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Passions in Poetry

On freedom of religion (Three points, what do youthink?

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Juju
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0 posted 03-30-2005 12:59 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju


Well this is not a hot topic, but yet it is importantant, whether or not you are a spiritual person or not.  I have three veiws on it from what I get. I am intrested in what others have to say

Conservative: Freedom of religion is the ability to practice any religion with out government interference. When the government interferes, it prevents this freedom

Libral:  Poeple should have the freedom from the influence of religion on to on another.  The government should have no role in religion and should not influence others with religion

Radical: Religious freedom is the freedom to practice religion, even if that means one would get special treatment from the government to have this freedom.  The government should not stop any one from this freedom, and to not allow one person to practice some rituals is an act against this freedom.

Please keep in mind that these are just names of catagories, not implying toward political agenda or such. I know I talked about this before, but I am going to aproach it like this.

Thank you
Juju
Not A Poet
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1 posted 03-30-2005 02:21 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Here is what our constitution says about it.
quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

The rest of the first ammendment relates to freedom of speech.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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2 posted 03-30-2005 03:23 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

"but yet it is importantant, whether or not you are a spiritual person or not"

is it?

important?

and to whom?

then of course I would like spiritual defined...(I think perspective has a say as well)

  


"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Juju
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since 12-29-2003
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3 posted 03-30-2005 06:08 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Sure...
spiritual adj:pertaining to the highestmoral or intelictual qualities of man; sacred or religous; super natural.

-The new international Webters Pocket Dictionary trident press international 2001 edition. copy right 2001

and this fredom of religion effects every one in this country. the constitution is very broad and poeple interpret it in the three ways I listed. maybe there is anouther way.  I am more or less intrested in what you have to say.  I don't mind if you nit pick at the points, but my veiw is not stated. so you can ask, you can still nit pick, but There must be a point were one person says, well I gues I intrepet something this way or I think this group does this or ...
well you get the point.

Juju

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Susan Caldwell
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4 posted 03-31-2005 09:17 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Juju,

My intent was certainly not to “nit pick” but rather to establish that although there may very well be a Webster’s dictionary definition for spiritual it can be a very personal thing for each individual.  I may think of being spiritual as being a part of organized religion (I do not) or I may think for me that it involves burning candles each day and paying homage to the earth.  I may decide that an earthworm is my savior.  Is that being spiritual?  For me it would be if that is what I believed.  

The dictionary says “Highest moral”.  Who or what dictates what that is?  I may think there is nothing wrong with couple swapping.  The next person may think it’s immoral.  I might think swapping partners is a very spiritual thing.  

Freedom of religion is a wonderful thing, to me.  I have studied a lot of different organized religions and the research is fascinating to say the least.  I have a lot of respect for each one.  I however am agnostic.  I believe there is a higher power, just not sure what it/he/she is.  I believe we live several lives.  Do I say a prayer when I see an ambulance or car accident?  Yep sure do.  It’s the only time I pray.  And I would never, ever dream of praying for myself.  Am I spiritual then?

Maybe, maybe not depending on who you talk to.  

Two statements you made are what brought me to where I am.

First, you say your view isn’t stated, however you said, "but yet it is important, whether or not you are a spiritual person or not" that to me, sounds like a view…..which left me a bit confused.

Second, you said, “the constitution is very broad and people interpret it in the three ways I listed”

That statement is pretty cut and dry.  How do you know how I interpret it?  (This is not directed towards you personally).

Let me reiterate, I am not nit picking but rather trying to discuss and bring about a bigger picture with more color.  It’s not black and white and as long as we have such a diverse culture in this world it never will be and for that I am most thankful.  



"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Juju
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5 posted 03-31-2005 10:18 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Well, I know poeple interpret it differently. What The diffenition of spiritaulness and all means is simply what you make out of it.  I am not critisizing freedom of religion.  I just want to hear other veiw points.  If there is anouther view I wanted to hear about it. I aknowlaged that There could be other points in that. I am not going to fight over nit picks.  ALL I WANT ARE POEPLES OPINION AND PHILOSOPHIES. The difinition of religionis very vague as well as most of the constitution, but it is like that for a reason. The constsitution was made to be interpretted as times change.  I just wanted others in put on the different philosophies of freedom of religion not freedom of religion its self.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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Florida


6 posted 03-31-2005 10:37 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

“Well this is not a hot topic, but yet it is important, whether or not you are a spiritual person or not.  I have three views on it from what I get. I am interested in what others have to say”

That’s what you said in the original post, which led me to believe you wanted what others have to say about whether or not you (them) are a spiritual person.  I must have understood you wrong because in your response you say all you want is:

  “I just wanted others input on the different philosophies of freedom of religion not freedom of religion its self”

Which is completely different and a bit ambiguous to me.   So I must have misunderstood your intent.

