know its there and am ever grateful.

I don't care for the soul mate word either.  It goes way deeper than that - things, we, our race, do not even comprehend.  

I just know it comes from another plane and somehow set itself right in our paths when we needed to be found.  That bond has always been there, seems from the beginning of time.

We KNOW each other.  Cannot explain it any plainer than that.


  
serenity blaze
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13 posted 02-05-2006 05:35 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Proposition: to search for God is to search for total destruction of the self

?

In the course of discourse with myself, I have asked me, do I believe that we are all "one"?

Hmmm. Yep I believe I do.

So if we are collectively actually one entity that for the sake of this conversation we will term "soul"--then in actuality, we are all soulmates.

Now, (and I am addressing Charly here) that leaves me a bit confused as to the conception of the twin flame as it is sometimes termed elsewhere.

More please, sir.
Essorant
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14 posted 02-05-2006 05:49 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"So if we are collectively actually one entity that for the sake of this conversation we will term "soul"--then in actuality, we are all soulmates."


Serenity,
That seems to me a wisest way to approach it.


Huan Yi
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15 posted 02-05-2006 08:14 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


And convenient for promiscuity

Essorant
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16 posted 02-05-2006 09:17 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Isn't Democracy too?  
Local Rebel
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17 posted 02-05-2006 10:12 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

So Diane Lane IS my soulmate?
Mysteria
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18 posted 02-05-2006 10:47 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Sure looks that way Reb, and that would mean that Matthew McConaughey would be mine I guess If I am allowed two, then throw in Brad Pitt for good measure.
Essorant
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19 posted 02-05-2006 10:57 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think we must see a general sense to love and a specific sense.  
Love or soulship with all humans doesn't mean we have the same extraordinary relationship with every one.  Extraordinary love is love that we give extraordinary inspiration too.  It is like fire.  When it is stretched out to everyone it is light.  But when it is extradinarly united it is a star.  When it is fast and brief it is lightning.   Thus the same thing has different bendings, times, thicknesses, thinnesses, quicknesses.  A soulmate on a general sense is like saying a "fellow human that I love and am bound to in the kinship of humanity"  A soulmate on a specific sense is like saying "an intimate lover that I am extraordinarly bound to above all other humans, by loving and being loved by him or her more extraordinarly than all others"


Ratleader
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20 posted 02-06-2006 08:37 PM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

Not destruction -- completion.

I hope the term “soul mate” is the most misused and therefore misunderstood in our common parlance—or vice versa, that is's the most misunderstood and therefore the most misused. If there’s one we treat worse it would be a tragedy. Remember though, that anything I say may be wrong. I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I know a few things and think some others, and may think something else tomorrow if I see things differently then…..so here goes….

I don’t think “soul mate” – the matching of souls – has anything to do with love. People who feel that joining, those who already match in that way, or who feel themselves growing toward it, are more likely to love…but that doesn’t mean the matching/joining of souls IS love, or requires love in order to happen. Lust is also separate from love, and even further removed from joining as “soul mates.”

Every religion I know of makes the growth of the soul one of its most desired components, and most of ‘em make it a main purpose of human existence to care for the spirit you were born with and make it better by the time you die. A religion being about something doesn’t make it right, but if virtually all religions share a common tenet, even if those same religions contradict each other in very basic ways, it’s a pretty good indication that there’s at least something valid in that common thread. So, I think we can make the assumption that it’s about growth, about building spirit, adding a good ring to the tree and maybe a branch or two, while we’re here.

Now a different tack: In the orphanages of communist Rumania, children were raised like puppies in a puppy mill, with a little exposure to language maybe, but no “human contact” with their keepers, body service with no bonding. They became stunted monstrosities, with twisted souls if there ever were such, because they were left without the opportunity for their souls – their spirits – to be taught, shaped, nurtured, through contact with other spirits. In other words, there’s little or nothing to change bad growth in a soul that’s isolated. It may remain unique, but the goal is for the soul to become better, stronger, smoother, more resilient, not just unique.

