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Passions in Poetry

Morning After Mourning

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 06-12-2005 01:01 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


“As we know from Freud’s 1915 essay, the completion of the mourning process
involves a progressive detachment from the lost object.  ‘Mourning has a quite
specific psychologic task to perform,’ he explained in Totem and Taboo,’ ‘its
function is to detach the survivors’ memories and hopes from the dead.’  But
this ‘resolution of mourning’ requires the non-idealization of the departed person.”

14-18, Understanding the Great War
Stéphane Audoin-Rouzeau and Annette Becker


“‘resolution of mourning’ requires the non-idealization of the departed person.”

Yes, he/she is “gone”* and he/she was wonderful, but not that wonderful
that I can not go on without him/her to a life that is not perpetual grieving.
Is that how one can take this?

Or is it as it is said: that “pain is forgettable”, so that, if allowed, time
itself with distance and forgetfulness will heal the wound?


* I am deliberately allowing and wanting a wider context than the reference source
would imply, (including the sense of loss caused by a failed relationship).

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


1 posted 06-12-2005 05:56 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Nodding here.

There are so many variables in mourning that I don't believe one set of rules can aptly describe the "process" of healing.

Familial relationship for example. It's quite a different experience to lose a parent than it is a sibling. The nightmare of loss of a child is not even a subject I care to broach, since I do not understand, nor do I ever care to even entertain that possibility. I can't even let my mind go there.

There is also the circumstances of the death. I was just discussing this with my sister, at our shared birthday party, ironically enough. My father died of lung cancer, and it was a swift death, considering how long some cancer patients have been known to struggle. He was diagnosed, and died eight months later. (I think.) But I was shielded by my family from  seeing his debilitation and the majority of his suffering. You could say, (and I did) that what my family did out love (I was Daddy's baby yanno) kept me in denial a long time. But he did send for me, the day before his death, and we had some time to talk a little, and if there can be a blessing to such a situation it's that our last words spoken to each other were "I love you."

The idealization part that you mentioned was and remains easy for me. He was idealized while he was living in my eyes, so that is very easy for me to continue. I do look back and understand his humanity too, and accepting his helps me to forgive my own imperfections as part of the human condition.

I realize too, I was very lucky to have had him as such a major influence in my life.

One week after my father died, my father-in-law died as well. Quite unexpectedly too, of heat stroke after cutting the grass here in the grueling heat of a July summer in Louisiana.

It was quite a different experience for my husband, and although you would think we'd bond tighter having shared the same loss that wasn't the case. A sudden death did not allow my husband to say the things we all hope we will be granted before we lose a loved one. He was not prepared for the anger he felt (and I was not prepared for his anger to be displaced at me)

The death of a parent is the loss of stability, as I said to (Stephanos, I believe) my husband and I lost our "safe places", and there is pain compounded with anger as we both addressed the loss of our sense of immortality as well.

Here's the part that no one seems to understand when I talk about it, so I quit trying to explain it. But even through all the pain, the loss of a parent can be oddly "freeing." No matter how wonderful the relationship, no matter how dysfunctional, the presence of parents in our lives is a judgemental eye, and it takes a long time to acknowledge that there is a part of us that feels some sense of relief (please understand how long it took for me to even get to the point that I could acknowledge that) and that relief tends to stem from the removal of a standard that we feel we must strive for. In my particular case, the parental standard was a pretty high hurdle to jump. My father believed that "to whom much is given, much is expected".

My mother went through a completely different process of course. She lost her lifemate, her comrade, and she felt betrayed by all the world. She remains in mourning, not just for losing half of herself, but for the death of her dreams.

And forgive me, as I need to gather my thoughts a bit before I can even go on to discuss losing siblings, friends, and what I consider an inbetween category, "adopted family".

sigh

"Process" sounds so cold, but it's the only proper word I think.