As for:

“ALL I WANT ARE POEPLES OPINION AND PHILOSOPHIES”

I thought that is what I did in my second response.  I told you my opinion of several things and gave examples.  I am not sure what you really wanted.  

I am sorry I didn’t give you the answers you wanted but I will bow out and let someone else try.  




"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Juju
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7 posted 03-31-2005 06:51 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

well, I guess you talked about religion instead of freedom of religion, but you know whst that is fine too I guess. freedom of religion is just kinda broard so I kinda wanted to discuss it.  I thought it was intresting and not actually offensive.  

Here is the question OI want: what does freedom of religion meen to you?What is your opinion on the three veiw points on it. IS there another point that I missed?

I wonder if that is better.

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Michelle_loves_Mike
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8 posted 03-31-2005 08:04 PM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

While I'm sure you will get so many responses,both short, and book length,,,,I figured I'd shout out an opinion, not that they are often listened to here...but...

In my humble opine, there are as many governmental labels to describe "religious rights, as there are religions, not just the three you've listed....someone will always try to push their beliefs onto others, it's the nature of the beast.


No matter what stand is taken, as it pertains to the government,,,they still try and push us into a neat little herd.
I.E. Passing rules that the 10 commandments can't be displayed in a courthouse and no prayer in school.

While, as person that leans toward the dark side,  I personaly have no use for christianity or it's beliefs, I am, and always have been, a firm believer in the freedom of religion,,,,be it lil Jonny giving a moments silent prayer before the start of the school day, a Whirling Dirvish, or the fella that treks into his house of worship on holidays......

This country was pretty well founded by folks bailing from other countries, to follow thier beliefs in peace, without the finger of government pushing them the way they see fit.

I guess all's I'm trying to say, in my none too elloquent way is...the self claimed labels the big fellas sport mean diddly, cause, in the end, one way or another, they all try to push a belief on us all, even if it's the simple act of pushing others to change their views to give us the freedom of ours.

Thanks for listening,,,hope I didn't offend anyone with my rambling.

[This message has been edited by Michelle_loves_Mike (04-01-2005 07:50 AM).]

Juju
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9 posted 04-01-2005 12:46 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Ah yes.  It is a good thought. And I agree.  That is funny huh? Lately the libral end of religous freedom has been going on.

But I think the radical is intresting too, There has been that going on since the begining of our country and the libraol hasn't caught on until the last 50 years. personally I am toward the conservative end, but still. fun to talk about.
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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10 posted 04-01-2005 10:29 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Freedom of religion is freedom of religion.  Not Catholic, Protestant, Wiccan, Satanism, Muslim, et al, but freedom for every religion out there, even Aetheisism, be it a personal belief that you are the Antichrist or Christ, or belief in a Higher Power, or God, or Satyr, or Nature.  One troubling thing I've seen over the past decades is the 'progressive movement' trying to denote what is and isn't religion, especially the ACLU.  Until recently, they even professed that Freedom of Speech was the first and therefor most important freedom in the Constitution, until some PiPsters and others pointed out their fallacy in reason.  Yet still they fight on, this legal society supposedly there to be for protection of Civil Liberties, but seeming to be more and more for oppresion of the same, so long as you aren't 'religious', meaning Christian or Jewish.

Those three stances on Freedom of Religion seem to denote Christianity and Judahism, not Muslim, Shinto, or any other non-Judeo-Christian faith, although Islam would technically fall under that due to the influences Mohammed experienced during his life with his uncle and aunt in Mecca, a fairly peaceful blending of early Christian, Judahic, and tribal religions before he became the Warrior-Prophet of Islam.  The similarities between the Pentateuch (first five books of the Old Testament) and the Koran aren't just happy coincidence.

Keep in mind that 'religion' and 'spirituality', although related, are not identical.  'Religion' is technically a methodology for living, dictated from an outside or higher source.  Veganism, under that definition, would be a religion.
Juju
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since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams


11 posted 04-03-2005 03:29 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I under stand that spiritualk and religous are different.  

I am going to name something, this will be the "non progressive" time in the united states. INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR NEW PROBLEMS every one looks at old problems and tries to make up for "bad" and then we're back to a perfered group of poeple, religion,and financhually.
 
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