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serenity blaze
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50 posted 12-03-2005 10:59 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Tell him I said Happy Birthday.



and smiling here, it's always the shy ones who amaze me the most.
Kaoru
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where the wild flowers grow


51 posted 12-04-2005 05:08 PM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

Philosophy can be just as important to women as men, and not simply because men may or may not find it important and women feel they might chime in when they agree!

I love philosophy, it's something that DOES have passion. It is the overwhelming desire to learn about something of which you have no clue, and still may have no clue even after you've learned all you possibly can. The possibilities are endless...

Anyway, I can't really say WHY I haven't participated in the forums.. I guess I just don't ever think on my ideas enough to think they're worth sharing..hehe, but maybe they are.

Or, I've lost touch with my curiousity. Wah!
Midnitesun
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52 posted 12-04-2005 07:55 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

What a fun philos0-poophy thread, Karen! thanks!

Ken
quote:
When she walks in the door, she gets on a conference call with 4 girl friends to discuss his facial expressions.  
Meanwhile, he pops a beer and turns on an NBA game he's taped.  He has no idea what just happened.


and Ron? I NEVER choose to do the laundry...it simply attacks me as I walk in the back door where the washer resides. LOL If I want to make it safely into the kitchen, I must first grab a handful of that stinky stuff and shove it into the washer.  
Larry C
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53 posted 12-05-2005 10:23 AM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Hey! I do laundry and I even iron. Plus I love to bake and cook. I do dished and housekeeping (I even change sheets). But I practically never do windows. And as is apparent in this thread I don't even do philosphy. So admit it, it's hard to pigeon hole every man.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.
serenity blaze
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54 posted 12-05-2005 10:35 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Larry?

It is indeed hard to pigeon hole every man.

But I tried dag-nabbit.

and *wink*
Midnitesun
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55 posted 12-05-2005 01:30 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Hey Larry, ask sweet Nancy if I can borrow you for a week or three???? LOL.
And I'll even do my own windows!
Heck, I'll come down to AZ and do yours too!
just kiddin (about your windows)
Susan Caldwell
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56 posted 12-05-2005 03:36 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

I do not participate in the debates/discussions because I feel like I am in water over my head.  (No need for back pats here...I know my limitations).  There are a lot of extremely intelligent people here and although my opinion/belief may hold water (at least to me) I would only embarrass myself trying to express it.

  so I keep to watching.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

hush
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57 posted 12-05-2005 04:58 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

"Debates beg for a winner.

Conversations are more of an exploration."

I think that's the whole point. Men tend to debate, while women tend to converse. My boyfriend always gets pissed when I refuse to take a solid stance on an issue, but I simply don't want to rule out any possibilities. Who am I to say that God does or does not exist, or whether entropy truly is a governing force in our existence (one that's been plaguing him lately)?

A good example is the abortion debate. I take a hesitant pro-choice position not because I approve of abortion- I just think the rules governing our land don't necessarily govern a woman's (or a man's) body. Why? It's that intuition thing.

I don't necessarily think women are naturally more intuitive than men, it's just more socially acceptable for us to express it. In society, women are supposed to say "I feel" and men are supposed to say "I think." My opinion (after writing an extensive paper on male rape and how gender roles negatively affect male victims' social and psychological outcomes) is that men and women both have equal capacity to think and feel, but because of socially acceptable ways we are supposed to behave, men are supposed to express thoughts, and women feelings. It's not just an issue of women being oppressed due to misogyny or sexism or what-have-you, it's the fact that both genders are constricted by social sanctions governing our behavior.

Now, having been raised by a single mother, I was taught to voice my opinions and express my thoughts. In grade school, however, I did feel ostracized from my female peers who apparently did not care for "intellectual" conversations (insofar as 11 year olds can intellectually converse) but rather who liked what boy, who had cute clothes, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

However, it is equally likely that boiys were confined to areas of competition (sports) and "thinking." I wouldn't know, I was never an 11 year old boy.

Now, however, I don't care, and I flap my lips and let loose my "thinking" thoughts whenever the desire hits me, even when logically, it shouldn't.
Larry C
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58 posted 12-05-2005 06:50 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C


hush,
quote:

Now, however, I don't care, and I flap my lips and let loose my "thinking" thoughts whenever the desire hits me, even when logically, it shouldn't.



You crack me up! So now I'm trying to figure out how you chose your pen name.

Karen,
quote:

It is indeed hard to pigeon hole every man.