More later.
latearrival
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since 03-21-2003
Posts 4407
Florida


2 posted 06-13-2005 04:46 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Huan Yi, as for a failed relationship. I cannot answer to that. My feeling is that a good relationship must have given something good to keep with you. For whatever reason the relationship turns, there is not much you can do but accept it and go on. Keep the good, learn from it and go on. Best to you. martyjo


And Serenity I do indeed understand the "freeing " feeling one receives after a parent’s death. I experienced this strongly after my mother died. (I was fortunate to have been with her during her last week. I stayed in the hospital until it was over.) You are no longer the dependent child. Because lets face it,  we  will always be dependent on our parents for validation. We do not always receive it and keep trying. So now we are, no matter what age it be, no longer a child. What we are from here on is up to us alone. We need to change our thinking from child of, to grown adult in charge. Thanks for sharing that.    martyjo
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


3 posted 06-13-2005 09:11 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Siblings.

I promise you, if you have four, there is one that was dangerous. Keith was like that.

He woulda liked to believe himself the blacksheep of the family--the only problem was that the women were born gray.

But he was woolly dark alright, and my other brother, is still white. (Sometimes, that one, he smells of bleach.)

And I can tell Keith's story now, since he's dead.

He used to run the "borderline"--meaning he had the mexican connection pretty much tied up, and he was an herbal king.

I went to one (he had a few) of his apartments once--there was a statue outside his door, life sized Venus, stolen from a grave. (I was so appalled.) There was a sign accompanied, saying, "Push the buzzer for access." and there was no buzzer there.

He thought that was hilarious.

So we knocked.

He answered the door naked, almost, but no, he had some terry cloth wrapped around him when he realized it was me...

It was my first official concert and, he was in charge of me...Wow. (I still can't believe my mom let me...)

He rolled different herbs the way he thought that they should be described--yellowed wheat papers clad acapulco gold, and pink was red, columbian and in the middle of the room was a hideous bong, that I was not allowed to suckle, because I was too young, I guess.

But it was great, the way it was, and there was no passing of the doobs--nope--they just lit one and handed it to you and let you go your way with it. So I did...

I was amazed. Because to this day? Even with our last count at five thousand vinyls? I have never seen an album collection that matched his, and..? inhale... you had to know the order of, you had to know your music 'cause it was not arranged alphabetically, but by the tone and once, that old guy Chester really screwed 'em all when he did a four way tab times two and re-arranged it all, according to producers...um, we could find the Beatles and Motown....laugh. George Martin and Phil Spector, them we could find.

but anyhoo...

Keith? There was signs for George McGovern and I was shocked, but I'd had it kinda figured out, considering my Dad had thrown him out, the last time they talked politics.

You should know, I was thirteen, and why my mother allowed me there, I have no idea, but damn...shaking my head, I was on my way to the brand new Superdome and I was gonna see the Allman Brothers.

I could not believe my luck.

(Um...neither could his nasty friends)

But actually I felt at home; they were pretty much at ease with who they were and pretty much at ease with whomever I might become...I thought it was all "cool". (and that's when cool was spelled that way)

"Wow" I said, and I took a pink cigarette, thinking that their albums needed me, to fix them, I started fiddling then, not knowing they were laughing at my naivete', but nodding saying to my brother, "she's cool."

I guess because I sang Cass Elliot and knew enough not to call her "Mama" and I knew all the words to "Turtle Blues" and I knew who Big Mama Thornton was and all the words to everything my brother played on his guitar.

In harmony.

Jesus Christ Superstar..."try not to get worried, try not to turn on to, problems that uspet you noooooooooo"

So yeah, that's how I remembered my brother, and that's why I went to find him, even after my Dad thought he might be dead.

It was twenty years later after this scene I described and I had to bum the twenty bucks from my Dad to file the search request with the Salvation Army, and I remembered my brother, and I told my Dad I missd him and that I found some people who would look for him cheap...and my Dad gave me the money and looked at me somber, saying, just promise me one thing:

"they don't call your mother"

and I realized then, my Dad figgered my brother was dead.

So losing my brother first?

Was kind of an expectation.

nod.

We figured it would happen that way. So much so? They bought a burial plot.

How odd though, that my brother is with me.

*shrug*

But they were right.

He was the first of us to go.

He never wanted to be filed away anyhow, and yanno?

He told me once that he didn't believe in God until he saw Yosemite National Park.

After that? He said he couldn't NOT believe.

smile...I have his ashes and I do believe a pilgramage is called for....

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


4 posted 06-13-2005 10:06 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Serenity - take those ashes to Yosemite.  

John...as for the feelings one experiences in a failed relationship, especially when it has been idealized...

