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Philosophy 101
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Come back, Brad!
| Philosophy 101 |
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Come back, Brad! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738
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I have a question: "What makes argument, rational?" |
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| © Copyright 2005 serenity blaze - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
what do you mean by argument, and rational?  |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
yer stealing my thunder, you rolling Reb!  |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: What do you mean? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Actually, it was a legitimate question as I'd like to learn how to present my ideas a bit better. Is there more to this stuff than just saying what I think? I just finished thanking Local Rebel for saying more clearly what I was TRYING to say in another thread. And nodding glum, I even went to Barnes and Nobles to look for a book to help me learn how to write better so I don't come off sounding so hysterical all the time. Serenity is glum, guys.  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Barnes and Nobles? Sounds familiar. Isn't that a comedy team, like Abbot and Costello?  Amazon Link |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thanks Ron. That is much more convenient, but there's no coffee smells, or...inhale....that "new book" smell. *smile* I wish they sold that smell in aerosols. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
the short primer... http://www.philosophyclass.com/logic.htm |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I'm getting a browser bug page with your link Ron... for some reason it thinks I'm using mozilla when I'm running IE... ??? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I too |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Wow. You don't see the great amazon.com screw up very often, but their search results don't seem to be linkable any longer. I doubt that will last long, as their reputation for usability is well founded, but in the meantime . . . a search for "critical thinking" will return a cornucopia of good offerings. And, Karen, you can do what I do. Order your books, and when you see the UPS truck pull onto your street, start a fresh pot of coffee. You get the coffee smell, the new book smell, and all WITHOUT ever standing in a line. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Wow. I thought that browser thing was something I did. And Ron, I must confess ulterior motives for the bookstore forays. I figger a bookstore has gotta have some intelligent men in there, and sometimes I go in there to remind myself what one looks like in the flesh.  Your way, the only option is the UPS guy, and my dog, Annie, literally tries to kill that action. And I was wondering if you had the name of a particular book in mind, would ya mind just telling me?  (and sheesh, Ron, don't ya like to go anywhere?) wow |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Not really. quote: Not really. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Karen, I'm trying to figure out more precisely what you're looking for. Are you looking for something like "Logic 101", "Philosophy 101", or "Expressive writing 101"? Because, remember, good expression and good thinking don't always go together. There have been some amazing writers whose philosophies aren't worth spitting at, and vice-versa. But anyway, if you let me know more exactly what you're aiming at, I might be able to give you some recommendations. BTW, I love Barnes and Nobles too. Just being in a room with that many books gives me a rush .... (or maybe it's the coffee) At any rate, my wife doesn't like me to go very often, because she can't seem to get me without resorting to physical force.Stephen. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
http://www.odessa.edu/dept/english/mjordan/2nd_essay.htm Serenity, I Googled this site by typing in "how to argue rationally". Maybe it will give you a boost? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thanks everybody. And I DID find something in the stacks at B&N too, and my question was addressed in the intoduction! (I get a little "rush" when that happens.) And I will bookmark all the links you have all kindly provided too. And now, if I understand this correctly, the first step to appearing rational is to put the gun down. (Just kidding Ron. )I'll be around--I'm having a 'the-husband-is-home' kinda day.  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"And I DID find something in the stacks at B&N too, and my question was addressed in the intoduction! (I get a little "rush" when that happens.)" What book did you find? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"What Philosophers THINK" edited by Julian Baggini & Jeremy Stangroom and there's not much else I can say about it yet, since I bought it for the introduction. (and I'm still immersed Faulkner right now, but I'm getting a round to it) But in the intro, there was my question, "What makes an argument rational?" And they point out that is a philosophical question in itself. *chuckle* This stuff can be maddening.  Prolly why I'm interested, what with masochistic tendencies and a martyr complex and all. *hugs* Ess. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
AND? It was on the "clearance" stack (Ron) four bucks, new book and coffee smells too. I thought it was worth the trip. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
A rational argument is based on two things: 1. consistency 2. focus That doesn't mean it is necessarily right. It does mean that it can't be argued on its own merits. That is, it makes sense. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Rational: A corruption of the phrase "rash and null" Such corruptions take place in languages thro very high frequency of usage. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Serenity/Karen Your a gal after my own heart...and I know what you mean, b/c I have the identical problem...especially in person...bad enough, so many people take my words wrong cuz I guess I think out loud, not meaning to insult, but somehow, seem to insult others... and yeah, I'd certainly like to know how to better my communication skills to...so when you get some answers, let me know, K? Love ya and thank you for this thread |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
A good way to better communication skills is reading aloud from a book that has wonderful wordcraft and grammar. Virgil's and Shakespeare's works are good choices. But you may choose Poetry or Prose, or Earlier or Modern work. Though it is best to have a longer work for this. Every day take some time to make sure to read a long length of it aloud and as clearly as possible. If you really want to be serious you may even record your voice and then listen to it on the recording afterward, where you may more critically judge your own voice and clarity in speech. It may sound like it is not something that may help spontaneous speech; but I think it does. Speech is full of habits that become like instincts. The more you practice among good habits, the more those good habits become like instincts to you. I hope that helps |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Hey Ess...how are you? Sounds like a great idea...but, what does one do if they are a very emotional speaker, being very passionate about the topic to the point of taking it very personal...would your advice then apply? |
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Baba Michi Junior Member
since 2005-12-07
Posts 40Southern Germany |
I think something that would greatly help you would be to learn the parts of a Roman Oration. I'm sure you could google it. It gives you a very handy structure around which to base your argument, so that it is coherent and rational. I don't think there is anything wrong with being passionate in an argument. It can have a good effect, as long as it doesn't degenerate into hysteria... DON'T YOU THINK?! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thanks for the advice Baba. I think I'll do just that. It sounds interesting. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Yo, Baba! Is this what you were referring to? "CORAX'S PRINCIPLES OF LEGAL ORATORY *The Proem or opening address creating the right mood. introducing the general outlines *The statement of the facts in the case *The argument or inferences made from the facts *Tying up all the loose ends. *The Peroration or persuasive and convincing close to the speech" I just might be able to do that.  |
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Baba Michi Junior Member
since 2005-12-07
Posts 40Southern Germany |
I tried it myself, and it turns out that the parts of the Roman Oration are sort've hard to find. What you have found will work perfectly, but this is what I was referring to. I. Exordium--introduction to arouse interest II. Narratio--statement of the facts III. Propositio--statement of what is to be proved IV. Argumentatio 1. Confirmatio--affirmative arguments 2. Confutatio--refutation of opposing arguments V. Peroratio--conclusion Good luck arguing! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Very cool, Baba. I appreciate it much. (I'm okay at research, but I tend to get sidetracked when something else strikes my fancy.) I'd just like to be able to play with the big boys, yanno? You have my gratitude. Saving that now. |
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icebox Member Elite
since 2003-05-03
Posts 4383in the shadows |
...hmmmm...and all this time I thought "Argumentatio" was the thin sliced cold cuts and veggies that get put on top of Arugala. *grin* |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
grinning back... I would pounce on you if I didn't think I'd knock the wind outta ya! |
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