There are soul mates out there, that’s an absolute certainty, and it is possible for one person to find another person whose spirit matches the shape of their own so well that when they meet there is a binding, a knitting of the fabric that happens without either of them trying for it in any way.  I think that when the bonding comes, it is a bond which will exist from that point on, regardless of space, time or any other dimension, and once it has been formed, may even exist in the past.

Where souls come from is something no one knows, but I don’t accept the idea that all souls form in pairs, yin and yang, and then spend eternity seeking each other after they are split asunder. Just my predilection, no particular reason except that it sounds ‘way too pat, too chick-flick romantic, far too much like Sweet William and Bonnie Barbara Allen (moderns read “Sleepless In Seattle”), to be real. It may happen that way, and I do think it occasionally does happen in a similar way, perhaps with twins….but not as a matter of course.

One thing that does seem real is, if the match is clear enough, and one or both of the two people sensitive enough, one may be aware of the other’s existence even at a great distance, without their ever encountering each other physically. Such people simply know, in the way that the tuned circuit of a radio resonates to some distant station that the listener will never see….or at a more intimate but far more mundane level, the way you will often “just know” when someone is staring at you, whether you can locate them physically or not.

I also think that everything I’ve spoken of so far, is so rare that it’s barely on the radar screen. Far more common is for people who are drawn to each other for other reasons – even lust – to grow together in spirit until they reach a soul mating, knit by time and growing in much the same way as those natural pairs.

Given that the whole idea is to grow your soul and make it better, given that isolation leaves the soul with little nurture and with no way to correct the twists that come from random growing, and given that bonding with other spirits does provide those things, I think that one who finds a soul mate, or feels growth toward soul bonding with another person, but fails to take advantage of the opportunity, cheats their own soul, and will inevitably come to the end of life, as less than they could have been.


~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________


[This message has been edited by Ratleader (02-06-2006 11:43 PM).]

Stephanos
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21 posted 02-06-2006 09:49 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Soul contact ... is not limited to linear time or the limitations of the physical and once achieved, it endures. For the participants the result is an incremental evolution of the soul, and in smaller part a contribution to evolution of the collective human spirit.

However, contact with a true soulmate, or soul twin, always results in the loss of the individuality of the soul for the remainder of that lifetime. The two (or more) so joined are not able to perceive either the self or the other, only the joined product.  The result is an ecstatic state in which all aspects of personality are lost.  One can not exist without the other and either or both (or all) will choose death rather than consider separation.


I'm not sure I understand what you're meaning by "soul mate", but I'll give you my initial thoughts, and we can take it from there...


What you're suggesting, sounds like using human relations as a means to an altered state of consciousness.  If human relationship is just another "estatic" state where everything is perceived as "one", then it is a just a path to a nirvana-like state of dissolution.


If you've already admitted that indivduality is lost, surely the necessity of the relationship itself is lost too, since this is not the only way to such a state of consciousness.  Mystical literature of all kinds attests to many "ways" to such a feeling.  Isn't the self, and the relationship, subject to becoming trivial, irrelevant, devalued?  


You've sort of dismissed traditional relationships by pointing out that too often "lust" can be mistaken for love.  But what about the possibility of love being real?  There are beautiful marriages, without the mystical practice, where a great degree of satisfaction is obtained ... even a deep "oneness".  


I guess I'm just trying to compare what you're saying with what I know of Christian Marriage.  The Christian take on marriage is similar to the take on theology in general ... a great degree of intimacy is possible, but individuality is not lost, nor viewed as "evil".  God wanted us to be ourselves, and yet be able to love someone outside of ourself.


So I guess my questions are: 1) Is loss of individuality a good or desirable thing? and why?  and 2) Will personal relationships be devalued, or trivialized, if they are viewed as means to an impersonal end?


  
Stephen.

Martie
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22 posted 02-06-2006 10:56 PM       View Profile for Martie   Email Martie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Martie's Home Page   View IP for Martie

stephan

"So I guess my questions are: 1) Is loss of individuality a good or desirable thing? and why?  and 2) Will personal relationships be devalued, or trivialized, if they are viewed as means to an impersonal end?"