It is very much like a small death.  Seriously.  And there is a mourning over "what could have been" and the "dreams that didn't come true" that goes with it - for some folks.  Unfortunately, and especially if children resulted from the union, most would say that there was never time to mourn because of the dealing done over custody and its inherent problems [when people allow to "use" children as pawns] - so some, indeed, never get to the mourning stage because they're too busy fighting for what they believe "belongs to them".

I would trust to say that after the initial first marriage, subsequent marriages are taken with a much larger grain of salt, a "there's the door" factuality that either one can leave, and yes, I would even venture to say that defenses / walls / safeguards [even without pre-nups] are put up so that we are NOT hurt "as much" the second [third, fourth, fifth] time around. I mean, why WOULD one want to inflict THAT kind of pain on themselves again, anyway?

Of course, relationships can fool you - and it is known that some couples ARE much more fortunate in their choice of life's companion the second, third...even fifth time around [this, I have on knowledge of in fact, not fiction, and not me, but a loved one...]

But I'm speaking from my experience, solely. I do remember the pain in the gut, the sense of loss, the question of what did I do wrong? Why did it happen to us? How could I have made it better. It wasn't until someone pointed out that it most definitely takes TWO to make a marriage work, that I realized it wasn't all my fault, and that I had not died, nor had the mate - and that we both truly deserved better in life. I quit hating him then, actually, forgave him and silently wished him the best.  I kept my kids in touch with him as much as they wanted, but he hid behind his own pain of the divorce, and ignored them for the most part.

His loss...
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


5 posted 06-13-2005 10:24 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I was just about to deal with the loss of Cathy when I read:

"John...as for the feelings one experiences in a failed relationship, especially when it has been idealized...

It is very much like a small death.  Seriously"

(maybe I should bury the hubby first?)
Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


6 posted 06-13-2005 10:34 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


I would nod?

But I'm afraid you would take me seriously...

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


7 posted 06-13-2005 11:05 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

*chuckle*
I thought you'd like that...
Cloud 9
Senior Member
since 11-05-2004
Posts 988
Ca


8 posted 06-13-2005 02:03 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

Ooooh, Oooooh, can we bury mine too????

"But I'm speaking from my experience, solely. I do remember the pain in the gut, the sense of loss, the question of what did I do wrong? Why did it happen to us? How could I have made it better. It wasn't until someone pointed out that it most definitely takes TWO to make a marriage work, that I realized it wasn't all my fault, and that I had not died, nor had the mate - and that we both truly deserved better in life. I quit hating him then, actually, forgave him and silently wished him the best.  I kept my kids in touch with him as much as they wanted, but he hid behind his own pain of the divorce, and ignored them for the most part."

I completely agree AND mine is doing the same thing. I think some of these men get pulled from P.E. class and are taught in a secret class how to be like this.
***now, notice I said SOME men**** grin.

timothysangel1973
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Senior Member
since 12-03-2001
Posts 1749
Never close enough


9 posted 06-13-2005 10:35 PM       View Profile for timothysangel1973   Email timothysangel1973   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit timothysangel1973's Home Page   View IP for timothysangel1973

Wasn't gonna reply to this cause as of this moment in time, I have lost neither parent, or my one sibling.

The reason that I am answering... Serenity, your words gave me chills, and I started thinking really hard about what you said up there.

My ideas about mourning...

My parents were divorced when I was 5, up until my 12th birthday my brother and I were swapped back and forth every other weekend and this made me angry as hell as a child because I couldn't understand why they had done what they had done.

Around about the time I turned 13 my mom just couldn't take "me" anymore, I was rebellious and hated her cause my daddy said I should.  I hated her new husband even though he was good to us, I just hated everything period.

My mom called my daddy at work and told him "Come get her, she's yours"

He did... and she fell onto her knees in the hallway balled up into a fetal position and cried on the phone with her mother cause she had lost her child to the one man in the world that had stolen every ounce of energy to fight that she had.

See - daddy knew his game, and he played it well.  He played with my mind, and in turn I drove her crazy.  I can still remember him bringing us home and saying... "Y'all give her hell next week."

Then he'd laugh and drive off.

And we obeyed.  

I lived with my daddy for 5 years and I moved out on my own, got pregnant, got married, got pregnant again, got divorced, got married again, got pregnant again - and guess what?

