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Passions in Poetry

The Cost of Male

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 06-23-2005 07:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


I’ve just listened to a European news report
that says there is a press in Sweden
to put a tax on all men
for the  cost of violence
done to women.

Thoughts?

How about in the US, England, Germany, France,
Japan, China, India, Saudi Arabia?


timothysangel1973
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since 12-03-2001
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Never close enough


1 posted 06-23-2005 10:17 PM       View Profile for timothysangel1973   Email timothysangel1973   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit timothysangel1973's Home Page   View IP for timothysangel1973

Well as a woman (and former victom) of domestic violence I would say YES

However, not all men beat and abuse their wives, and not all men that are accused of it are guilty.  

Then, there are a few that do this sort of thing and never get caught.

I would say... depending on the charge, and the extent of the charge, then that would determine what "tax" should be placed on a man.  

Here in SC our gov't just signed a much more strict law in concerning domestic violence, and it can carry some very serious jail time now which is what we need to say to these men & women that beat their spouses.  

It's not a hush hush topic anymore, and thats a good thing.  

I am always reminded of a billboard sign in NC when I think of domestic violence and violence against women...

It is a casket with a beautiful spray of flowers across it and the caption reads:

"He hit her 150 times... she only got flowers once."

So you see... it took death for her to be safe, un-harmed, not in fear, and to get those flowers.

Sad...

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 06-29-2005 07:57 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“By Wendy McElroy

The Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) will expire this September if it is not reauthorized by Congress. Largely viewed as an anti-domestic violence measure, VAWA has become a flashpoint for the men's rights advocates who see it instead as the living symbol of anti-male bias in law.

Although a significant number of domestic violence victims are male, VAWA defines victims as female. As one result, tax-funded domestic violence shelters and services assist women and routinely turn away men, often including older male children.

Estimates vary on the prevalence of male victims. Professor Martin Fiebert of California State University at Long Beach offers a bibliography that "summarizes 170 scholarly investigations, 134 empirical studies and 36 reviews."

It indicates that men and women are victimized at much the same rate. A lower-bound figure is provided by a recent DOJ study: Men constituted 27 percent of the victims of family violence between 1998 and 2002.

Accordingly, men's rights activists not only accuse the VAWA of not merely being unconstitutional for excluding men but also of dismissing the existence of one-quarter to one-half of domestic violence victims.”


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160968,00.html

It’s hard for me to imagine women beating on men . . .
Why would a man put up with it?
Is there an anti-male bias?
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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3 posted 07-06-2005 10:29 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

a tax?????
How gentile?

I say, cut of their your know what's and throw em in jail for life....!!!!

any violence against any other human being should be addressed and upheld to by the law...a tax...what an insult to society....and yes, I'm a tad over zealous here....gives a whole new meaning to the human being, who is supposed to be in control, who says, I hit you or abused you cuz you deserved it...or b/c I couldn't stop myself...sheeesh???? Be it male or female, no gender excluded as I do also know of males being violated by females or other males...

How many murders and preditors are running around free right now?  Is anyone aware of that?  That these men are being set free?

A tax....sheeesh...

and I do not mean any disrespect for you John...but this makes me ill...really ill.

What is wrong with people today?

All men and all women who hurt another should be justly dealt with and there should be a heavy consequence to pay, if proven guilty through a court of law, but of course...?

A tax?  and if the violater is broke, then what...can't get blood out of a stone...sheeshhh, I'm from the old world, do unto others...and throw em in a place where they can no longer hurt anothers life....

I don't look at this so lightly, b/c I know victims and how it has impacted their lives.

the store my cousin worked for was robbed, guys with bats, and a gun, which they held to her head, after they forced her to the floor and stepped on her back...?

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-06-2005 11:01 AM).]

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-06-2005 11:03 AM).]

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


4 posted 07-06-2005 11:37 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"I say, cut of their your know what's and throw em in jail for life....!!!!"

"What is wrong with people today?"


Cruelty is what's wrong with people.  And obviously it is wrong with you too, if you believe that criminals should be treated so foully.  
Cloud 9
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5 posted 07-06-2005 11:58 AM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

OOOOhhh I love this topic.

Tax them???? Why? How will that change them...really? I think the question really should be....Axe them or Tax them?

I do have to agree with LeeJ at this point.

Here in California we have a few facilities for women, one in Chowchilla, and 80% of them are in because she, either, killed her husband/boyfriend or abused him in some way shape or form. And yet what is the percentage of men in prison who abuse thier wives/girlfriends? That percentage is not very high.
Yet some men out there find any reason to hit a woman. My father was unbelievable when he tells me now why he abused my mother. All I hear is alot of excuses and I call him on it. This is exactly why we never talk. My ex was the same way, not only to me, but to his past girlfriends.  