But I tried dag-nabbit.


I meant figuratively!

Kacy!
See you should have given me your address last summer when I was there.  

latearrival
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59 posted 12-06-2005 02:56 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Serenity and others, I work for Embry Riddle Aeronautical University and today the magazine came out. (I am not on campus as I work as a contract person to the FAA.)  One of the featured stories was about a young woman sophomore majoring in mechanical engineering.  She tells of   Plato’s, The Allegory of the Cave. “In it he makes a comparison between philosophers as individuals who see things at a higher perspective and regular people who are not quite capable of grasping higher concepts. This young woman relates her experiences when she came from another country and moved to a state here in the United States. I do not know if I can quote the article, as I did not write it obviously. But her explanation of why she felt so out of place among her peers was interesting. They did not understand the things she talked about and had less ambition. Until she realized they had never left their small town and or seen anything beside the area where they lived.  She was a little harsh on the town and the kids there so I cannot mention it. But I think she was on the right track on why woman or men for that matter do not always realize their potential.  She had the ambition and vision to go out and get a good education in the field she was interested in. The other young women interviewed were all of the same caliber. I noticed they all had parents who were on their side, who were interested and active in their lives, who taught them they could do anything they put their mind to. This particular young lady said she was looked down upon by her peers and was very disappointed but had set a goal and went after it. The others interviewed all seem to have shared an early determination of what they were interested in life and how to go about getting there. I found the interviews very interesting, because Embry Riddle is predominately filled with young men, these gals are already setting a precedent. Good luck to them all. And now to go check out The Allegory of the Cave.  Best, martyjo
LeeJ
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60 posted 12-06-2005 08:56 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

She tells of   Plato’s, The Allegory of the Cave. “In it he makes a comparison between philosophers as individuals who see things at a higher perspective and regular people who are not quite capable of grasping higher concepts.


Now there ya go, I have always known this to be true, but the minute I vocalized it, boy oh boy, I got a double barreled shotgun salute by those who were intimidated by this.

Yanno, there are people who are actually afraid to learn, to venture out into the darkness of questions...conditioned and afraid to go forth and simply investigate on their own.  And yes, there are certainly people with higher perceptives...just as those who have suffered difficult lives and have changed emensely from it...they to are extra sensitive to other dimensions and nature's proof of a much much deeper sense of plains and mystery.
Yes, yes, yes, tis true....

Poets, artists, are deeply insightful, sometimes not even aware of their messages....isn't it profound?

I don't believe God stops at any one religion...I believe He is so much much deeper and so much more then what is written in the Bible....considering the dimensions, other plains, the spiritual proof on experiencing human bonds....with nature and all things, the great connection...


Hugs to ya
latearrival
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61 posted 12-06-2005 09:52 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

"I don't believe God stops at any one religion...I believe He is so much deeper and so much more then what is written in the Bible....considering the dimensions, other plains, the spiritual proof on experiencing human bonds....with nature and all things, the great connection..."    I agree with you here.  I always thought that because of people needing different steps to lead them to a higher calling so they have to have different roads.  All roads should ideally lead to the same God.  I never felt comfortable with a lot of pomp so I prefer a quiet place outdoors to think clearly.  But as have I said, I can go to a high church service if it means something to someone else and still derive a benefit. How would we know what we need or want if we have nothing else with which to compare?  Just  my  thoughts.  martyjo

LeeJ
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62 posted 12-06-2005 11:06 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Amen!

Like women right?  hehe
hush
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63 posted 12-06-2005 09:38 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Larry-

S'posed to remind me to shut up once in a while. Doesn't exactly work.
LeeJ
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64 posted 12-07-2005 07:56 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I'd also like to add, it has been, my experience, to have found some, not all, men to be much more sensitive then women.  

Once, a long time ago, and I feel very bad about this...a man I worked with wore shorts to work, we were always kidding each other, and so, I kidded him about his legs...thinking it all to be in fun...but, I hurt that poor souls feelings, and he never wore shorts again.

I also have quit a few male friends who have been treated badly by their wives, abused verbally, cheated on...and they are less apt to bounce back and trust again...they're afraid...very afraid....and it's so sad...my oh my, if only we thought first before we acted out and hurt so many others?

But yes, growing up the only girl in the neighborhood, I also found that a lot of boys were intimidated by smart, successful and independent girls...