My take on what icebox is saying is that 1) loss of individuality IS NOT a good or desirable thing and therefore, soulmating is not a good and valuable thing.  Charly...be sure to say if I'm wrong here.  

I agree with Ed and Essorant.  Essorant said:

"Extraordinary love is love that we give extraordinary inspiration too.  It is like fire.  When it is stretched out to everyone it is light.  But when it is extradinarly united it is a star.  When it is fast and brief it is lightning.   Thus the same thing has different bendings, times, thicknesses, thinnesses, quicknesses.  A soulmate on a general sense is like saying a "fellow human that I love and am bound to in the kinship of humanity"

And Ed...this last part of what he said really seems right to me:

"I think that one who finds a soul mate, or feels growth toward soul bonding with another person, but fails to take advantage of the opportunity, cheats their own soul, and will inevitably come to the end of life, as less than they could have been."

Like everything, we all experience life in a different way, thoughts and experiences  about soulmates are no different.  I think it's true that many romantisize the idea, but I also think that this kind of relationship is a true thing that can happen, and should, and makes each person better for themselves and others.  To know love from a soulmate, and I do think it is unconditional, is to experience the best of being alive.

icebox...I'm glad you brought up this subject, as it fascinates me.  I hope others will offer up their feelings and opinions in this thread.  I know we won't all agree on everything, but seems like at least on one thing we agree, that is that soulmates do exist.
Astaroth_Fox2
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23 posted 02-07-2006 12:42 PM       View Profile for Astaroth_Fox2   Email Astaroth_Fox2   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Astaroth_Fox2

I belive that the Soulmate is a misconstrued idea. It is to be belived that souls can actualy connect. I belive that the only time this would be possable is a simultainious near death experience, where one dosn't necessarily expeirience soul contact. So, my belife is, soulmates simply happen by chance, and are created by severe shared trauma.
iliana
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24 posted 02-08-2006 06:48 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

What an interesting thread!  

Charly, I have to agree with you that “to search for soulmates is to seek total destruction of the self,” that soul contact is not limited to linear time, and that it does contribute to the growth of one’s own soul.  The word “self” is the key.  

Littlewing, in my view, seems on target with her response that the “death” is a spiritual one.  

What I am not sure of is whether or not it is possible to have more than one soul mate; whether there is that one and only love of all life times.  It seems to me that there are, what I call, soul clusters.  In other words, a number of different players in our incarnation that have chosen (out of love) to play certain roles in the development of our souls.  I think all too often a soul cluster member gets confused with a soul mate.  There’s the rub, and usually the growth lesson, perhaps.  I like Sting’s lyrics to “A Thousand Years:”    

A thousand years, a thousand more
A thousand times a million doors to eternity
I may have lived a thousand lives, a thousand times
An endless turning stairway climbs
To a tower of souls
If it takes another thousand years, a thousand wars,
The towers rise to numberless floors in space
I could shed another million tears, a million breaths,
A million names but only one truth to face
A million roads, a million fears
A million suns, ten million years of uncertainty
I could speak a million lies, a million songs,
A million rights, a million wrongs in this balance of time
But if there was a single truth, a single light
A single thought, a singular touch of grace
Then following this single point, this single flame,
This single haunted memory of your face
I still love youI still want you
A thousand times the mysteries unfold themselves
Like galaxies in my head
I may be numberless, I may be innocent
I may know many things, I may be ignorant
Or I could ride with kings and conquer many lands
Or win this world at cards and let it slip my hands
I could be cannon food, destroyed a thousand times
Reborn as fortune's child to judge another's crimes
Or wear this pilgrim's cloak, or be a common thief
I've kept this single faith, I have but one belief
I still love you
I still want you
A thousand times the mysteries unfold themselves
Like galaxies in my head
On and on the mysteries unwind themselves
Eternities still unsaid
'Til you love me


Many times, it occurs to me, the true soul mate is unattainable, thus leading to more than one spiritual death.  It wouldn’t surprise me, however, if having found the unattainble that the continuation of the soul’s existence in connection to the human form would no longer be a necessity.
 
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