I am not saying all men are like this, because they are not. Therefore the guys/men that don't do this to women are not given a chance all the time due to what the woman has went through.

Tima-
I cried when I read the part about the billboard....so sad but true.

JMO

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
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6 posted 07-06-2005 12:18 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"OOOOhhh I love this topic"


???????
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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7 posted 07-06-2005 01:23 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

And obviously it is wrong with you too, if you believe that criminals should be treated so foully.  


well, perhaps I do sound a bit over exhaggerated...but, if you or someone you love, has ever been horribly abused, sexually/physically or both, especially if it is your child, which I don't wish on anyone...and you've viewed those pictures of that beautiful young girl Shasta, where she walks into a store, holding herself with her arms...looking up at people hoping, praying someone recognizes her?  Adding, I wonder if she also witnessed her brother being killed..can you even begin to imagine what "SHE's" going to go thru the rest of her days? Which inspired this...
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum92/HTML/003836.html

I wanna raise awareness and scream at the top of my lungs, until I can no longer, What is wrong with Society today...?  How many more children have to suffer before we seriously do something drastic, so that a sexual preditor will think before he/she reacts...I know of a good friend, who was sexually lured by a female school teacher when we were in 7th grade...How dare anyone prey on a child?

Essorant...have you ever been physically or mentally assulted, year after year...do you have any idea of the lasting effects...the life altering hysteria, confussion, the innocense devoured....?

Have you ever been beaten over and over again....had someone wrap they're hands around your throat, and you, wondering if, your viewing your last moments in life.

Do you have children that have been sexually molested?

Kindly and sincerely I repeat...I have no sympathy for the criminal...he/she knows right and wrong, unfortunately we have become a society that turns our eyes and excuses such things...thinking this will never happen in my world...and when it does, give a whole new meaning to the words...What has happened to justice...especially when they are set free, to repeat they're crimes over and over again....


I was five years old, and a step father, beat the livin bejesus out of me, b/c I stepped on my parakeet by accident and killed him...then do you know what he did...he made me stand in a corner and hold that dead bird in my cupped hands....

Do you know what physical and mental abuse does to a person?  Have you any idea the strength that some of us have had to munster up...and remain a contributing part of society? And please, spare me the arguing factor, wull, this person was abused, sexually molested...that is a pitiful lame excuse...so was I, and God as my witness, never did the same to anyone else....there is no excuse to harm another person, to scar them for life, take a child's innocense away or enjoy making chilren do pornography flicks.  Or, take a child and sell them into 3rd world countries for prostitution...or were you even aware that that happens?  Yes, this country believes what it choses to believe, as long as it doesn't interfer with each own's personal life.  

Makes me kinda wonder why God doesn't smit those people down right on the spot, before they are allowed to harm another human being, let alone a child?
  
A sexual preditor, and wife/husband/child beater will repeat the offenses....again and again..until they are stopped...so will a player, a man or women who uses others, b/c they're angry and hate the opposite sex...or hunger to fulfill they're so called physical desires...jumping in and out of relationships, like some love starved rabbit.

No...absolutely not, I have no sympathy toward the offenders....I've been there, and know many others who have to...and perhaps this grave rampid sickness in society, has to be cured by locking up the monsters that perform these diviate and abusesive patterns.  

There seems to be no guilt, and if one child in our society is hurt, the guilt rides on all of us, until we wake up and voice that we want these monsters put away for good...

and what the heck...child porn?  sick people, sex has become a religion...sex is not love...it is part of love, and has become to the point of anything goes...sex is power to some....makes them feel worthy, powerful...and yet, they prey on children?  5 year olds and yonger, and what about the priests who use they're stature to gain closeness and use....and I should feel empathy for them? No, I think NOT?  But our society excuses them!  Why?????

Ohhh boy ohhh boy, don't get me started, perhaps this is shallow on my part, but when a child is violated, any child, it tears me up both emotionally and spiritually.

And, I hate to say this, but even Jesus said, "Woe to those, who harms one strand of hair on this child's head"

God, how could you anyone get any gratification out of molesting a child...sick, sick, sick!!!!!!!!

Now, brushing off my skirt and settling down....signing off with

by the way, do you know who was living right next door to me...a convicted murder, whom our justice system thought, he did enough time...and from last Oct. until this past May, if I averaged 4 hours sleep a night that was good!  Why you might say?  Well, b/c he yelled and screamed and beat his wife, until I phoned the cops...or other neighbors did...
he pushed her down in the street, in broad daylight, in front of everyone, and you actually think this guy deserves my sympathy/respect?