They seem to fear that word independence, which doesn't mean they are less able to love you, but probably diverse intellectual woman with a hunger for knowledge, travel, cultures, history.  But they don't need to be with a man 24/7, yanno?  

There is nothing wrong with both partners having quality time of their own, without the other...I don't think anyway.  

Philosophy is thought provoking and fresh, alive, keeps the brain active....

but I do think women have a lot of great and valuable ideas to add to conversation, especially Karen...hehe, it's just that so many have been and are still being surpressed by men...

and it is still not altogether sociably acceptable by men. Not all men, mind you...

I work for a boss who doesn't like it when women have an opinion which is opposite from his.  He doesn't like to hear the truth, he takes it as a personal attack against his personality...it's his culture, I think, his upbringing...he wants you to simply smile and agree...I can't do that..., I just can't.  

But in the generations to come, this to will change more and more, with time and understanding, and that percentage of men out there who will teach their children and grandchildren, to allow women... I hope?

I believe, it's our job to teach our daughters, sons, it's ok and very important to have opinions and views, and they should never compromise they're beliefs or identity simply to be a couple...to teach them to be confident, self supporting and content... and respectful to the opinions/beliefs of others, the importantance of sharing, and allowing as well as listening.  To be open to ideas...of others, and not fear the darkness, but to explore it and themselves?  
latearrival
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65 posted 12-07-2005 09:49 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Lee I could answer each paragraph. And I did! I copied it to word and answered in red after each paragraph. But there is no way I can see to re post it that way. So all I can say is I agree with all you said.

On a lighter note I will just tell about Jackie as a six or seven year old. She played with the boy across the street in our cul-de-sac. She always wore slacks  but with a girls blouse.  They were good friends. One day after they had been playmates for at least a year she was invited to his birthday party along with the other boys in the neighborhood. She wore a dress to the party and poor Thacher was in for big surprise. He told his Mom that he had always thought Jackie was a boy!  Because of her name.
I think she was  more intimated by girls than boys.  best to you, martyjo
LeeJ
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66 posted 12-07-2005 12:10 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

oh darn martyjo, I really wish I could have seen what you wrote
could you possibly email it to me?

Lee J.
Baba Michi
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67 posted 12-08-2005 07:16 PM       View Profile for Baba Michi   Email Baba Michi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Baba Michi

I agree with you, Latearrival, in that spiritual/intellectual ambition can override gender stereotypes.  I believe that, despite hormonal difficulties, there are mysterious, intuitive, and sensitive feminine elements within the human psyche that help us with things like poetry and religion, because we can better understand symbols at the non-linear, illogical level.  Feminity is alot of times associated with access to the spirit realm (certain shamans in the northern tribes of alaska used to paint breasts on their clothes), and I also don't think it is a coincidence that the Greek muses are all female.  I also believe that connecting to the rational and logical part of the psyche which is generally accredited to males can be very helpful in dealing with purely physical things like fixing cars and solving complex physics problems.  

Studies show that females in the first grade show a completely equal capacity for mathematics and science as males.  I think that we learn early on to restrict ourselves to the resources within our psyche which create the path of least resistance socially; boys learn not to show their emotions to avoid being called weak for crying, and no girl wants to wear the stigma of being a "dyke" or an "uppity bitch" for being strong and outspoken.  Of course, there are many other factors like testosterone, which I agree plays a huge role in the way thinkers interact with one another, and someone whose motives are not to prove the other person wrong and achieve intellectual victory at all costs is probably not going to be as likely to enter such social circles.  

However, getting back to my main point, I think that both the male and female areas of the mind are there to be used by whoever has the courage to do so, and can then be used to make one's philosophy richer and more relevant.  For me it has always been a matter of keeping things balanced despite what others might think, using the beautiful mystery of feminine intuition to pinpoint the truth, and then masculine logic to express it rationally and then beat someone with a chair if they don't agree with you.  
latearrival
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68 posted 12-09-2005 05:20 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Baba Michi: I made a mistake in copying a   part of LeeJ's post. It was she who wrote this.   (quote) I don't believe God stops at any one religion...I believe He is so much deeper and so much more then what is written in the Bible....considering the dimensions, other plains, the spiritual proof on experiencing human bonds....with nature and all things, the great connection..."(/quote)    She is the one who wrote the post to which you are referring.I think we are all three in agreement though. best, martyjo
latearrival
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69 posted 12-09-2005 05:21 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

I did it wrong again.no bars. quote I am trying /quote

still doing it wrong... DUH
serenity blaze
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70 posted 12-09-2005 05:53 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

marty?