He still hates her, and she returns the favor most of the time.

The reason that I felt I had something to share on this thread was because...

I love my daddy, and something happened just today that reminded me why I left home so early.  It was always easy for him to hurt me and then not feel bad about it.  Everyone says to get tough, but that is so hard to do for me where he is concerned.  I survived everything I wrote up there, and more... yet he can still bring me to tears.

I sit around and wonder... "how much will I miss him when he's gone?"

I mean, I know that I will, but will I finally feel free to live my life without thinking that there is someone lurking in the shadows ready to pounce as soon as I make a mistake?

He is far too judgemental of everything in my life from choice of husbands to how I raise my kids.  We went through some pretty rough stuff a while back (my family, hubby, me and kids) and while I know that I should tell him... I can't because I know that he would do something rash and ridiculus to hurt us all mainly me.

He fusses at us because we never come to see him, yet when we are there he fusses at us the entire time and just tears my nerves up to the point that I usually leave in tears.

I tell my daddy that I love him all the time, yet I wish that I could build the guts and courage to tell him what is really in my heart before he dies.  He hurts me, and belittles me, and makes me feel like such a failure all the time, and I know me well enough to know that when he IS gone... I will feel like I failed at giving him the chance to explain why he has made me feel like nothing all my life.

I pray that he lives a long time, yet at the same time I pray that God will give me the courage and the strength to "grow up" and tell him how I feel before we put him into the ground.

I hate feeling this seperation between us, yet he won't let me live my life without breaking it down in front of me everytime we talk.  

I have made many attempts to talk to him, yet I chicken out right before.  So, I wonder, will his death be a relief for me, or will I spend the rest of my life (if he goes before me) wishing that I had said what I never did for lack of courage.

Thanks for letting me share

Tima

***Came back to add...here are a few writes that I have written, one for each of my parents, just in case I never get to tell them what it is that I so want to say.***


Once a Little Girl - For Daddy


Letting Go - For Mama
Sunshine
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since 06-25-99
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Listening to every heart


10 posted 06-13-2005 10:39 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Yes, Tima - I'm afraid his death WILL be your biggest release...and you may not know what to do without someone emotionally, mentally controlling you.

Oh honey...

If your Mom is still around...

she needs you.
timothysangel1973
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Senior Member
since 12-03-2001
Posts 1749
Never close enough


11 posted 06-13-2005 10:50 PM       View Profile for timothysangel1973   Email timothysangel1973   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit timothysangel1973's Home Page   View IP for timothysangel1973

Thank you Sunshine, and just an added note -
Mama and I are the best of friends now that I'm all grown up.  We have surely had our bad moments and went for years and didn't speak.  But, we do now, and we have agreed to let the past go along with all the heartaches that are housed there.  We have this brand new baby girl and it has really brought us closer.

I talk to her everyday as we are both MSN'ers and we always fill each other in on the other ones life.  She lives in another state now (her hubby had to move her away so my dad would leave her alone)

His anger has caused our seperation many, many times.

Can't I love them both?

Not in his eyes.

Sad, yet true - and a reality that I live with everyday.

Thanks again

Tima
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


12 posted 06-13-2005 11:19 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I normally don't do this, but here goes:

Memory

Though written prior to this topic, it's an answer to this same topic.
latearrival
Member Elite
since 03-21-2003
Posts 4407
Florida


13 posted 06-18-2005 01:12 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Huan Yi, You have started an interesting thread. May I address Tima?
Tima your letter to your Mom on Mother's day was beautiful.I had read it when posted and stated that. But you do have the freedom to let go of your Dad. You owe him nothing. His love only hurt you and your mother. He does not know how to love. You can not change him. It is not you,it is his problem. You deserve the freedom to fully enjoy the new relationship you and your mother have made together.  
I was so fortunate to have had a Dad who loved his family. He loved my Mom the most and it showed. What a wonderful gift to us, his children to have seen that love.You saw none for you or her. Let him go.You can see him and tell him you are going to stop seeing him. I doubt if he would respond. But you will be able to start living a fuller life. Just my feeling on this. Yours to decide. Hoping others will join in to sort of give you the "Permission" you seem to need to cut the cord. best to you martyjo
 
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