Ya know, this is absolutely unacceptable behavior, and people are afraid to come forth and speak that out loud and clear, we should turn our heads to these theives...let them know they will be shunned, and imprisioned...we've become a nation way to liberal...excusing rules, regulations, laws...lack of decency, morals...respect for the lives of another????  Why do you think this is happening?
More people?  Cuz it's been there since the beginning of time, and yet, over and over again, history repeats itself...b/c mankind hates to be cruel to another human being...could I?  It depends on the issues at hand?  But, I tell you true, if someone harmed my child or grandchild or daughter in law....well, shall we say, I better not go there.

Yes, I speak with horrendous emotion on this subject...
sincerely and respectfully with very strong convictions...

Me

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-06-2005 02:02 PM).]

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-06-2005 02:17 PM).]

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-06-2005 02:49 PM).]

Cloud 9
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since 11-05-2004
Posts 988
Ca


8 posted 07-06-2005 02:26 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

Ess-

Yes, I do love this topic...I love raising awareness that it is not o.k. to be hit and no one should put up with it. That's what that comment meant. Anything else you want to disect?
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


9 posted 07-06-2005 02:50 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

and we would rely on our current judicial system to make the determination of guilt or innocence?

blah.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


10 posted 07-07-2005 02:14 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

LeeJ

I share many of your feelings.  But I can't agree with what seems to be your conclusion.

You can't help all men by doing only what is best for some of them.  You help all men by doing what is best for all of them: that means defending all men, the learned and the lewd, the good and the evil.  The whole human race is our whole human family.  Not just the good men.  They all deserve love and salvation, and their life and worth defended.  When a man does evil, that is when he most needs help the most.  You can't help him by hating him.  You can't help anyone else by hating him either.  You only hate, and put one more shape of hate into this world, and one more wrong example that he and or other men may follow.  It is never moral to work against humans themselves and hate humans.  It is forever moral though to work against humans' evil and hate the evils humans do because you love all humans, and know they may do better.  The more you hate evil, because you will love and defend all men, so will other men.    But the more you have unsympathy and hate, rage and revenge,  at men because of the evil they do, again, so will other men too.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (07-07-2005 05:40 PM).]

LeeJ
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11 posted 07-07-2005 07:37 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Ess, thanks so much for your feedback, and I do, honestly understand what your saying, in addition, understand your heart, a good one at that.  

If you knew me, as my friends and family do, it is not in my nature to hate, matter of fact, most say, they are amazed at how much I can endure...but without defending my identity...I've gotta say this...

There must be rules and guidelines to defend human life...without rules, everything becomes chaotic and corrupt...yes, I do and have come on very strong about this subject...b/c I'm very passonate about it, perhaps because I know personally what these arbitrations can do to someones life...

No one but no one, has the right to abduct, harm, abuse, molest, or kill another...and that rule also applies to my friends family and people I love.  

This country has become laxed with abiding by rules, society seems to feel rules do not apply to them...

Again and again, it becomes an issue of a great lack of education on society's part...meaning, morals and respect for another human being...be it a neighbor playing loud radios, letting their pets run free, kids riding around in cars, with rap music so loud, it shakes your windows, and so on.  Its a slow decline of respect, respect for rules and so forth and it filters down within society corroding and reaking havoc.

I'm sorry Ess, but I cannot love a person who abuses me...harms me, deliberately molests me or anyone I know.  I do feel sorry for them...but...I feel way more sorry for the children that are being abducted...and take it very personal b/c it's very close to home here in my world.  
Ya know Ess, in many different ways, we've all had bad things happen to us, but it doesn't excuse violating someone else's life because of your past.  To me, what that says is....it was ok for Joseph Duncan to do what he did to Shasta?  

He should have not been out on the streets in the first place, he was a convicted rapist.  What we did, as a society, was give him, another opportunity to ruin someone elses life...and it is, at this time, very possible, that he took the life of Shasta's little brother???  His blood is or should be on our hands, as a community, we are all responsible, b/c we're not demanding the laws be changed to protect the innocent!  People should be outrages, disgusted, ashamed at this outbreak of child molestation...!!!!

I'm not suggesting we hate people, but, if you put Shasta against her assailant, I'd pick her in a heartbeat...and demand he be put away for the rest of his life.

You talk about love, Ess, what about Shasta...have you seen the video of her, walking around in that store, have you any idea what she had to endure, some of which no one will ever know but her...what happens to her now? Was she made to watch as her brother took his last breath...overnight, this child's life, will never be the same...ever...and I hate to think of the repercussions...