I still can't do the quote thingie.
ice
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71 posted 12-09-2005 06:21 PM       View Profile for ice   Email ice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ice

­Just got done catching up on reading this thread..
Sheesh! I am drowning in a sea of thought, this is great,
But I am late on returning,... so will not go over the finer points that so many have made here....adding only that many are well taken...

What I will do is post a few quotes about the subject of female intelligence and philosophical abilities...

Most of the quotes say my sentiments exactly, worded much better than I ever could......one is pure bull, and was written by a man who was speaking with the sexist atitude of his day.....something, unfortunately that still exists in some circles
*
Simone De Beauvoir (1908-1986)
"The most mediocre of males feels himself a demigod as compared with women."

"Representation of the world, like the world itself, is the work of men; they describe it from their own point of view, which they confuse with the absolute truth"
*

William Wordsworth
"A perfect woman, nobly planned, To warn, to comfort, and command; And yet a Spirit still, and bright With something of angelic light."
( "angelic light", wondeful that it is so...being a romantic, Billy just had to add that.....   
*

Michel de Montaigne: (1533-1592) (A man far ahead of his time)

"I say that male and female are cast in the same mould: save for education and custom the difference between them is not great. In The Republic Plato summons both men and women indifferently to a community of all studies, administrations, offices and vocations both in peace and war; Antisthenes the philosopher removed any distinction between their virtue and our own."
*

Charlotte Bronte... on the Power of Women
"I am no bird; and no net ensnares me; I am a free human being with an independent will."
*
Petronius (c.27-66 AD)
   "Outward beauty is not enough; to be truly heard a woman must use words, wit, playfulness, sweet-talk, and laughter to transcend the gifts of Nature"

(even the early scholars knew that women had it rough in the field of philosophy...you all had to work harder to be heard, by transcending your own special charms ("gifts of nature")...earlier in the thread there was a discussion about looking a woman in the eyes when you speak to her...
This quote reminded me of that discussion)
*
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1920)
"When a woman has scholarly inclinations there is usually something wrong with her sexuality"
(Freddy was an ass sometimes)
*

Yesterday was the death anniversary of a great songwriter and poet....
John Lennon was and still is a great inspiration to me...."Imagine" works its magic, almost every time I sit down to write something philosophical or poetical

He knew about the trouble  women had in finding equal footing on the earth with men....and so, even in his (our) day a lot of men still need to keep women down.....John knew this and wrote a song about it...some of you may have heard it.....It has the "N" word in it....as it should, considering the message he was trying to get across....hopefully no one is offended by the title...

Woman is the nigger of the world (excerpt)
By John Lennon

"We make her paint her face and dance
If she won't be a slave, we say that she don't love us
If she's real, we say she's trying to be a man
While putting her down, we pretend that she's above us"

Peace to men and women ,all...

__________ice/ford
     ><>
­­
­
Stephanos
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72 posted 07-13-2006 04:25 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Karen,

I honestly feel that men and women are "wired" differently.  That doesn't mean better or worse.  But our respective strengths and weaknesses create a complementariness (is that a word??) between the sexes.  It doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions to rules, but there is more of a nurturing side to females.  The mistake I think, is in devaluing motherhood (for example) while uplifting philosophy.  It is not without reason that many people have felt philosophy to be detached and often irrelevant.  It is "abstract" thought.  My wife is constantly pulling me out of the clouds and back down to earth.    


But, of course that doesn't mean that women can't be good philosophers, even though I think it is a stronger trait in men.  I just don't think philosophy is a higher calling than other things necessarily.  We have this bad habit of calling some very beatiful things in life, mundane, simply because they aren't as flashy and attention-getting.  


Stephen.
serenity blaze
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73 posted 07-13-2006 05:48 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Loving smiles to you all--and especially Baba Michi for this:

" no girl wants to wear the stigma of being a "dyke" or an "uppity itch" for being strong and outspoken."

No?

"I understand what you mean," nodded the uppity itchy dyke as she typed.

*cracking up now*

Oh dear...I think I am having a compound nervous breakdown now. But nod, I saw this one comin'.

And Stephen, m'bro, "wired DIFFERENTLY"???

I am just plain WIRED.

Essorant
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Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


74 posted 07-13-2006 11:05 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It takes Phil and Sophia to make Philosophy.
 
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