I believe from my heart and total being, that when someone harms another they've broken a very spiritual fiber in that persons life...and they need to be seperated from society, as they've now proven, they are a menace to not only society, but to themselves and can contribute nothing to the welfare of human life.

Yes, I feel sorry for them, but feel greater remorse for the victim...

I hear there is a new movie out, about a sex offender who moves into a quiet suburban community...and I will tell you with my whole heart, if that movie trys in any way shape or form, to make you feel sorry for the abductor, I'm going to literally vomit.

Do you have any idea, how many sex offenders and murderers are on the loose out there?

Ess, I thank you for your ideas on this, but also sincerely ask you to reasearch this further, and talk to people who have indeed been violated and had their whole lives turned around b/c of a family member who couldn't control himself...who probably was a victim of child abuse himself/herself...Well Ess, I can tell you honesty and from my heart...I was...but that doesn't give me any right to abduct, abuse, sexually assult, physically hit or try to gain revenge by hurting anyone else.

Again, we've all in some way shape or form, endured hardships in our lives...but there are more law abiding citizens, then there are criminals! One wrong does not make a right...understand?

Ess, I tell you with my heart, I pray, the states come together, and put these people away for good...and I'm very dissappointed with the religions, that turn their heads to those in their faith, who have abducted and molested children...and insist that these people also be dealt with, instead the church protects them, which allows them to attack another and another, and the disease will continue to flourish.

Ess, you have a good heart, but I'm sorry, I can't agree with you, and will never be able to change my stand on this.

I don't believe we were given life, to take it away, and to me, in my way of thinking, molesting a child, man, or woman, takes life away, or certainly destroys quality of life...for not only them, but their families as well....

it's a trickle down event, which violates the right to be safe and free...

Sincerely
Lee J.



All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Edmund Burke

  

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-07-2005 12:06 PM).]

JesusChristPose
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since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


12 posted 07-08-2005 10:29 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

I can't provide to you any thoughts on this subject matter without any particulars about the subject.

"I have gone away. The bed is cold and empty. Trees bend their boughs toward the earth. And nighttime birds float as black faces."

Juju
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since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams


13 posted 07-08-2005 11:12 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I Think it is fair to charge guilty poeple with part of the costs.  Make them repay society.  As to cutting of there "you know whats"... The sexual urge will be gone but the urge to hurt will still be there and they need to lock them up and get therapy.  I have a guy who kinda kreeply follows me around.  It's not fun. I don't think men understand the fear us wemon have of helplessness.  Not being able to do what we want and that my friend is far far far crueller then...


-Juju

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


14 posted 07-09-2005 11:02 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“Billy Graham's Daughter Arrested for Alleged Domestic Abuse

Virginia Graham Foreman, 59, spent a night in jail after the July 1 confrontation outside a shopping center, police said. She was charged with misdemeanor domestic abuse and released the following day.

Three witnesses told police that Foreman pushed her husband and grabbed him by the throat, authorities said.”

A Volusia County judge who presided over Foreman's first court appearance said Chad Foreman  told police that witnesses had "just misunderstood what was going on between them."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161994,00.html

JesusChristPose
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since 06-21-2005
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Pittsburgh, Pa


15 posted 07-10-2005 12:30 AM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

So what?
Juju
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since 12-29-2003
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In your dreams


16 posted 07-10-2005 03:57 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I think the Idea is good.  Perhaps they will expand it to all perpatraitors.

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


17 posted 07-15-2005 11:02 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

John....guess it all comes down to who you are and what influence you have...

Now, if I were to push you down, proceed to grab you by the throat, how would that be translated by it's on lookers, then, reverse the situation, you grabbing me, by the throat and pushing me down?  You see, it all depends on the situation, laws no longer apply to one on one...do they?
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


18 posted 07-15-2005 01:18 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't know what you're saying.  The law doesn't especially care who does the deed, they care about what the deed is, and respond to it as appropriatly as they may in the best interest and protection of all that may be present.   There are always specific things about the individuals, such as how much they look like a threat, how angry they are, if they have a weapon, or anything that may be used like a weapon.  But there is no room whatsoever for delay and neglect based on such things as who the person is, sex, race, age, etc.   If the person is doing wrong, they are responded to by rightful intervention, that means legally and without discrimination.  
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


19 posted 07-15-2005 02:37 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I am responding to the article John linked us to and being sarcastic about the outcome

Ess, what you describe is a perfect world, but unfortunatly not always the case, wish it were...I really really do.
 
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